Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Kingsway_fan]

we really needed scottie tonight and he was terrible

Seeing more of this than one would imagine... both our two highest paid players are not living up to those contracts atm, and that's probably the most disappointing aspect of this season so far .. along with Dick.. the so called young "core" is quite mediocre....

Now that we are developing a good bench, it's the starters that is a concern.

Let's draft a good one this offseason and look for consolidation trades...

[tsherkin]

I'm getting tired of these awful shooting nights from Scottie. I'm giving him one more season after this one before I give up on him as a potential first or second option (that potential is already hanging on by just a thread).

I think he has successfully demonstrated that he doesn't have the tools to be a first option scorer quite handily at this point.

[HumbleRen]

I think that BI trade signals that the FO is aware Scottie is more like Lowry than he is Kawhi. Not so much their play style but more so as in Scottie’s at his best when he doesn’t have to focus on shot creation.

He’ll still get 20/8/7 in his sleep but his shot diet will be more of a play finisher rather than being a shot creator. He’ll be a much more efficient and a better defender with Ingram shouldering the shot creation burden.

It was a worthwhile experiment to let Scottie try his hand at it but it’s pretty evident that he has too many physical limitations to be a #1 option and that he’s just not tall/big enough to get away with not having a 3 point shot.

RJ has done an admirable job at trying to help shoulder the offensive burden but he’s still a playfinishing wing, not a shot creating wing. It’ll just never be enough vs what Ingram brings to the table.

It’ll be an interesting offseason/draft.

[TravisScott55]

Need a scorer in this draft desperately.

[WaltFrazier]

Not to excuse Scottie but I can't get over, after two Memphis games, how big JJJ is. He makes Scottie look so small, dwarfs him. I noticed the same when they played NYK, he's much bigger than OG too. How is this guy not a C in the modern NBA?

[XTC]

I'm getting tired of these awful shooting nights from Scottie. I'm giving him one more season after this one before I give up on him as a potential first or second option (that potential is already hanging on by just a thread).

I think he has successfully demonstrated that he doesn't have the tools to be a first option scorer quite handily at this point.

The writing is on the wall with Scottie. I don't think he can be the best player on a championship squad, but I do think he can be the 2nd/3rd best guy on a championship level team.

He's not a bad player at all, but he's not a #1 option either. He's going to get you 20/8/6 on average efficiency(hopefully), and 2.5 stocks in a standard season. In years where our team is good, he's going to get allstar consideration. His ROY lust has worn off, and hes going to be judged from his play from now on.

I think the front office sees this aswell, or they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Ingram. Let him focus on the things he's good at which is playmaking, defense, and being an opportunistic scorer. He has played like this his entire career going back to highschool. To ask him to flip a switch, change his mindset, and get a scorers mentality isn't going to happen.

Scottie Barnes is a bigger version of Andre Iguodala (the young Philly version before he gave up on scoring).

[HumbleRen]

Not to excuse Scottie but I can't get over, after two Memphis games, how big JJJ is. He makes Scottie look so small, dwarfs him. I noticed the same when they played NYK, he's much bigger than OG too. How is this guy not a C in the modern NBA?

He’s a legit 7 footer. He’s just a horrible rebounder to ever be a real C. Think he averages like 5 a game.

[tsherkin]

The writing is on the wall with Scottie.

He's not a bad player at all, but he's not a #1 option either. He's going to get you 20/8/6 on average efficiency, and 2.5 stocks in a standard season.

If he was scoring on average efficiency, the discussion around him would be very different. He's maintaining nearly 5% below league average this year, a TS% comparable to his 2023 performance. He's been a profound waste of skin as a scorer this year. Fortunately, a) we are hopefully tanking and b) his playmaking has been able to off-set that some, but HOOOOOOF, he's been bad. At this kind of volume, he has yet to show us any real evidence that he can be even an average efficiency guy.

I think the front office sees this aswell, or they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Ingram. Let him focus on the things he's good at which is playmaking, defense, and being an opportunistic scorer. He has played like this his entire career going back to highschool. To ask him to flip a switch, change his mindset, and get a scorers mentality isn't going to happen.

100%.

We are properly deploying RJ now, and it's helped a lot. If we can do the same for Scottie by shaping his possession types and lowering his volume, one would hope that should help him out a fair bit as well. He does enough pretty well like defense and rebounding and passing that he's good to have around, but we need to deploy him properly, too.

[PushDaRock]

I'm getting tired of these awful shooting nights from Scottie. I'm giving him one more season after this one before I give up on him as a potential first or second option (that potential is already hanging on by just a thread).

I think he has successfully demonstrated that he doesn't have the tools to be a first option scorer quite handily at this point.

this Ingram move likely tells us that the FO believes the same

[tsherkin]

this Ingram move likely tells us that the FO believes the same

Which is weird, because he doesn't have the chops, nor the availability, to be a first-option scorer either. And he's proved that over a much longer stretch of time.

[Raps in 4]

I'm getting tired of these awful shooting nights from Scottie. I'm giving him one more season after this one before I give up on him as a potential first or second option (that potential is already hanging on by just a thread).

I think he has successfully demonstrated that he doesn't have the tools to be a first option scorer quite handily at this point.

this Ingram move likely tells us that the FO believes the same

Ingram is not a first option.

[PushDaRock]

this Ingram move likely tells us that the FO believes the same

Which is weird, because he doesn't have the chops, nor the availability, to be a first-option scorer either. And he's proved that over a much longer stretch of time.

It's a scorer by committee approach. Ingram, Scottie, RJ, IQ and Gradey all can go for 20 any night. Then we have Jak, Ochai as higher end efficient role players, some interesting depth pieces on our roster and it's pretty interesting whether it can work.

[tsherkin]

It's a scorer by committee approach. Ingram, Scottie, RJ, IQ and Gradey all can go for 20 any night.

Yeah but no one cares if they can't do it at a level of efficiency which keeps us competitive. And if we have RJ rocking league average, Ingram doing the same, Scottie beneath and Gradey variable from night to night based on his 3pt shooting, that's not a good approach to offense.

Like, we're setting ourselves up with significant barriers to offensive success if that's the plan, and that's BEFORE factoring in Ingram's poor availability.

[PushDaRock]

It's a scorer by committee approach. Ingram, Scottie, RJ, IQ and Gradey all can go for 20 any night.

Yeah but no one cares if they can't do it at a level of efficiency which keeps us competitive. And if we have RJ rocking league average, Ingram doing the same, Scottie beneath and Gradey variable from night to night based on his 3pt shooting, that's not a good approach to offense.

Like, we're setting ourselves up with significant barriers to offensive success if that's the plan, and that's BEFORE factoring in Ingram's poor availability.

The hope at least is that having multiple scoring threats like this out on the floor makes us difficult to guard because we can go to whoever has the mismatch. We have also seen RJ's scoring efficiency get a bump in Darko's offensive system with the better shot diet, so I think they are hoping to do the same with Ingram likely by replacing some of his tougher mid range shots with 3's instead.

[tsherkin]

The hope at least is that having multiple scoring threats like this out on the floor makes us difficult to guard because we can go to whoever has the mismatch. We have also seen RJ's scoring efficiency get a bump in Darko's offensive system with the better shot diet, so I think they are hoping to do the same with Ingram likely by replacing some of his tougher mid range shots with 3's instead.

Yeah, I mean, WHEN he's out there, the 3pt shooting helps overall spacing. But his issue is more that he doesn't get to the rim enough, not that he needs to shoot more from 3. Yeah, replacing some of his long 2s with drives would be ideal, but we'll see. He is, like all our extant guys, a limited player. So it doesn't REALLY address the root issues we have with our offense. It's a patch at best, and that's when he is healthy.

[PushDaRock]

The hope at least is that having multiple scoring threats like this out on the floor makes us difficult to guard because we can go to whoever has the mismatch. We have also seen RJ's scoring efficiency get a bump in Darko's offensive system with the better shot diet, so I think they are hoping to do the same with Ingram likely by replacing some of his tougher mid range shots with 3's instead.

Yeah, I mean, WHEN he's out there, the 3pt shooting helps overall spacing. But his issue is more that he doesn't get to the rim enough, not that he needs to shoot more from 3. Yeah, replacing some of his long 2s with drives would be ideal, but we'll see. He is, like all our extant guys, a limited player. So it doesn't REALLY address the root issues we have with our offense. It's a patch at best, and that's when he is healthy.

He does have a career .322 FTR so he does get to the line fairly well outside of this season. If he was the fix to all our problems, we wouldn't have gotten him for the price we paid. Guys that aren't "limited" to some degree are basically never available.

[tsherkin]

He does have a career .322 FTR so he does get to the line fairly well outside of this season. If he was the fix to all our problems, we wouldn't have gotten him for the price we paid. Guys that aren't "limited" to some degree are basically never available.

Yes, he does get to the line well. It hasn't mattered because he doesn't get high-percentage looks much, though, which is why he's below-average inside the arc and his broader efficiency is lower than league average despite his shooting ability (mid-range, 3P and FT) and draw rate.

Your point about the reasons behind his availability are spot-on, no doubt, but they don't really stop me from not loving the acquisition. 7 years into his career, we know who he is. And that's a mediocre-efficiency guy who is never healthy. I don't love what that means for his utility to us going forward, even though he was comparatively cheap.

[Scase]

It's a scorer by committee approach. Ingram, Scottie, RJ, IQ and Gradey all can go for 20 any night.

Yeah but no one cares if they can't do it at a level of efficiency which keeps us competitive. And if we have RJ rocking league average, Ingram doing the same, Scottie beneath and Gradey variable from night to night based on his 3pt shooting, that's not a good approach to offense.

Like, we're setting ourselves up with significant barriers to offensive success if that's the plan, and that's BEFORE factoring in Ingram's poor availability.

No sir, I've been informed in the BI thread that if you put 3 mediocre inefficient scorers together, they magically become better and more efficient, it seems like 2 of them together doesn't do anything, but that 3rd one is the key. It's like the Triforce from Zelda, except instead of wisdom, power, and knowledge, it's mediocrity, inefficiency, and availability.

How can you doubt that logic?

[tsherkin]

No sir, I've been informed in the BI thread that if you put 3 mediocre inefficient scorers together, they magically become better and more efficient, it seems like 2 of them together doesn't do anything, but that 3rd one is the key. It's like the Triforce from Zelda, except instead of wisdom, power, and knowledge, it's mediocrity, inefficiency, and availability.

How can you doubt that logic?

I mean, I understand his point. Distributing the scoring load with better spacing may help some. And having someone else besides RJ who can draw fouls won't hurt, even if his broader efficiency is bleh (when he's on the floor, anyway).

I don't think he was presenting it as if we were suddenly gonna be a top-10 offense, which is of course why I had a dim, pessimistic view of the whole thing even before factoring in availability, but I think it's probably going to have ANY positive beneficial effect.

[Scase]

No sir, I've been informed in the BI thread that if you put 3 mediocre inefficient scorers together, they magically become better and more efficient, it seems like 2 of them together doesn't do anything, but that 3rd one is the key. It's like the Triforce from Zelda, except instead of wisdom, power, and knowledge, it's mediocrity, inefficiency, and availability.

How can you doubt that logic?

I mean, I understand his point. Distributing the scoring load with better spacing may help some. And having someone else besides RJ who can draw fouls won't hurt, even if his broader efficiency is bleh (when he's on the floor, anyway).

I don't think he was presenting it as if we were suddenly gonna be a top-10 offense, which is of course why I had a dim, pessimistic view of the whole thing even before factoring in availability, but I think it's probably going to have ANY positive beneficial effect.

I'm just more annoyed with the brain dead blind faith takes I see when people try to defend decidedly mediocre moves. The team has no spacing and now that Scottie operates primarily in the mid range, we add another guy who primarily operates in the mid range, but with some better 3pt shooting, that's not a paradigm shift, that's another coat of paint on rotting wood.

It's less about the individual players to me, and more about the incessant need to double down on mediocrity at every turn. You don't make a team that has inefficient scoring better, by adding another inefficient scorer. This isn't a "pick your poison" situation, it's "pick your tepid glass of water".