Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[LoveMyRaps]

Raptors have been in the luxury tax ONCE in the entire franchise’s history.

But folks want to hand wave that off like it isn’t relevant because they’re desperate to see a mediocre core be given a shot lol.

They are NOT a mediocre core... this team is playoffs bound.

Poeltl, IQ, RJ and Scottie are among the worst 4 man lineups in the entire league lol. Those guys are supposed to be your best 4 players and they have a negative net rating. I don’t think you realize how bad that is.

Siakam, FVV, OG and Scottie were a mediocre core and they were still able to be a positive net rating, albeit it being still a horrible number for starters.

Our current 4 make the look like contenders. That’s how bad the net rating is.

If we actually go into the season with those 4 guys, then we gotta have a super short leash. I’m talking 10 games max.

Ideally we should move on from RJ right now. It’s not rocket science, our starting lineup needs more 3pt shooting. We have ONE reliable 3pt shooter in the entire starting lineup. That’s a recipe for disaster.

Look at the Pacers starting rotation that just made the finals - every guy can shoot the 3 ball.

Look at the Thunder starting rotation that just won the finals - 4/5 can shoot the 3 ball.

Ochai starting over RJ is an easy fix for the time being if we decide to hold onto RJ till the deadline.

[HumbleRen]

They are NOT a mediocre core... this team is playoffs bound.

Poeltl, IQ, RJ and Scottie are among the worst 4 man lineups in the entire league lol. Those guys are supposed to be your best 4 players and they have a negative net rating. I don’t think you realize how bad that is.

Siakam, FVV, OG and Scottie were a mediocre core and they were still able to be a positive net rating, albeit it being still a horrible number for starters.

Our current 4 make the look like contenders. That’s how bad the net rating is.

If we actually go into the season with those 4 guys, then we gotta have a super short leash. I’m talking 10 games max.

Ideally we should move on from RJ right now. It’s not rocket science, our starting lineup needs more 3pt shooting. We have ONE reliable 3pt shooter in the entire starting lineup. That’s a recipe for disaster.

Look at the Pacers starting rotation that just made the finals - every guy can shoot the 3 ball.

Look at the Thunder starting rotation that just won the finals - 4/5 can shoot the 3 ball.

Ochai starting over RJ is an easy fix for the time being if we decide to hold onto RJ till the deadline.

I don’t know what people see in this trio to believe in them so much.

Only one good 3 point shooter. Only one of them can play good defence on a consistent basis.

IQ, RJ, Scottie had a -12.7 net rating this season. They had a +2.9 rating last year. This is across 2 seasons with over 500+ minutes worth of data. They’re just not good enough.

Low floor, low ceiling. Only miracle we can hope for is Ingram suddenly going back to his all nba caliber self from 2 years ago before his ankles got cooked.

[Los_29]

Poeltl, IQ, RJ and Scottie are among the worst 4 man lineups in the entire league lol. Those guys are supposed to be your best 4 players and they have a negative net rating. I don’t think you realize how bad that is.

Siakam, FVV, OG and Scottie were a mediocre core and they were still able to be a positive net rating, albeit it being still a horrible number for starters.

Our current 4 make the look like contenders. That’s how bad the net rating is.

If we actually go into the season with those 4 guys, then we gotta have a super short leash. I’m talking 10 games max.

Ideally we should move on from RJ right now. It’s not rocket science, our starting lineup needs more 3pt shooting. We have ONE reliable 3pt shooter in the entire starting lineup. That’s a recipe for disaster.

Look at the Pacers starting rotation that just made the finals - every guy can shoot the 3 ball.

Look at the Thunder starting rotation that just won the finals - 4/5 can shoot the 3 ball.

Ochai starting over RJ is an easy fix for the time being if we decide to hold onto RJ till the deadline.

I don’t know what people see in this trio to believe in them so much.

Only one good 3 point shooter. Only one of them can play good defence on a consistent basis.

IQ, RJ, Scottie had a -12.7 net rating this season. They had a +2.9 rating last year. This is across 2 seasons with over 500+ minutes worth of data. They’re just not good enough.

Low floor, low ceiling. Only miracle we can hope for is Ingram suddenly going back to his all nba caliber self from 2 years ago before his ankles got cooked.

No one talks about RJ/IQ/Barnes as a trio. In fact, most want RJ traded. BI is who you should be putting in instead of RJ. All of them compliment each other well then Poeltl, Ochai, CMB, Walter, Shead and Gradey are intriguing supporting pieces.

[sidsid]

Trade Barrett for Kuzma and their 2031 1st unprotected. Might as well start the new tank season soon.

I don't think even new management is that stupid.

You have to think of what the alternate timeline looks like with RJ swapped into the BI trade like the FO wanted. (You're also swapping Boucher for KO because the Pels wanted some salary relief, but whatever).

That's just salary relief which isn't being replaced with much on this current roster other than potentially re-signing Boucher on a 1 year.

Trading for Kuzma while getting a pick and shaving some cap is a net positive in this timeline. You're not worried about starting him and at best he gets showcased pre-deadline, leaving the minutes for the youth. Then his value is basically the same as RJ's next year, and Simons this year, which is that of an expiring contract.

[OakleyDokely]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

[Anticon]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

Since the market won't open up for RJ anytime soon, seems the most likely shift will be RJ shifting to first scorer off the bench and bringing in shooting (likely Dick) at the 2 spot.

Suspect that happens by December.

[ArthurVandelay]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

RJ fits Utah imo

Point Guard
RJ
Ace
Lauri
Kessler

I think that is better than

Point guard
Springer
Lauri/Ace
Collins/Lauri
Kessler

Question is how much Raptors value RJ. Is the expiring/slightly cheaper Collins worth giving up better player in RJ? Would Utah add draft capital?

I struggle to see a clean fit for RJ elsewhere

[OakleyDokely]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

RJ fits Utah imo

Point Guard
RJ
Ace
Lauri
Kessler

I think that is better than

Point guard
Springer
Lauri/Ace
Collins/Lauri
Kessler

Question is how much Raptors value RJ. Is the expiring/slightly cheaper Collins worth giving up better player in RJ? Would Utah add draft capital?

I struggle to see a clean fit for RJ elsewhere

I don't think they will be in a rush to deal him right now unless a deal makes sense. They can sneak under the tax with him this year.

There will probably be a lot more possibilities closer to the deadline or next offseason when he's an expiring.

[djsunyc]

Raptors have been in the luxury tax ONCE in the entire franchise’s history.

But folks want to hand wave that off like it isn’t relevant because they’re desperate to see a mediocre core be given a shot lol.

They are NOT a mediocre core... this team is playoffs bound.

If we make the playoffs it will be a good season

Cavs
Magic
Philly
New York
Atlanta
Bucks
Detroit

Boston
Indy

That is 9 teams. Boston and Indy are down but had depth. Will be interesting to see how far they fall off this season.

Miami
Chicago

They look to be treadmill and fighting for the playoffs despite fact they'd be better off tanking. So making playoffs would be a very solid season and probably require a 42 win season to make the play in...

I'd say we win 43 baring injuries and finish 9th next year. Middling results but a good upswing. We need to walk before we run.

the east is really competitive imho.

barring injuries my take is that knicks should be favorites to win the east. cavs should be a top 3 seed but they seem to come up short in the playoffs every year. orlando has a team that's probably going to win alot of regular season games by defense and hustle so i have them as a top 3 seed too.

embiid will be lucky to play 41 games so i don't have philly rated in that group. i also think boston will be worse than people expect but regardless, after those top 3, it's really a huge mashup - every year there's always one or two that surprise and one or two that disappoint. we are in that huge mashup.

[tsherkin]

Trading for Kuzma while getting a pick and shaving some cap is a net positive in this timeline. You're not worried about starting him and at best he gets showcased pre-deadline, leaving the minutes for the youth. Then his value is basically the same as RJ's next year, and Simons this year, which is that of an expiring contract.

Kuzma's an oxygen thief, though; he's absolutely terrible. He has to have far less value than RJ because he's actually authentically awful.

[Duffman100]

Trading for Kuzma while getting a pick and shaving some cap is a net positive in this timeline. You're not worried about starting him and at best he gets showcased pre-deadline, leaving the minutes for the youth. Then his value is basically the same as RJ's next year, and Simons this year, which is that of an expiring contract.

Kuzma's an oxygen thief, though; he's absolutely terrible. He has to have far less value than RJ because he's actually authentically awful.

Kuzma is a loser. Even when he 'won' on the Lakers, he was limited in minutes and was negative impact.

Every time we played them, we hunted him and he'd allow easy bucket after easy bucket.

[Fairview4Life]

IQ, RJ, Scottie had a -12.7 net rating this season. They had a +2.9 rating last year. This is across 2 seasons with over 500+ minutes worth of data. They’re just not good enough.

Low floor, low ceiling. Only miracle we can hope for is Ingram suddenly going back to his all nba caliber self from 2 years ago before his ankles got cooked.

"Across 2 seasons" means 285 minutes across 16 games last year, and 439 minutes across 22 games the year we traded for IQ and RJ. Injuries, bereavement and tanking has kept those three guys from playing with each other all that much. They looked fine after the trade. But I am not sure why we should really be drawing all that many conclusions about that particular 3 man unit, especially with such a small and erratic sample size or by overvaluing last season's pretty random numbers.

The Yak/IQ/RJ/Scottie 4 man lineup had a net rating of +10.8 in 2023/24 (234 minutes across 14 games), last year it was -11.2 (140 minutes across 9 games). What conclusions are we supposed to be drawing from these numbers, exactly?

[Thaddy]

We should keep them until the trade deadline. If the offers suck give RJ a new cheaper deal. I feel like this is the most obvious outcome for us. It'd be better than trading RJ for PWill or another cheaper contract but worse player.

[sidsid]

Trading for Kuzma while getting a pick and shaving some cap is a net positive in this timeline. You're not worried about starting him and at best he gets showcased pre-deadline, leaving the minutes for the youth. Then his value is basically the same as RJ's next year, and Simons this year, which is that of an expiring contract.

Kuzma's an oxygen thief, though; he's absolutely terrible. He has to have far less value than RJ because he's actually authentically awful.

Kuzma is a loser. Even when he 'won' on the Lakers, he was limited in minutes and was negative impact.

Every time we played them, we hunted him and he'd allow easy bucket after easy bucket.

Kuzma has negative value, and RJ has a best neutral value. He'll be benched more than likely.

What this translates to is not much in terms of what teams are looking for. The MPJ trade, the Simons trade, these were mainly done for cap purposes, or else they wouldn't have been done at all.

The Bulls are looking primarily at one thing with all their trades right now: to not increase their cap term over two years (just getting rid of PWill), and shaving some now as well (Vuc), while maybe shedding or adding picks here and there.

And then there is Joe Dumars. But I digress.

This is very much the same for the Raptors. We just want some or all that salary gone now that the 9th isn't in play. That's the goal. Other teams mainly see RJ and Kuzma as just salary as well.

[tsherkin]

This is very much the same for the Raptors. We just want some or all that salary gone now that the 9th isn't in play. That's the goal. Other teams mainly see RJ and Kuzma as just salary as well.

Us losing RJ for just cap shaving isn't really that worthwhile. We need to find a way to get some kind of substance back for him, even if it means waiting until the season is mid-way and hoping that he plays better than he did this season.

[alpngso]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

RJ fits Utah imo

Point Guard
RJ
Ace
Lauri
Kessler

I think that is better than

Point guard
Springer
Lauri/Ace
Collins/Lauri
Kessler

Question is how much Raptors value RJ. Is the expiring/slightly cheaper Collins worth giving up better player in RJ? Would Utah add draft capital?

I struggle to see a clean fit for RJ elsewhere

Utah just cleared Sexton, Clarkson for to give more playing time for the young guys.

I doubt they want to bring in RJ to block their min

[ArthurVandelay]

Looking at the roster and the cap situation, they can probably keep 2 of Poeltl, IQ and RJ and they just re-signed Poeltl and they gave IQ a 5 year deal so in my eyes it's pretty obvious who the odd man out will be.

RJ fits Utah imo

Point Guard
RJ
Ace
Lauri
Kessler

I think that is better than

Point guard
Springer
Lauri/Ace
Collins/Lauri
Kessler

Question is how much Raptors value RJ. Is the expiring/slightly cheaper Collins worth giving up better player in RJ? Would Utah add draft capital?

I struggle to see a clean fit for RJ elsewhere

Utah just cleared Sexton, Clarkson for to give more playing time for the young guys.

I doubt they want to bring in RJ to block their min

Maybe not. But their young guys at guard are crap.

[TimeForChange]

Utah isn’t trying to win or add contracts with salary moving forward.

[dhackett1565]

IQ, RJ, Scottie had a -12.7 net rating this season. They had a +2.9 rating last year. This is across 2 seasons with over 500+ minutes worth of data. They’re just not good enough.

Low floor, low ceiling. Only miracle we can hope for is Ingram suddenly going back to his all nba caliber self from 2 years ago before his ankles got cooked.

"Across 2 seasons" means 285 minutes across 16 games last year, and 439 minutes across 22 games the year we traded for IQ and RJ. Injuries, bereavement and tanking has kept those three guys from playing with each other all that much. They looked fine after the trade. But I am not sure why we should really be drawing all that many conclusions about that particular 3 man unit, especially with such a small and erratic sample size or by overvaluing last season's pretty random numbers.

The Yak/IQ/RJ/Scottie 4 man lineup had a net rating of +10.8 in 2023/24 (234 minutes across 14 games), last year it was -11.2 (140 minutes across 9 games). What conclusions are we supposed to be drawing from these numbers, exactly?

I agree, last year's lineup numbers are badly skewed - mostly because of who the 5th guy was.

Gradey is simply not an option to start, and most of that 4-some's minutes came with him on the court. That -11 net rating is fueled mostly by a bunch of Gradey minutes (-9 RTG) and a handful of disaster Boucher minutes (-17 RTG) and Brown minutes (-42 RTG). When Jakobe played in that lineup they had a +15 RTG in only 17 minutes. Those are the only 4 guys who filled that 5th slot for that lineup last year, and this year it's Brandon Ingram. Zero reason to be particularly pessimistic about that group.

I think there's a good chance we move on from RJ either now or later, but if he's here come the season, I think the starters should be solid. The question marks will be what happens when we suffer an injury, especially to Jak, but every team has a question mark like that somewhere on the roster.

[ontnut]

They are NOT a mediocre core... this team is playoffs bound.

If we make the playoffs it will be a good season

Cavs
Magic
Philly
New York
Atlanta
Bucks
Detroit

Boston
Indy

That is 9 teams. Boston and Indy are down but had depth. Will be interesting to see how far they fall off this season.

Miami
Chicago

They look to be treadmill and fighting for the playoffs despite fact they'd be better off tanking. So making playoffs would be a very solid season and probably require a 42 win season to make the play in...

I'd say we win 43 baring injuries and finish 9th next year. Middling results but a good upswing. We need to walk before we run.

the east is really competitive imho.

barring injuries my take is that knicks should be favorites to win the east. cavs should be a top 3 seed but they seem to come up short in the playoffs every year. orlando has a team that's probably going to win alot of regular season games by defense and hustle so i have them as a top 3 seed too.

embiid will be lucky to play 41 games so i don't have philly rated in that group. i also think boston will be worse than people expect but regardless, after those top 3, it's really a huge mashup - every year there's always one or two that surprise and one or two that disappoint. we are in that huge mashup.

I think the Hawks are going to be the surprise team this year. They added a lot of pieces this offseason and also will get back a healthy Jalen Johnson, who I had pegged for MIP last year before he got hurt. This is the first time in a long time I'm actually really high on the Hawks - and I have them as frontrunners for COTY and EOTY at this stage (I expect a significant win total increase from last season and a top 4 seed).