SoTD: Bargnani still decent at Post-up Defence

[J-Roc]

Not just that Bosh wasn't a good post defender, but I found that other teams ran their scrubs vs Bosh in crunch time. We'd have Jared Dudley shooting over Bosh at will.

[Lionel Messi]

Bosh

Is it really a surprise to anyone? He's a new player in a new city looking to make an impression. He was a good defensive player for Team USA. On the Raps, he gave up putting the effort needed after his 2nd or 3rd year in the league so he could conserve energy for his offense. Basically, Bosh is motivated to play defense. WE always knew he had the ability to play defense.

Noah

His value isnt as a 1:1 stopper, his value was always as a help defender.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in this post. Bosh is still stuck with his usual bad habits (standing straight up instead of a full out attempt at blocking a shot in the paint) and he's actually been playing more passively overall (offensively, rebounding etc.) on the Heat.

He isn't playing with the same amount of "ferocity" as he did for us last year when he knew we depended on him.

[EH15]

SS compiled these stats last year and it always showed Bosh as being an above average defender and our best defender after Amir. It's not a surprise to me he's up there this year seeing as how he actually has a defensive system to play in. He just never actually jumps more than a foot to contest shots and people take that for weak defense.

[LiSTWithLani]

Bosh's numbers are definitely positively affected by the gangly arms of Varejao and athleticism of our fellow Canadian helping him weak side at the center position. Plus you have LeBron and Wade, two very capable help defenders, who are able to commit to helping on defence more than the average player, because they can close out on their man better than others.

I can't help but think that his numbers are a reflection of the swarming defensive system they have in place, rather than his ability to body up bigs who are backing down and contest their shots.

[ff_29]

I'm working on PF ranking post right now. With everyone talking about what a failure Bosh has supposedly been in Miami, how do we reconcile his outstanding post defence numbers here? Is he actually a good defender, after all?

Could it be due to sample size? 33 possessions isn't much to go by. His pure post-up PPP was .86 last year, and he was a .89 overall. He was actually slightly worse than Amar'e (who I believe is considered a pretty bad defender) overall last year, so I don't know about calling him a good defender based on 33 possessions.

For the record, Bargs gave up .80 PPP in pure post-ups last year.

[Lionel Messi]

Bosh's numbers are definitely positively affected by the gangly arms of Varejao

?

Ilgauskas?

Ilgauskas is slow as molasses. He is a pretty bad defender, especially on help.

[TLJ]

I dont think they (the heat) played any teams that have a threat at that position. Hes probably defending scrubs.

[draft]

Bosh lost weight this year, so he should be worse defending post ups. He could be pushed around easier. It's interesting stuff.

[MEDIC]

You guys are a little nuts when it comes to trades.

a) we can't get iggy with just an expiring, there are many teams offering this or TPE and 76ers are shopping around
b) cleveland has the 3rd lowest payroll in the NBA, with Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams being the bad contracts. everything else is 4.5m or less and expiring in the next 1-3 yrs.

I think it would take something like Derozan + filler + OUR first rounder for Varajao, and Peja + Weems + multiple 1sts for Iggy.

Derozan + our first rounder + expirings for Varejao??????

Cleveland is already losing a ton of money as has been recently reported. They were able to secure season seat sales before Lebron made "the decision". They are going to be in no position to sell anywhere near as many season seats/ merchandise, etc next year.

Varejao is the largest contract on the team & he is inching towards his 30's. It would be pretty pretty hard for the owner to turn down a TPE or Expiring, plus a draft pick. The team needs to shed salary & do a complete rebuild.

I have no problem with Weems/ 1st rounder & Peja for Iggy. Sign me up.

[mihaic]

Bosh better post-up defender than Noah and Horford?


Interesting.....

bogus stat of the day?

[AB ALLSTAR]

You guys are a little nuts when it comes to trades.

a) we can't get iggy with just an expiring, there are many teams offering this or TPE and 76ers are shopping around
b) cleveland has the 3rd lowest payroll in the NBA, with Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams being the bad contracts. everything else is 4.5m or less and expiring in the next 1-3 yrs.

I think it would take something like Derozan + filler + OUR first rounder for Varajao, and Peja + Weems + multiple 1sts for Iggy.

Derozan + our first rounder + expirings for Varejao??????

Cleveland is already losing a ton of money as has been recently reported. They were able to secure season seat sales before Lebron made "the decision". They are going to be in no position to sell anywhere near as many season seats/ merchandise, etc next year.

Varejao is the largest contract on the team & he is inching towards his 30's. It would be pretty pretty hard for the owner to turn down a TPE or Expiring, plus a draft pick. The team needs to shed salary & do a complete rebuild.

I have no problem with Weems/ 1st rounder & Peja for Iggy. Sign me up.

I liked very much Iggy til 2 years ago. But it seems to me that his statistics are falling down. I know he is only 26 but I'm not so sure about him in the next years. For sure he would be a great addition right now!

[supersub15]

Does this 1 on 1 post defense not include outcomes like LeBron coming from the weakside and swatting the guy, or guards digging in and getting steals? Or are missed shots and turnovers that are not the primary defender's doing calculated in the PPS? Thanks

I checked a few videos, and all seem to indicate it's one man against one man, no weak-side help.

Hey Sub, any chance you have more of those numbers? I'd like to use these stats to pull out potential Center targets for the Raptors (Gortat comes to mind)

Code: Select all

                  Plays   PPP*    FG%    Rank
Marcin Gortat      46     0.80   0.447    34

Don't forget that this is only Post-up Defence. There's a lot more than just that.

Does anyone have his number for last year? Also SS, how many bigs are we talking about. 67 seems like a middle of the pack ranking.

Code: Select all

                  Plays   PPP*    FG%    Rank
Chris Bosh         191    0.84   0.436    114

Unfortunately, I can't sort by rankings, so there's no way for me to figure out how many players are ranked without going through the league, one by one.

Hey SS how do they pick which plays are considered as iso's? does it also include if double teams or help is given?

From the few videos I watched, it was always one-on-one, no help. Don't want to waste too much time watching...

Not just that Bosh wasn't a good post defender, but I found that other teams ran their scrubs vs Bosh in crunch time. We'd have Jared Dudley shooting over Bosh at will.

Iso's are tracked separately. This is pure back-down-the-defender-in-the-post-and-try-to-score plays.

And to finish it off...

bogus stat of the day?

And that's why people, there's a beautiful thing on RealGM called ignore list.