Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[fame]

So it seems like it's safe to say that the majority of us will be pretty happy if we end up with one of: Irving, D. Williams, Barnes, or Kanter? Maybe we should start the idbk or die trying bandwagon?

Anyway as per fit, do you think D-Will can be a good fit for us? I'd be ecstatic if we drafted him, but have concerns with him on our team. I'm just not sure if he's a good enough three point shooter or ballhandler to put on the wing next to demar? Unless his absurd 3pt fg% is for real, it would only leave bayless/calderon as our only deep threats in the starting lineup. Assuming we get rid of Bargs of course...

Speaking of which, if we draft Kanter it might be a good sign that Bargs is being shipped out of town.

[wegetitin08]

I said it before and I will say it again: "Kyrie or Die"!!!

[Brinbe]

I'm fine as long as we're top 4. (watch us get bumped down to fifth though... )

Anyway, any of Irving/D-Will/Kanter/Val (just assuming Barnes is going back now) would be a helpful addition to this roster. And as I've said, as long as the FO does their HW on Kanter Vs Val, they should make the right decision there.

Also, still not too keen on Biyombo at all, [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK8sxngSWaU[/youtube]

[bboyskinnylegs]

The only thing about Kanter for is that he wants to be a PF, but both C and PF are interchangeable

yeah and our PFs play a lot like C's as well... all that matters is that he covers the guy that's his size on D, because right now we have no one capable of doing that effectively (Ed/Amir are too small, and Bargs doesn't play defense-ball). I think he means that he wants to be able to face-up, and perhaps have more of the offense run through him like traditional PFs do--but we've seen that C's can do the same thing, and actually have a mismatch advantage in doing so (Monroe, Gasol, Lopez, Horford, and yes, Bargs)

[Mediocrity]

Has anyone acutally seen Biyombo play? To me he looks like a Serge Ibaka clone, which I would be more than happy to draft. A biyombo/Davis front-court would be a defenseive nightmare for opposing teams, and Davis seems like he has the tools to be a very good offensive player down the road. If we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick and Irving, Williams, Barnes and Kanter were gone, I think I would take the chance on Biyombo.

[killerbs]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YzbhAQGPqk&feature=bf_next&list=WL5BEE2D900E6C134A&index=4[/youtube]

Anyone else notice PJ Carlismo is commenting for this game lol its a sure pick if Barnes doesnt declare imo

[bboyskinnylegs]

So it seems like it's safe to say that the majority of us will be pretty happy if we end up with one of: Irving, D. Williams, Barnes, or Kanter? Maybe we should start the idbk or die trying bandwagon?

Anyway as per fit, do you think D-Will can be a good fit for us? I'd be ecstatic if we drafted him, but have concerns with him on our team. I'm just not sure if he's a good enough three point shooter or ballhandler to put on the wing next to demar? Unless his absurd 3pt fg% is for real, it would only leave bayless/calderon as our only deep threats in the starting lineup. Assuming we get rid of Bargs of course...

Speaking of which, if we draft Kanter it might be a good sign that Bargs is being shipped out of town.

I think DWill can be really, really good. I think he could be ok at the 3 (although that's the big question that we really don't have the answer to right now), but he's quick and decisive when he gets the ball, has great footwork, gets to the line, and can score from inside and outside. I don't know if getting a superior ballhandler is an absolute necessity at SF--sure it's nice to have a guy like Lebron that's like a PG from the 3 spot, but DWill's handles are are fine as a guy that you get the ball to to score, and he seems more than comfortable creating his own shot off the dribble the way a Melo/Beasley can.

And we've seen a lot of improvement in DeMar's handles recently, so I'd be fine with him and Bayless being the only ballhandlers. I don't think Barnes' handles are all that good either (Perry was the only guy that looked like he might be able to fit that mold as a primary ballhandler). It's hard to tell how his 3pt shooting will translate, but he did take 2 of them per game and converted on 56.8% of them, so if anything there's nothing to be worried about at this point. To me, the benefits he brings being able to get to the line and being such an efficient scorer are more important than his 3pt range.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Has anyone acutally seen Biyombo play? To me he looks like a Serge Ibaka clone, which I would be more than happy to draft. A biyombo/Davis front-court would be a defenseive nightmare for opposing teams, and Davis seems like he has the tools to be a very good offensive player down the road. If we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick and Irving, Williams, Barnes and Kanter were gone, I think I would take the chance on Biyombo.

He's a lot longer and about 20 lbs bigger than Ibaka was when he was drafted, but both look like athletic guys with solid defense. Biyombo doesn't have Ibaka's jumper either. I agree that him and Ed could make an athletic frontcourt that could really excel defensively (especially if Biyombo isn't done growing), and it would allow Ed more opportunity to develop his offensive game (although the majority of our offense would probably come from our backcourt of DeMar/Bayless). I'd definitely consider him if we move down in the lotto.

[Mediocrity]

Has anyone acutally seen Biyombo play? To me he looks like a Serge Ibaka clone, which I would be more than happy to draft. A biyombo/Davis front-court would be a defenseive nightmare for opposing teams, and Davis seems like he has the tools to be a very good offensive player down the road. If we ended up with the 5th or 6th pick and Irving, Williams, Barnes and Kanter were gone, I think I would take the chance on Biyombo.

He's a lot longer and about 20 lbs bigger than Ibaka was when he was drafted, but both look like athletic guys with solid defense. Biyombo doesn't have Ibaka's jumper either. I agree that him and Ed could make an athletic frontcourt that could really excel defensively (especially if Biyombo isn't done growing), and it would allow Ed more opportunity to develop his offensive game (although the majority of our offense would probably come from our backcourt of DeMar/Bayless). I'd definitely consider him if we move down in the lotto.

Exactly, with a later pick you always want to take the guy with the highest potential, i.e., Derozan. What about drafting one of Knight or Walker? Personally, I think I would rather have Bayless, as the 2 don't scream anything special, or anything that we don't posses have in Bayless. knight reminds me of Jennings, who is someone I would wan't to stay away from.

[JamesNaismith]

I can't believe the TWolves have creeped up to take the top pick from the Cavs lol what bs although.....


That means they will have Kyrie and Rubio.....Barbosa for Rubio!!!!


Get er' done Pritchard *ahem* I mean BC!!!

[bboyskinnylegs]

I can't believe the TWolves have creeped up to take the top pick from the Cavs lol what bs although.....


That means they will have Kyrie and Rubio.....Barbosa for Rubio!!!!


Get er' done Pritchard *ahem* I mean BC!!!

Perhaps the Cavs will have some incentive to tank out this last game against Washington (giving them an opportunity to tie Minny in the standings if they can beat the Rockets). And given the fact that Rubio has finally committed to them, I think Kahn will just pass on Kyrie anyways.

[Reignman]

One thing about Kanter that could potentially be a great asset to this team is his passing ability. Apparently he's an excellent passer out of the post and from all the youtube clips we've seen of him you can clearly see he knows what he'd doing on that end.

I'm really interested in how the workouts go for both him and Val. Should give us a very good gauge on these two. Talking about Bismack makes me feel sick to my stomach at our pick so I'm not going to talk about him.

[dagger]

It is both an advantage and disadvantage that the bigs we're discussing are 18-19 year olds (I'll give Biyombo the benefit of the doubt). All have a lot of room to improve, yet it's particularly hard to project where they will top out. Valanciunas, for one, doesn't turn 19 until next month and says he's still growing! All have things about their game which we can appreciate now, but all have huge holes in their game. You're expect them to address those holes, but to what extent they'd be successful is difficult to project. We have to take their intentions on sheer faith.

Kanter

Pros. The biggest body. The best physical and tactical complement to Ed Davis. Decent rebounder, decent motor, soft touch, potential for a good back to the basket game. But for all his virtues he doesn't project to be as good as DeMarcus Cousins. He's the poor man's DC with a better attitude. No buyout required, could play here next season if there is one.

Cons. The least athletic of the 3, second tallest with the shortest wingspan. Hasn't played at all this season and if there is a lockout, won't play at least part of next season as well, meaning he's wasting precious development years. He's not even practising with pros. The whole Kentucky thing was a big, fat mistake, and now his agent is hiding him to protect his draft rating. Don't be surprised if he refuses to work out against other centers.


Biyombo

Pros. Playing at the highest level national league of the three, for a non-Euroleague team (meaning he gets to play the best Spanish teams, but not the best of other European countries). Very athletic. Huge wingspan makes up for lack of height. Insane leaper with good instincts, and likely has a lot of room to grow. Affordable buyout, could play here next season.

Cons. Is he Ben Wallace or Joel Anthony/JaVale McGee? In other words, does he have the aptitude to be an elite defender, or just an insane shotblocker who contributes little else? With his size, can he body up seven footers in the post, or will they just shoot over him, like they do Ed Davis. Poor free throw shooter suggests he will not develop a mid-range game very quickly if at all, and also makes it likely that teams would employ a hack-a-Bismack to take down the value of his offensive rebounding. To me, he's the biggest crap shoot of the three bigs, and I would rather consider him at the back end of the lottery than the front end. (All of this presumes he's 18; on this one, I'm a birther - I'd like to see a birth certificate. His family is wealthy and well-connected, so they probably can furnish proof of birth). Prone to spurts of good and bad. Prior to Nike Summit, was well scouted and not rated as highly as he is after that one game.

Valanciunas

Pros. May be seven feet now, great wingspan, probably the biggest standing reach of all three. Tremendous motor, attacks offensive boards like a demon. Tremendous free throw shooter (90%), which suggests he might develop a nice midrange game. Runs the pick and roll like an NBA veteran. Has a bit of a back to the basket game. Playing in a weak national league (LVL), but on a Euroleague and Baltic Cup team. Potential is a cross between Andris Biedrins and Zydrunas Ilgauskus, or maybe Anderson Varajeo with much better offence.

Cons. Needs to fill out physically to defend seven footers consistently, needs to improve his back to the basket game and demonstrate he can be as effective on the defensive boards as he is on the offensive glass. May not be available for workouts because team still playing. Would stay in Europe next season, a negative if there is no lockout, a plus if there is. Buyout TBA, but agent says that won't be a problem if he's a high pick and plays one more year in Lithuania.

[Mediocrity]

It is both an advantage and disadvantage that the bigs we're discussing are 18-19 year olds (I'll give Biyombo the benefit of the doubt). All have a lot of room to improve, yet it's particularly hard to project where they will top out. Valanciunas, for one, doesn't turn 19 until next month and says he's still growing! All have things about their game which we can appreciate now, but all have huge holes in their game. You're expect them to address those holes, but to what extent they'd be successful is difficult to project. We have to take their intentions on sheer faith.

Kanter

Pros. The biggest body. The best physical and tactical complement to Ed Davis. Decent rebounder, decent motor, soft touch, potential for a good back to the basket game. But for all his virtues he doesn't project to be as good as DeMarcus Cousins. He's the poor man's DC with a better attitude. No buyout required, could play here next season if there is one.

Cons. The least athletic of the 3, second tallest with the shortest wingspan. Hasn't played at all this season and if there is a lockout, won't play at least part of next season as well, meaning he's wasting precious development years. He's not even practising with pros. The whole Kentucky thing was a big, fat mistake, and now his agent is hiding him to protect his draft rating. Don't be surprised if he refuses to work out against other centers.


Biyombo

Pros. Playing at the highest level national league of the three, for a non-Euroleague team (meaning he gets to play the best Spanish teams, but not the best of other European countries). Very athletic. Huge wingspan makes up for lack of height. Insane leaper with good instincts, and likely has a lot of room to grow. Affordable buyout, could play here next season.

Cons. Is he Ben Wallace or Joel Anthony/JaVale McGee? In other words, does he have the aptitude to be an elite defender, or just an insane shotblocker who contributes little else? With his size, can he body up seven footers in the post, or will they just shoot over him, like they do Ed Davis. Poor free throw shooter suggests he will not develop a mid-range game very quickly if at all, and also makes it likely that teams would employ a hack-a-Bismack to take down the value of his offensive rebounding. To me, he's the biggest crap shoot of the three bigs, and I would rather consider him at the back end of the lottery than the front end. (All of this presumes he's 18; on this one, I'm a birther - I'd like to see a birth certificate. His family is wealthy and well-connected, so they probably can furnish proof of birth). Prone to spurts of good and bad. Prior to Nike Summit, was well scouted and not rated as highly as he is after that one game.

Valanciunas

Pros. May be seven feet now, great wingspan, probably the biggest standing reach of all three. Tremendous motor, attacks offensive boards like a demon. Tremendous free throw shooter (90%), which suggests he might develop a nice midrange game. Runs the pick and roll like an NBA veteran. Has a bit of a back to the basket game. Playing in a weak national league (LVL), but on a Euroleague and Baltic Cup team. Potential is a cross between Andris Biedrins and Zydrunas Ilgauskus, or maybe Anderson Varajeo with much better offence.

Cons. Needs to fill out physically to defend seven footers consistently, needs to improve his back to the basket game and demonstrate he can be as effective on the defensive boards as he is on the offensive glass. May not be available for workouts because team still playing. Would stay in Europe next season, a negative if there is no lockout, a plus if there is. Buyout TBA, but agent says that won't be a problem if he's a high pick and plays one more year in Lithuania.

So Dagger, if the draft was tommorow, and we could only draft one of the above 3 you just mentioned, who would you be inclined to take? From your detailed analysis, I think that I might be tempted to take Valanciunas, even though I was weary before.

[NashyMing]

If BC is targetting to draft Motiejunas. He definitely need to be fired!

Kemba Walker is no better than Jerryl Bayless. Brandon Knight got great upside, but he's looking more like a 6th man at this point.

Ideally, I hope we can get Irving or Barnes. I actually want Barnes more because he would bring balance to our roster and give us a star SF.
Bayless / DeRozan / Barnes / Davis / Bargnani seem to be a pretty good starting 5.

If we get Irving, then we may have to trade Bayless. I don't think Bayless wants to be backup for Irving and may not be good for chemistry.
Irving / DeRozan / Johnson / Davis / Bargnani doesn't look as good.

Bayless starting to look better running the team and has good chemistry with DeRozan, which helps the case in having him as starting PG. Looking at history, most championship team didn't have a pass-first PG anyway.

Lakers - Fisher, Spurs - Parker, Bulls in MJ era - Harper

I am torned between Derrick Williams, Jonas Valanciunas and Enes Kanter.

Derrick Williams have Antawn Jamison written all over him. Enes Kanter's knee and a year of sit out is quite concerning (gotta make sure he's in shape and his knees are good).

Jonas Valanciunas looks pretty impressive and is very productive in Europe.
7.6 pt, 70% FG, 91.7% FT, 5.4 rb in under 15 minutes is very impressive as an 18 years old in Euroleague.

So depending how the workout goes, I may pick Valanciunas over Jamison and Kanter.

[KL78192020]

Any word on Barnes yet? is he in/out?

[dagger]

So Dagger, if the draft was tommorow, and we could only draft one of the above 3 you just mentioned, who would you be inclined to take? From your detailed analysis, I think that I might be tempted to take Valanciunas, even though I was weary before.

Well, if it comes down to a choice between the three, and no one else (i.e. we don't move up in the lottery), I'd go with Valanciunas as the most likely to produce a well rounded game. I like the idea of leaving him overseas during a lockout, so if we play an abbreviated season, it will help us secure another Top 10 pick.

[Brinbe]

So Dagger, if the draft was tommorow, and we could only draft one of the above 3 you just mentioned, who would you be inclined to take? From your detailed analysis, I think that I might be tempted to take Valanciunas, even though I was weary before.

Well, if it comes down to a choice between the three, and no one else (i.e. we don't move up in the lottery), I'd go with Valanciunas as the most likely to produce a well rounded game.

I'd agree with that. But if we end up 4th, and Val's gone, I don't think I'd have a problem with Kanter either.

[dagger]

So Dagger, if the draft was tommorow, and we could only draft one of the above 3 you just mentioned, who would you be inclined to take? From your detailed analysis, I think that I might be tempted to take Valanciunas, even though I was weary before.

Well, if it comes down to a choice between the three, and no one else (i.e. we don't move up in the lottery), I'd go with Valanciunas as the most likely to produce a well rounded game.

I'd agree with that. But if we end up 4th, and Val's gone, I don't think I'd have a problem with Kanter either.

I can see that, too, but I think he'd be available around #4 or 5 because some teams that have been in the lottery for a few years wouldn't want to wait on him for a full season. It wouldn't bother me at all. Kanter would be a good backup plan.

[NashyMing]

I actually like Bismack Biyombo a lot after the hoops summit game. He has the length, the strength, and the energy to be a very good defensive big man.

He works hard, fight in the post, block shots left and right, bring energy and even leadership to the world squat. When he's off the floor, team USA had a field trip in the post.

He's the perfect example of high risk high reward. He also seems to have great personality, willing to work on his weaknesses.

He can be a shorter Dwight Howard at best and Joey Dorsey at worst. He's great fit for the Raptors. I am actually hoping the Raptors can get a 2nd lottery pick and select Biyombo. I wouldn't risk a top 5 pick on him though.