Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[Prestige]

We need every position help. MKG won't be the franchise player we need. I'd rather bank on Drummond or Davis.

[gerrit4]

This is what I'd like to see our board look like.

1) Davis (can't miss defensive captain, has potential to be a 20-10 guy)
2) Kidd-Gilchrist (leaves it all on the floor, SG version of Westbrook?)
3) Barnes (think he's probably a future all-star, too much game and great work ethic)
4) Lamb (Doesn't strike me as a number one option, but has a lot of skill. Seems to rise to the occasion)
5) Drummond (Massive potential, but looks lost and passive at times. Offensive skill was overrated)
6) PJIII (Great potential, but not a true position)

After this I'm disinterested.

7) Quincy Miller (seems like a Rashard Lewis PF to me, without the defense. Could be a major bust-O, but he's got some nice skills.)
8) Austin Chucker (over-hyped handle, poor athleticism, bad defense, but he could probably average 20 and might eventually figure out he has to play point guard in the NBA or he'll be a bench player.)
9) Thomas Robinson (again, I hate drafting tweeners, but he's putting up outstanding rebounding numbers)
10) Jared Sullinger (at this point, go with a sure thing that will provide intangibles and low-post scoring, not a great fit but BPA)

Not sure why Thomas Robinson is considered a tweener. He's got an nba body, he's one of the better built PFs in the NCAA. Also, he's 6'9 - that's about the average size for a PF, heck that's how tall Blake Griffen is and nobody calls him undersized.

I'm not quite sold on Rivers either. I'd like getting him with another pick (the potential is there), but he's got significant downside as well. If he's not a star, he'll be a ball hogging low FG% player that doesn't play D. That's enough to tear apart locker rooms and start feuds. At least a guy like Thomas Robinson will probably be a rotational big who can get you boards at the very worst....

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Lamb does look good. We need wing guard help, him and MKG are perfect.

I like it, but I'd settle for Lamb and Barnes if we end up #3 or lower. If we had to use our pick, Demar and Ed to make that happen on draft day then I'm in, but we might be able to trade one of DD or Ed to a team bound for a 10-14 pick during the season and luck out- or use it to move up. Maybe Phoenix would trade their pick.

[Kevin Willis]

We need every position help. MKG won't be the franchise player we need. I'd rather bank on Drummond or Davis.

We won't be that bad unfortunately.

[JamesNaismith]

For our team:

1. Drummond - his size and potential can't be denied. Heck we gave Andrea 5+ years to become a solid starter. Drummond has waaay more potential and if he panned out would immediately be at the level of a (healthy) Bynum or Bogut; maybe even better. Pair that with Val and I don't see how we could possibly consider passing that up (Twin Towers)...there would finally be something to build around.

2. Davis - just a defensive STUD. Everyone says Camby but imo that's more Henson; while I agree Davis can obviously block shots on that level -- I think his offensive potential is MUCH greater then what we see Cal utilizing out of him. Albeit youtube highlights...I've never seen anything similar from Camby in his entire career not to mention Davis was going to be a POINT GUARD. I know he wasn't an elite one but he still was going to be D-1 which takes some level of talent and I could barely see Camby being a PG on an elementary school team nvm D-1 level

3. Lamb/PJ3 - I think Lamb has all the physical talent to be one of the better SGs in the league (better then DeMar). I don't see Wade/Kobe level but at his best maybe just a notch below. With PJ he just has incredible physical and talent attributes that are hard to pass on. With the right system he could explode but of course I'm wary that he never does.

4. Barnes/Miller - Barnes has a low floor (low ceiling) but he would be a good fit. Unfortunately he would make us a new gen ATL Hawks. Good enough to make the playoffs but not advance much further. With Miller I just need to see his health back to 100%...being the next Durant is obviously a bit of stretch but he does have some similarities and is the most skilled SF in the draft; plus I think he would bring a certain swagger to the locker room.

5. Wroten/MKG - Wroten has all the physical tools and talent to be an elite combo guard like Tyreke but with better passing. We still haven't seen the best of him next to Gaddy but he has shown that he can be a stud. If he slows down and makes better decision more frequently then he's a steal. MKG to me is like Gerald Wallace....solid addition but not a franchise changer imo. To be honest if we ended up with either of these guys I would be a bit disappointed but take some comfort that we'd be back in the lotto again the following year.

[JamesNaismith]

The draft order that at this time I think happens:

1. Drummond
2. Davis
3. Barnes
4. Lamb
5. MKG
6. PJ3
7. Robinson
8. Beal
9. Sullinger
10. Miller
11. Leonard
12. Henson
13. Rivers
14. Ross
15. TJones

[Dr Positivity]

Chad Ford posted a new article about Thomas Robinson rising to the conversation for 2nd/3rd with Andre Drummond, Harrison Barnes and Perry Jones III (they all trail Davis)

Interesting quotes

"I've been a skeptic," one GM said. "I've always felt like he was a NBA player. But when you talk about a top pick like that, you are looking for a guy who can turn a franchise around, not an energy guy who may or may not start on a good team. But I'm sold. I didn't think he could handle the double teams. I didn't think he could handle being the focus point on offense. When I saw him in Maui, I was still hesitant. Now? He's gotten better. He's gotten more disciplined. He's improving skill wise, especially with his footwork in the post. And to me, he's become a true leader. He set the pace against Baylor. He took it right to Jones. He's not afraid. I just don't see how he fails."

"I love Jones," one NBA GM said. "He's a good kid. A hard worker. He's super skilled. You put him in the right system and he'll be a very good NBA player. I'm just one of those guys that is skeptical that you can teach a player to play like Thomas Robinson plays. If Jones did that, he'd be the No. 1 pick. But he doesn't play like that, and I doubt he ever will. It doesn't mean he won't be very good or even great. But it does mean the road to get there is harder. You've got to have an edge in our league if you want to be the best. Robinson has the edge. Jones does not."

I like Robinson but he's a factory made case of the player that makes huge jump in the draft from November to June. A guy with a prototypical NBA build who plays as hard as he can in college, and who's skill level isn't great but enough for GMs to look at him like Michaelangelo's rock and say they can turn him into a star with the ball, but you can't teach his effort level and athletic tools. Everyone has caught onto rebounding numbers translating almost perfectly from college, he has that too. People are going to be talking about Robinson as Amare and Griffin 2 soon. He'll destroy the workout stage. Etc. Not to mention he's a pitch perfect fit for Washington, Sacramento, and Detroit's needs, plus New Orleans needs everything but SG so they're in the mix for Robinson too. Robinson is going top 5 and there's still time for him to go all Derrick Williams in hype (Williams didn't establish himself as #2 instead of 6-10 guy until like Maruch)

[FluLikeSymptoms]

If someone above the Raps wants to take Robinson 2 or 3 then that'll be a great pick to me. Like Cleveland taking TT.

[JamesNaismith]

I like Robinson but he's a factory made case of the player that makes huge jump in the draft from November to June. A guy with a prototypical NBA build who plays as hard as he can in college, and who's skill level isn't great but enough for GMs to look at him like Michaelangelo's rock and say they can turn him into a star with the ball, but you can't teach his effort level and athletic tools. Everyone has caught onto rebounding numbers translating almost perfectly from college, he has that too. People are going to be talking about Robinson as Amare and Griffin 2 soon. He'll destroy the workout stage. Etc. Not to mention he's a pitch perfect fit for Washington, Sacramento, and Detroit's needs, plus New Orleans needs everything but SG so they're in the mix for Robinson too. Robinson is going top 5 and there's still time for him to go all Derrick Williams in hype (Williams didn't establish himself as #2 instead of 6-10 guy until like Maruch)

I can certainly see Robinson sneaking into the top 5 if he continues to play hard and have a great tournament but I just think the top 4 names are all but set in stone (just my opinion).

Drummond - too many physical attributes (and talent) that has the potential to be the 2nd best big in the game
Davis - long heralded the #1 pick for obvious defensive reasons
Lamb - prototypical SG skills in a league that lacks them, not to mention a ridiculous wing span
Barnes - just too much hype and media attention to fall far


I give him the chance to beat out PJ3, MKG, Miller, Sullinger etc but those top 4 names have obvious niches in the draft.

[Reignman]

If someone above the Raps wants to take Robinson 2 or 3 then that'll be a great pick to me. Like Cleveland taking TT.

Agreed, same goes for Leonard. And tbh, if we're not picking number 1 I wouldn't be mad if someone took Miller ahead of us.

As long as we get 1 of:

Davis
Drummond
PJ3
MKG
Barnes

(no particular order)

I think I'll be a happy camper. If we can scoop Kendall Marshall with a later pick that would f'n fantastic.

[fredericklove]

Cavs taking TT before us was a blessing and idk if we can ever get anymore blessing like that again lol (I'm a pessimist), with that being said. I too won't be mad if we miss out on top 2 picks since the top 5 is so deep and we won't necessary have to get a desperate franchise game-changing cos none of the top 5 are guarantee game-changer in the mold of Rose/Griffin/Durant/Oden(if not for injuries) type...but I'm tired of drafting a big man (bosh/bargs/ed, except Val, he might shine) we really need a spectacular wing, not just to fill the hole but someone who can balance the core in terms of scoring, and or take over as the go to guy.

[fredericklove]

You're right. I agree with all of that.

But I guess it comes down to philosophy and what you really want out of the draft... Are you satisfied with being guaranteed an energy, fierce competitor/defender that will likely never be a go-to guy a la Gerald Wallace or gamble and go for a guy like Miller or Barnes who could disappoint or turn out to be good players like Rudy Gay or Danny Granger. Not stars but very very good basketball players.

I think we're at a point where we need to go for the upper echelon go-to type guys personally so I'd take a hard look at Barnes, Miller, Beal, Lamb and even Drummond. We've got enough role players now. We need to try and pick a guy who we can build around.

This is another reason why I think getting another pick would be huge for us and why I strongly suggest trading Bargnani.

I absolutely have no problems with that. A Gerald Wallace might really shine in Casey's system but a Rudy/Granger type would be amazing to have. I am a fan of both MKG and Barnes and I'd be happy if one of these two land in the raptors...

[fredericklove]

idk about trading bargs, if he keeps it up he'd be a great 2nd option on offense for us, unless we win the lottery and taking one of the ADs as an inevitable quest, then obviously trading Andrea would be the ideal choice.

I wonder tho, what if we end up drafting Drummond and he can qualify as a Center. Should we be using Val as a trading chip to net ourselves another top 5 pick? Like a Barnes, or Lamb.

Drummond
Bargs
Barnes
Demar
PG

[Reignman]

idk about trading bargs, if he keeps it up he'd be a great 2nd option on offense for us, unless we win the lottery and taking one of the ADs as an inevitable quest, then obviously trading Andrea would be the ideal choice.

I wonder tho, what if we end up drafting Drummond and he can qualify as a Center. Should we be using Val as a trading chip to net ourselves another top 5 pick? Like a Barnes, or Lamb.

Drummond
Bargs
Barnes
Demar
PG

No, Drummond seems like he has crazy potential on offense, so you want to pair him with a defensive guy. I like the idea of a Drummond/Val frontcourt with Amir backing them up. Then you have Bargs and Ed for trade purposes.

[JamesNaismith]

idk about trading bargs, if he keeps it up he'd be a great 2nd option on offense for us, unless we win the lottery and taking one of the ADs as an inevitable quest, then obviously trading Andrea would be the ideal choice.

I wonder tho, what if we end up drafting Drummond and he can qualify as a Center. Should we be using Val as a trading chip to net ourselves another top 5 pick? Like a Barnes, or Lamb.

Drummond
Bargs
Barnes
Demar
PG

No, Drummond seems like he has crazy potential on offense, so you want to pair him with a defensive guy. I like the idea of a Drummond/Val frontcourt with Amir backing them up. Then you have Bargs and Ed for trade purposes.

I wouldn't say crazy but enough that it makes Andrea dispensible AND the thought of having a high-energy, hustling big man like Jonas next to him is just gravy. I would then love to shop Bargs with someone for an upgrade on the wing.

[CunningLinguist]

idk about trading bargs, if he keeps it up he'd be a great 2nd option on offense for us, unless we win the lottery and taking one of the ADs as an inevitable quest, then obviously trading Andrea would be the ideal choice.

I wonder tho, what if we end up drafting Drummond and he can qualify as a Center. Should we be using Val as a trading chip to net ourselves another top 5 pick? Like a Barnes, or Lamb.

Drummond
Bargs
Barnes
Demar
PG

No, Drummond seems like he has crazy potential on offense, so you want to pair him with a defensive guy. I like the idea of a Drummond/Val frontcourt with Amir backing them up. Then you have Bargs and Ed for trade purposes.

Drummond has crazy potential on both ends of the floor. He moves his feet extremely well and has great shotblocking instincts.

[Kid Canada]

Lamb is the guy we need. Demar will get a big heavier as he gets older and could play the 3. He is more suited to be a 3rd or 4th option SF.

Jose, Lamb, Demar, Bargnani, Val- Johnson, Ed, Amir, Bayless, Weems on the bench.

[Undefeated]

Drummond (Massive potential, but looks lost and passive at times. Offensive skill was overrated)

How is Drummond's offensive skill overrated? I mean, I'd be hard-pressed to say I've seen any big man prospect at age 18 display the ball handling, court vision and passing Drummond has. He's also displaying great footwork at UConn scoring his back behind the basket with an array of step backs, drop steps, and jump hooks. Far from overrated given how advanced he looks at his age.

[fredericklove]

Drummond (Massive potential, but looks lost and passive at times. Offensive skill was overrated)

How is Drummond's offensive skill overrated? I mean, I'd be hard-pressed to say I've seen any big man prospect at age 18 display the ball handling, court vision and passing Drummond has. He's also displaying great footwork at UConn scoring his back behind the basket with an array of step backs, drop steps, and jump hooks. Far from overrated given how advanced he looks at his age.

true, his offensive skills are pretty advanced and solid, but he indeed looks lost out there and passive, lacks motor enough to make you go "cmon bro, move your ass!"

[5DOM]

I want to see Drummond and Bargnani play together at least one game. That frontcourt would have better ball handling skills than our backcourt.