Jonas Valanciunas Summer Discussion Thread (Olympics!)

[LithuanianOne]

I don't remember now but has anyone pointed out that Jasikevicius finally decided to play for Lithuanian national team this summer ? JV should be very glad to hear this since Jasikevicius is still a mastermind of pick and roll - one of the biggest Jonas strenghts.

[Fairview4Life]

Just that there's more to being good in PnR than finishing often and keeping the ball high. There's also attracting the attention of the defense. Howard get's the attention of the defense, so he's good in pick and roll. Amir finishes pick and roll's a lot, but doesn't get as much attention from defenses. It has nothing to do with Jonas, but rather I'd noted Hank say it was news to him that Howard was good in pick and rolls, and I believe he is very good in pick and rolls, as the action creates great looks for his teammates.

Of course there is more to the pick and roll than finishing. But if the discussion is about finishing in pick and roll situations and someone makes this argument:

The problem with getting caught up in the "skills" he's shown with his pick and roll and finishing around the basket is that physically he's nowhere near being able to do that in the NBA regularly. You think Howard is great at the pick and roll because of his technique? All the great pick and roll guys, or finishers around the basket are that way because they're super-athletic with solid frames, or because they're powerhouses with solid athleticism. Technique alone just doesn't cut it.

then how is anything else other than finishing on the pick and roll relevant? He flat out said that all the players why are great at pick and rolls or finishing around the basket are so because they are super athletic or whatever. That is not true, as seen by the fact that a guy like Amir was one of the best finishers in pick and roll situations in the entire league. If someone says the best players at something meet these criteria, and they don't, we don't actually need much more context, do we?

[hankscorpioLA]

How did those 3 pt shooters get so open? I think it had a lot to do with defenders shading Dwight.

And why would Howard need to shoot from > 10ft when rolling? They "roll" to the rim don't they? they "pop" for the jumper.

Ask Karl Malone.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Yeah, I was just doing a drive by and noticed Hank say Howard wasn't good in PnR, and I didn't really bother to read the discussion. I tend to pay little attention to anything other than my own posts or comments thereon. My Bad. Carry on.

[JamesNaismith]

Just hope the kid isn't burnt out by playing year round and then having his 1st NBA season.


Here's hoping LIT doesn't qualify so he can rest a bit.

[redred9]

another guy great at finishing in the pick n roll is Tiago Splitter on the Spurs. That thing he has going with Manu is beautiful when they clear out with just those two on one side of the court. Just awesome.

Picknroll is about timing, speed and understanding- athleticism is obviously a bonus like in any basketball situation but it's DEFINATELY not a prerequisite. The whole idea of it is to evade and trick the defence, if a picknroll was all about having to use athleticism to finish on top of people then what is the point of running it? The idea is to get to the rim when the defence cannot react.

Jonas should even be able to picknpop as he extends his range as well which looks likely at some stage, and he is an excellent finisher around the rim.

Of course he'll struggle as a rookie centre but long term I think his outlook is great.

[hankscorpioLA]

Just hope the kid isn't burnt out by playing year round and then having his 1st NBA season.


Here's hoping LIT doesn't qualify so he can rest a bit.

I feel the complete opposite.

I hope Lithuania gets into the Olympics because the experience will be invaluable for Valanciunas.

I am not worried about Jonas being burned out. Although the seasons take longer to play, he hasn't played more games than in a regular NBA season - and he's only been averaging 23 minutes or so per game.

[hankscorpioLA]

What I am getting at is that Howard is good at one aspect of the pick and roll - he can finish around the rim.

But because he can't hit a jumper to save his life, he not only needs a point guard who can get him the ball in the right situation (which you pretty much always need to run the pick and roll), he also needs to have exceptional shooters that spread the floor. If they don't have the shooters, then they can't run the pick and roll with Howard.

Keep in mind as well that because Dwight also doesn't have much of a post game, Orlando also can't run any isolation settings for him. They pretty much HAVE to run the pick and roll.

Most of the players who have excelled in the pick and roll have done so because they could hit their own mid-range jump shot. Because they can either roll OR pop, defenses have to play them very differently than they play Dwight.

I don't want to say that Orlando hasn't been effective using the pick and roll - because they have. But I feel like their success has a lot more to do with the other players on the floor than it does with Dwight Howard.



Needless to say, however, that none of this really belongs in a thread about Jonas Valanciunas since, whatever sort of player he becomes, he is not going to be anything like Dwight Howard.

[raptor21_85]

Just hope the kid isn't burnt out by playing year round and then having his 1st NBA season.


Here's hoping LIT doesn't qualify so he can rest a bit.

you're being selfish.. you have to notice that Jonas is already aware of this.. He has already said that he will work hard..

[team edward]

1. Jonas will never be as effective as Dwight Howard at anything except jump shooting. Let's get that cleared up. DH is a perpetual all-star, gold medlaist and hall of famer.
2. Jonas compares himself Chris Bosh. Their frames are similar. They have very similar basketball skills. Jonas is a great PnR guy in Europe, but CB would also have been a great PnR guy in Europe. In the NBA, JV's added value will be in his all-around skilled game, energy and rebounding effort. Just like CB. Jonas is an inch or two taller and has an inch or two longer wingspan. Otherwise, he's Lithuanian CB, hopefully without the inferiority complex or strange girlfriend. If he can hit a simlar development arc (not a given) the Raps will be a force.

A smooth, fluid,...athlete who appears to glide around the court. Covers amazing ground on the court, moving quickly to change ends. Has a smooth shooting stroke out to collegiate three-point line, and made 48 percent of his occasional three-point field goal attempts. He is a quick jumper who waits for offensive player to commit before rising to block shot.

Very fluid athlete ... Runs the court well ... Good quickness and solid explosiveness/leaping ability ... Has a nice jump-shot from 8-12 feet away from the hoop ... Solid shot blocker with the potential to be very good in this area ... Has great shooting mechanics and an extraordinarily soft touch for a bigman

If the first quote didn't say "collegiate", you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[hankscorpioLA]

I don't know how anyone can say that Jonas "will never be as effective as Dwight Howard" before he has played a single game in the NBA. Dwight Howard is an exceptional player (though...apparently not the brightest of folk). How do you know Jonas won't be one as well?

[LithuanianOne]

1. Jonas will never be as effective as Dwight Howard at anything except jump shooting. Let's get that cleared up. DH is a perpetual all-star, gold medlaist and hall of famer.
2. Jonas compares himself Chris Bosh. Their frames are similar. They have very similar basketball skills. Jonas is a great PnR guy in Europe, but CB would also have been a great PnR guy in Europe. In the NBA, JV's added value will be in his all-around skilled game, energy and rebounding effort. Just like CB. Jonas is an inch or two taller and has an inch or two longer wingspan. Otherwise, he's Lithuanian CB, hopefully without the inferiority complex or strange girlfriend. If he can hit a simlar development arc (not a given) the Raps will be a force.

A smooth, fluid,...athlete who appears to glide around the court. Covers amazing ground on the court, moving quickly to change ends. Has a smooth shooting stroke out to collegiate three-point line, and made 48 percent of his occasional three-point field goal attempts. He is a quick jumper who waits for offensive player to commit before rising to block shot.

Very fluid athlete ... Runs the court well ... Good quickness and solid explosiveness/leaping ability ... Has a nice jump-shot from 8-12 feet away from the hoop ... Solid shot blocker with the potential to be very good in this area ... Has great shooting mechanics and an extraordinarily soft touch for a bigman

If the first quote didn't say "collegiate", you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Also a better free throw shooter ( that's almost a given) and I'd bet he becomes a better passer as well.

[S.W.A.N]

1. Jonas will never be as effective as Dwight Howard at anything except jump shooting. Let's get that cleared up. DH is a perpetual all-star, gold medlaist and hall of famer.
2. Jonas compares himself Chris Bosh. Their frames are similar. They have very similar basketball skills. Jonas is a great PnR guy in Europe, but CB would also have been a great PnR guy in Europe. In the NBA, JV's added value will be in his all-around skilled game, energy and rebounding effort. Just like CB. Jonas is an inch or two taller and has an inch or two longer wingspan. Otherwise, he's Lithuanian CB, hopefully without the inferiority complex or strange girlfriend. If he can hit a simlar development arc (not a given) the Raps will be a force.

A smooth, fluid,...athlete who appears to glide around the court. Covers amazing ground on the court, moving quickly to change ends. Has a smooth shooting stroke out to collegiate three-point line, and made 48 percent of his occasional three-point field goal attempts. He is a quick jumper who waits for offensive player to commit before rising to block shot.

Very fluid athlete ... Runs the court well ... Good quickness and solid explosiveness/leaping ability ... Has a nice jump-shot from 8-12 feet away from the hoop ... Solid shot blocker with the potential to be very good in this area ... Has great shooting mechanics and an extraordinarily soft touch for a bigman

If the first quote didn't say "collegiate", you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

No

Not even the best raptor comparison. I would call Val the Lithuanian Amir Johnson. Much closer in playing style offensively and defensively. And that is not a slight towards Val as a bigger stronger better shooting Amir Johnson is a stud.

The point is that Bosh is a quick explosive iso PF where Amir is a energy garbage guy who has great hands
but is not explosive. Val is not going to be a guy you just give the ball to 12 feet from the hoop and let him go to work. He is going to be a system guy, play pick and roll all day and get him some good feeds down low when he establishes good post position.

The things that will make him above average are that he has excellent technique and hands. His foul shooting alone is going to make him an above average center in the NBA.

And anyone saying that Vals pick and roll game won't translate to the NBA is talking out their rectum. Pick and Roll is about technique and understanding when to move. Val is going to be excellent at it because of his length and the way he keeps ball high, and when teams foul him to prevent easy baskets he is excellent at the line.

[lyricalmilitia]

The thing about Jonas as a prospect is that nothing about him is really Elite for NBA standards. His athleticism has been overrated around here, as it isn't at the level of Chandler, Mcgee, Ibaka etc.. Then when you add in his slight frame and lack of polished offensive moves, it is easy to see him end up as a low-end starter or high-end bench player. He just sorta seems average to me.

Although I just can't see the kid being a bust. The one thing busts have in common is a lack of heart. This kid has enough hustle that when you add it to the size and solid athleticism, he's going to make it in some sort of role in this league.

lol, hater! for the last time he isn't a kid,he's 20 years old

[Badatude]

7 feet.
A position that is hard to fill.
A top 5 pick.
Shot blocker.
A successful national team member.
Not just a best talent available pick but fits the team (we hope).

Not better than D.Howard or Wilt Chamberlain or ......

[Laowai]

I have high expectations for Jonas and am not worried about the weight issue ince he is 19.
Again all you have to do is look at Canby and JV has a much bigger body than Marcus.
Will he be pushed around by some of the large Cs in his 1st years the obvious answer is yes but then both Bargs & Gray will likely play more against them. Jonas will be good defensively rebounds, blocks and good help defense. His man to man will require some work but he has the athletic ability to do it.

Where Jonas will shine as he matures is offensively. Dwight is the gold standard for Cs offensively but the guy can't make a basket outside of 8 feet to save his soul and is a detriment in close games because he can't hit a free throw.

Jonas is as efficent in close as Dwight and has a excellent pick and roll. He has a mid range game developing and will likely be the best C at the line in the league. Jonas also has Bargs who spreads the floor like Hedo did for Dwight and Bargs is a under rated passer see him getting 3 to 4 next year.

We lack a solid 3pt shooter with our best being Klieza and Bargs at the moment and having Klieza is a asset. He can help as a coach yelling instructions while Jonas is on the court.

Yes he will have terrible games but also will have great ones.

In 3 to4 years he will be a top 5 C if not #1.

[just_iss]

The thing about Jonas as a prospect is that nothing about him is really Elite for NBA standards. His athleticism has been overrated around here, as it isn't at the level of Chandler, Mcgee, Ibaka etc.. Then when you add in his slight frame and lack of polished offensive moves, it is easy to see him end up as a low-end starter or high-end bench player. He just sorta seems average to me.

Although I just can't see the kid being a bust. The one thing busts have in common is a lack of heart. This kid has enough hustle that when you add it to the size and solid athleticism, he's going to make it in some sort of role in this league.

I think his rebounding, pick and roll game, and finishing around the basket are elite for NBA standards. That and strength is usually enough. We can call him elite FT shooter too, compared to NBA centers, he is one of the best.

I like his frame. He is not as huge as bumps like Perkins or Bynum, but he has wild shoulders and muscular body. I mean he is pretty skinny, but you can see him getting bigger constantly, and weight he gains is all muscle.

His athleticism has been grossly overrated at the time. I doubt athleticism will be a concern though, he can still throw high balls to him, he can run and his max vert isn't really that bad I think.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P85nrJT05HI[/youtube]

people think athletisism is just jumping if you add his jumping ability, body control, agility, and speed he is definitly one of the most athletic centers out there

[bballsparkin]

I'm not worried about Jonas at all. He's tall, lanky, skilled and works hard. He can shoot and seems to have a great attitude. I don't expect him to be an all-star, but am confident he will be a quality two way center. That's good enough for me. And of course he will continue to get bigger as he ages. Toronto is a sucker for lunch bucket players. And JV certainly shows up for work. Hopefully this season the Raps have another quality rookie player to take some of the attention also.

[SkywalkerAC]

I think Jonas has a great chance to make an allstar game in his career. he's built to produce - buckets and rebounds. the defense (and a coach's vote into the allstar game) may not be there for a few years but he plays the right way and I have no doubt that he's going to turn some heads with the passion and commitment he brings to the court.

Jonas dives to the rim a whole lot better than Bosh ever did but potential faceup game, the ability to get to the free throw line (and make them), and the lateral quicks make Bosh a non-ridiculous comparison for JV.

[pkiskool]

His athleticism is above average for an NBA starting center. Here's some starting centers that are more athletic than him, maybe you can add to the list but you're be hard pressed to find 15:

Biyombo
Noah
Chandler
Howard
Bynum
McGee
Jordan
Nene
Maybe Horford

He's definitely not below average. How many of those centers can hit a jump shot? Two? Three? How many have an effective hook off both blocks? Three? Four? How many can hit free throws over 80 percent? None. How many can hit free throws above 65%? 5. How many have shown a face up game? Three? Four? How many of those guys are over 6"11? Three? Four? How many of those guys regularly face double teams? Four? Among the athletes, he has an advantage of skill and length.

Solid post...
It is very encouraging to look at it this way.
I would only say 3 players are elite out of that list: Howard, Bynum, Chandler
Val already has equal skill/size sets with the rest and he can surpass them eventually.
Those 3 are hard to touch though.