State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[mojo13]

I get your point, they need to get some experience but it needs to be balanced as well. "Kids" and "up and coming" doesnt usually mix well in senior FIBA ball . If we want to qualify for the Olympics we have enough young NBA "kids" who don't understand FIBA ball. Our young guys routinely get schooled and bullied by the FIBA vets. We need a few well travelled Euro vets to help manage and teach the young ones. I still think English is the best of that bunch. The guy can still drop 30 on any given night in the Greek A-1 league. Yes...he can still go all Kobe too.

Maybe use the PanAm games to get a broad group of younger players some added experience, then cut it down and blend in the vets for the qualifying tournament.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Brady Heslip is a lights out shooter and I could see him being brought in as a 4th/5th guard. He had some success with the Senior team.

Good call with Brady Heslip. I forgot about that dude. I wonder if he would be capable of a Lou Will type role in Fiba competition? He doesn't provide much else than scoring, but in the D-League this year he tore that **** up. 28.5 points per 36 minutes, on .649ts% is sick, and his .440 3pt% through college, and the d-league is an absolute monster asset to have in Fiba ball.

I think he definitely makes the team this summer, although his long term future is murky. English and Rautins give you more beyond just the 3 point shooting, but I wouldn't be surprised if Heslip is now ahead of them on the depth chart.

There really aren't a lot of dynamic wing guys in Fiba that would force Heslip to sit for defensive reasons. With CoJo and potentially Wiggins also out there he would never be facing the top guard/wing anyways. He isn't as limited offensively as say a Steve Novak, but that doesn't mean you want the ball in his hands or that he is going to be showcasing a well rounded offensive game.

I think the biggest obstacle is potential playing time. I would imagine the 2 PG line-up with Ennis and CoJo would get some burn, but I think Stauskas is the biggest obstacle. He has similar shooting ability, but he has a much more well rounded offensive game. If Wiggins plays the 2 and Bennett or someone else gets some burn at the 3 that further impacts any time available.

That being said, as a guy who comes in and spreads the floor and takes 3's he is a nice weapon to have available. Even if its for 10 minutes a game he could definitely swing the momentum in Canada's favour.

[Undefeated]

If we want to qualify for the Olympics we have enough young NBA "kids" who don't understand FIBA ball. Our young guys routinely get schooled and bullied by the FIBA vets.

A lot of them have FIBA experience playing for their U16/U17, so it's not like a lot of them will be exposed to FIBA ball for the first time.

[slothrop8]

If there's good participation - the overall talent level of this team is very impressive. I'm not as concerned as some about our young guys getting bullied by FIBA veterans this time around. Other than Joel Anthony - the few NBA players we had in 2013 were just starting out their pro careers. Now, those guys like Joseph, Thompson, and Nicholson have all played hundreds of NBA games each, and Joseph even has a ring now. Olynyk's played 2 seasons and might be headed to the playoffs, Sacre has played 3 seasons, Wiggins will be Rookie of the Year. These guys are used to high level competition from the best in the world - I think the core of this team will be mature despite it's relative youth. This is a team that should qualify this summer - I'll be very disappointed if we have to go to the last chance qualifying tournament - and stunned if we don't even make that.

[Hendrix]

Some of my random thoughts:

1. I agree that many overestimate the young prospects and their chances to get to an elite Senior Men's Team level. Most of the high-school and young college prospects mentioned above will not sniff the NBA (recall Kabongo, Myck). Some may become SMNT members down the road, but I'd leave the kids out of the current team discussions until we know they are more relevant. Trey Lyles you may now enter the conversation.
2. NBA rotation level talent (or above) or Euro near All-star is the bar I think we should be setting for guys who will be meaningful contributors to the success of the SMNT. I think our very good Euro FIBA player is more valuable than an NBA scrub.
3. Many people here underestimate the vast difference in FIBA play from North American play. Very different set of rules and play. It is a weird mix that on one hand rewards team play, fundamentally skilled players but also a very rough aggressive play style (lots of clutching, grabbing, elbows etc.). I think it purposely hampers individual athleticism to try to allow the Euro's to compete with the USA. Regardless, don't underestimate the value of FIBA experience. We really need some guys playing in Europe to be key pieces of this team - Carl English, Devoe Joseph, Kris Joseph, Brady Heslip, Melvin Ejim, Jehvon Shepard, Andy Rautins, Levon Kendall. I don't know who, but two or three of those guys need to be on this summer's team.
4. Tristan Thompson is overrated for FIBA play, he will be useful but not a key component
5. Kelly Olynyk is underrated and will be the key cog besides Wiggins and Cory Joseph.
6. Carl English is underrated (see #3 above) and his absence was a key reason why we failed to qualify for the worlds.
7. We will really need the size/strength / D of Robert Sacre at some point. I have a very poor opinion of Bhullar, but we may need him at some point in the next few years too.
8. I sure hope Sauce Castillo is not as bad as he has shown this year (36% FG/31% 3PT). We really need a Stauskas type on the wing.
9. Anthony Bennett never has successfully played the three. Please dont call him a three. Ask him yourself.
10. Khem Birch and Dwight Powell have really torn up the D-league this year, I have high hopes for them down the road.
11. Really appreciate Frumble, Hendrix and Bhudda's commentary on the SMNT....being reading your posts for some time.

Regarding some of the points here.

I'm unsure on Tristan Thompson. Like, when you look at him his game doesn't scream "FIBA", absolutely. But, defense is still 50% of the game, and a mobile defender like him is still a pretty great thing to have in FIBA. Especially when playing vs. teams that can stretch you out to the 3 pt line, and play P+R, you want a big man that isn't slow and lumbering defensively. TT should excel on the defensive end in FIBA I would think. Offensively, he doesn't seem like he'd be great, but maybe with stretch bigs, like Olynyk, and Witljer, he'll find himself a role offensive rebounding, and setting screens.

I agree that many of the prospects I listed in the OP aren't getting to the NBA. Especially since we don't have many 5 star recruits in the lot of them. But, I'm just throwing the names out there as guys to follow, and if even 1 or 2 out of 50 make it as good NBA players, it could make a big difference to the SMNT imo. All of a sudden then you aren't relying on mediocre guys like Bennett.

Agreed about some of our European guys being better than some of the fringe NBA players. Bennett for example, is straight up not a good basketball player at this point, and wouldn't be doing much regardless of the league he's in.

I really hope Stauskas turns it around too. We could reallllyyyy use a high end player with his skill set. Especially in FIBA style ball. Especially next to Wiggins skillset. He has the capabilities of turning into a FIBA ball monster. Personally I think he'll get better. I watched a decent amount of him at Michigan, and he's better than he's shown. Not a doubt in my mind. He straight up, is not a 31% 3pt shooter in the NBA, or a .366% guy overall. Imo, he needed to improve defensively in this league, and was getting very sporadic minutes early on because of that, which effected his offensive game. You aren't going to get in a flow when a lot of games you are only out there for a 4 minute stretch at a time, and they aren't running plays for you. By the time you get warm, and take 1 shot, you're back on the bench again. Lately he's been getting more minutes, and shooting ~.600ts% over the last 17 games. I'm not really sure where he turns into down the road, but I think Stauskas is better than he's shown, and there's plenty of shooters like Peja, and JJ Redick, that started out their career slow, then panned out. If Stauskas could even get to Redick's level that would be huge for the SMNT.

[slothrop8]

I think Stauskas is going to be fine. He's still very young and adjusting to the speed of the NBA game on a terrible team. His shooting is for real ans he's athletic enough - it might take a couple seasons but he'll eventually be a solid NBA rotation player. He's going to be able to knock down shots for Canada and provide spacing right away = I'm honestly not worried about him at the international level at all - I think he'll be a weapon for us.

[SharoneWright]

I posted it in the other thread, but this is my provisional team:

1. Joseph, Ennis, (Hanlan)
2. Stauskas, Hanlan, (Wiggins), (Joseph)
3. Wiggins, Lyles, Ejim, (Bennett)
4. Thompson, Nicholson, Bennett, (Lyles)
5. Olynyk, Sacre, (Thompson)

> a slight bet on Hanlan, but kid is good and gonna get drafted, and has the versatility we need to backup at the 1 and 2
>> playing Lyles as primarily a backup 3 -- we don't need him yet at the 4 and I'd rather see him out there at this stage at the 3 than Doornekamp or even Pierre (though I still hope for Dyshawn - was good again in the tourney this year)
>>> Ejim another safe player to back up the 3 who doesn't make mistakes - a suitable limed role for him

NB- I would accept Heslip on the team over Hanlan, but not at the expense of having to give another roster spot to a 3rd string PG -- i.e.. Hanlan could play the point,, Heslip can not.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Faried's game didn't scream success in FIBA play, but he really carved out a nice niche on Team USA.

Thompson hasn't developed into a defensive presence like a lot of people hoped he would, but he at least gives you good effort and has a good combination of length and mobility/athleticism. He doesn't give you much offensively, but he can play above the rim.

The biggest thing he brings though is his offensive rebounding. He is an elite offensive rebounder against NBA competition and athletes. Faried with his motor and athleticism really dominated at times and I think TT can provide a lot of what Faried did for Team USA.

I think playing next to Olynyk will help him a lot. Olynyk provides spacing and he is a good passing big man. Defensively that unit may not be ideal, but if Wiggins and CoJo are out there too you shouldn't be at a disadvantage against many teams.

[aminiaturebuddha]

>> playing Lyles as primarily a backup 3 -- we don't need him yet at the 4 and I'd rather see him out there at this stage at the 3 than Doornekamp or even Pierre (though I still hope for Dyshawn - was good again in the tourney this year)

I'm with you on preferring a roster spot for Lyles over Doornekamp (I'm a self-admitted Doornekamp hater - I just don't think he adds anything to the team), but I don't want to see Lyles playing any minutes at the 3. He was really only playing the 3 at Kentucky because Calipari needed to find minutes for Towns, Cauley-Stein, Dakari Johnson and sometimes Marcus Lee. He's a good shooter for a freshman PF, but that's as far as it goes. Having him out there at the 3 in international play would hurt spacing and also cause problems defensively, in my opinion.

I'm very high on Lyles over all, and think he'll be an absolute steal for any team in the upcoming draft if he lasts beyond the first 10 picks. In the future he'll probably be the best Canadian player after Wiggins. But this summer I'm not sure there's room for him on the team, at least, not the qualifying tournament team. Maybe he can play for the Pan-Am team to get him some more international experience and prepare him for the Olympics and beyond.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Faried's game didn't scream success in FIBA play, but he really carved out a nice niche on Team USA.

Thompson hasn't developed into a defensive presence like a lot of people hoped he would, but he at least gives you good effort and has a good combination of length and mobility/athleticism. He doesn't give you much offensively, but he can play above the rim.

The biggest thing he brings though is his offensive rebounding. He is an elite offensive rebounder against NBA competition and athletes. Faried with his motor and athleticism really dominated at times and I think TT can provide a lot of what Faried did for Team USA.

I think playing next to Olynyk will help him a lot. Olynyk provides spacing and he is a good passing big man. Defensively that unit may not be ideal, but if Wiggins and CoJo are out there too you shouldn't be at a disadvantage against many teams.

Yep, I still think Thompson is going to be a very useful component of the NT for years to come - provided that he's paired with a good shooting big. Those Thompson-Joel Anthony lineups that were used at times in 2013 were absolute death for spacing on offence and should never be repeated. But provided that TT is paired with Olynyk or Nicholson (and infrequently Powell), he can bring all of the benefits you mentioned and not hurt the offensive flow.

With the depth and versatility that we'll have, Triano should entertain no thoughts of having TT on the floor at the same time with Anthony or Sacre except in very specific single-play defensive situations.

[Mattd97]

for anyone not sure if heslip will be on the team - he will. between his commitment in the past and his relationship with triano, he'll be on teh roster until its outlandish for him to be. thankfully this time around thats not necessarily a bad thing as it makes sense for him to be a back up shooter

[frumble]

Frumble - I like your list above of players likely to be included in the program over the next 2 years at the senior level (I assume you were thinking this would be the pool for this year and next as well if we qualify for the Olympics). I'm guessing that Devoe Joseph will be kicking around on the fringes as well, especially since he's played for the NT in the recent past.

I would love for Hanlan to commit and show enough to force their hand. I thought he was quite impressive this year, and has really worked on some of his weaknesses. It's probably unlikely that he would bump Heslip from the team in that 5th guard spot (assuming Stauskas, English, Joseph and Ennis have the others), but he can bring so much more than just the pure shooting that Heslip brings. It would be nice to have that versatility. However, as a likely 2nd round pick who might be without a guaranteed contract until late in the summer, this could be bad timing for him and the program.

I left D. Joseph off because his experience with the National Team last time around didn't seem that good (not much playing time, poor performance), and because he hasn't played that well in Europe last couple of seasons. But you are right, he still could be around the fringes.

Re Hanlan, yes, as a second round pick he likely would not have a contract. But I am hoping he stays at BC for his senior year rather than coming out now. (which I guess just defers the problem until next summer).

Which guys do we have who may not be under contract this summer? I believe Thompson, Nicholson, and C. Joseph will all be free agents. Pangos and P. Scrubb will be looking for their first contracts. Not sure about the Euro league guys.

Re TT, I agree that there is a place for him on the team provided he is paired with the right guy. We have Olynyk and either Nicholson or Powell (I figure one of them makes the team) as bigs with range.

Also agree that would be a mistake to think of Bennett, Lyles, or Ejim as a 3. As much depth as we have at 4, and as weak as we are at wing, it is very tempting, but it is not going to happen (or at least it shouldn't happen). We are stuck with Shepherd, Doornekamp, or Pierre at 3 if Wiggins and K. Joseph don't show.

[mojo13]

I didn't mean to desparage TT. I think he has an important role, but is not the key piece some people may have historically thought. He is also more easily replaceable than some other people/positions. But to think he could do anything near what Faried did last year would have me excited.

You'd think Stauskas (and English) could spend some time at the 3 if needed. But the 3 is still a glaring weakness that doesnt have an obvious person to fill it in the next few years. There is talk of Wiltjer playing the 3 at Gonzaga next year - I am not sure if I see it (he is just too slow to defend 3s). And hopefully Pierre gets back to playing the 3 next year - he always seems to be under everyones radar. I still have hopes for Kris Joseph to step up.

I cringed at the thought of Heslip on the SMNT last year, but I'd have to say his play in the D and Europe this year makes me believe he will be a valuable piece for the SMNT (not just Triano/Nash nepotism) - his range has been mind boggleing this year.

I agree that I don't have high hopes this summer for rookies looking for their first contract (Lyles, Pangos, Hanlan etc.) - they will be too focused auditioning in summer league (Pangos) or need to commit to the summer plans of the team that drafts them (Lyles). It may even impact the committment of young unsigned players (Birch, Bachynski, Heslip) - who knows, perhaps being on the SMNT helps their cause with potential contracts.

And let's hope free agents like TT, CJ and Nicholson get contracts buttoned up asap we are going to need them (especially CJ).

[aminiaturebuddha]

Re Hanlan, yes, as a second round pick he likely would not have a contract. But I am hoping he stays at BC for his senior year rather than coming out now. (which I guess just defers the problem until next summer).

The big problem in Hanlan's case is that Boston College is just a terrible basketball team, and with 3 of the other 4 starters graduating this year, it probably won't get much better in 2015-2016. So Hanlan is facing a situation where he would be coming back knowing that he's likely to continue losing lots of games, and with very little hope of playing in a significant post-season tournament (not even the NIT). So would improving his PG skills, and bumping up his stats a little bit be enough to get him into the 1st round of the draft as a senior? I'm skeptical that it would be.

I'm sure he's carefully weighing all these factors right now, but if I was a betting man, I would say that he'll declare for the draft, get picked in the 2nd round, find his way onto an NBA roster for the start of next season, and end up playing quite a bit in the D-league for the first part of the season.

[SharoneWright]

One of the world's most exciting basketball prospects, 216cm tall Thon Maker, says he wants to play for Australia.

The 18-year-old, who will likely compete with another Australian teenager, Ben Simmons, to be the number one pick in next year's NBA Draft, is completing his final year of high school in Canada.

Maker was born in Sudan, raised in Australia and in 2012 moved to the US to further his basketball career.

A question mark has hung over what nation he will choose to play with at the Olympics and World Cups.

"As of right now I'm doing everything I can to play for Australia," Maker told sports website tipofthetower.com.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/ ... mer0n.html

[frumble]

Re Hanlan, yes, as a second round pick he likely would not have a contract. But I am hoping he stays at BC for his senior year rather than coming out now. (which I guess just defers the problem until next summer).

The big problem in Hanlan's case is that Boston College is just a terrible basketball team, and with 3 of the other 4 starters graduating this year, it probably won't get much better in 2015-2016. So Hanlan is facing a situation where he would be coming back knowing that he's likely to continue losing lots of games, and with very little hope of playing in a significant post-season tournament (not even the NIT). So would improving his PG skills, and bumping up his stats a little bit be enough to get him into the 1st round of the draft as a senior? I'm skeptical that it would be.

I'm sure he's carefully weighing all these factors right now, but if I was a betting man, I would say that he'll declare for the draft, get picked in the 2nd round, find his way onto an NBA roster for the start of next season, and end up playing quite a bit in the D-league for the first part of the season.

I didn't realize things were looking even worse for BC next season.

If he does come out this year, I think your prediction is likely to be accurate. In terms of what it means for participation for Canada, Powell was in a similar boat last summer, but played. So maybe Hanlan will too.

[mojo13]

Things not going so well for Kris Joseph in France.

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rev=search

[frumble]

I didn't mean to desparage TT. I think he has an important role, but is not the key piece some people may have historically thought. He is also more easily replaceable than some other people/positions. But to think he could do anything near what Faried did last year would have me excited.

You'd think Stauskas (and English) could spend some time at the 3 if needed. But the 3 is still a glaring weakness that doesnt have an obvious person to fill it in the next few years. There is talk of Wiltjer playing the 3 at Gonzaga next year - I am not sure if I see it (he is just too slow to defend 3s). And hopefully Pierre gets back to playing the 3 next year - he always seems to be under everyones radar. I still have hopes for Kris Joseph to step up.

I cringed at the thought of Heslip on the SMNT last year, but I'd have to say his play in the D and Europe this year makes me believe he will be a valuable piece for the SMNT (not just Triano/Nash nepotism) - his range has been mind boggleing this year.

I agree that I don't have high hopes this summer for rookies looking for their first contract (Lyles, Pangos, Hanlan etc.) - they will be too focused auditioning in summer league (Pangos) or need to commit to the summer plans of the team that drafts them (Lyles). It may even impact the committment of young unsigned players (Birch, Bachynski, Heslip) - who knows, perhaps being on the SMNT helps their cause with potential contracts.

And let's hope free agents like TT, CJ and Nicholson get contracts buttoned up asap we are going to need them (especially CJ).

I think we are in agreement re TT - if Canada is counting on him to be a scorer, we are in trouble. But if his role is to provide about 20-25 minutes a game of solid interior D and rebounding, we should be o.k.

Re the 3, I like K. Joseph and Pierre much better than Shepherd and Doornekamp. Aside from the obvious - Wiggins, Stauskas, etc. - I think K. Joseph could be the most important recruiting target for Nash/Triano/Barrett this summer.

Re future candidates to help out at the 3, I think Dillon Brooks is a possibility.

[Chaos Engine]

Anyone who thought Thon Maker would play for Canada was kidding themselves.

[mojo13]

Anyone who thought Thon Maker would play for Canada was kidding themselves.

I agree it is a pretty silly thought - I think citizenship is a pre-requisite. Look at the circus of trying to get Matt Bonner to play for Canada (embarassing). I am proud that Canada acts like a mature country in matters like this, citizenship shouldn’t be handed out lightly lest you look like a third world country. <cough> Philippines <cough>, <cough> Blatche <cough>