Masai and Bobby are Asleep at the Wheel

[MixxSRC]

I'm not really for small fixes right now. But I feel like that because I think they need to get the best draft pick they can. Some of the moves or lack of them do read like stealth tank moves by Masai or at very least not very pro-win now moves. But hard to say what their plan is until we see what they do with Lowry and Powell.

[fbalmeida]

fbalmeida, you should have waited 1 more week to post this. We will see Masai/Bobby's full intentions for our team on the trading deadline day (March 25)

I genuinely hope so. *lights a candle*

[tecumseh18]

We didn't add at the 2019/2020 season trade deadline when we looked strong enough for another finals appearance, why would people expect Masai/Bobby add any significant piece this trade deadline, when our team is decimated by covid and below 0.500?

What was our weakness that needed addressing last season? Raps had the second best record in the league and swept the team that ended up being champion. We even beat the Heat in the bubble. Did the Cs beat us because they traded for a player at the deadline?

We lacked a half-court offense creator / ISO scorer - aka a "Kawhi"- last season. This became evident in the boston series.

BTW, for three consecutive seasons, 2017-18, 2018-19, and 2019-20, Raps had a better winning percentage WITHOUT Kawhi in the lineup than with.

But yes, having "a Kawhi" is always handy, especially in the playoffs. But no-one could have predicted that All-Star starter, 2nd team all-NBA Pascal Siakam would turn back into a pumpkin in the bubble - well after the trade deadline.

Who is this "Kawhi-ish" player Masai could have traded for? Who was available?

[ATLTimekeeper]

So in two short years Masai and Bobby have gone from being the #1 NBA executive team to a couple of bumbling clowns asleep at the wheel, without a plan?

Interesting.

Not at all. They are who we know they are. I don't think any Raptors fan would want any other team's front office instead. All this thread is saying, is that I have no damn clue why they haven't balanced and improved the roster this late into the season with harmless transactions, as others teams have, successfully.

I'm sure they have a reason. So in effect, I'm the bumbling clown that can't figure out their plan.

Yeah, but your argument is nonsense. They've used two 10 days recently. That's what you've asked for, and they've done it. They just didn't sign the guy you think worked out for another team.

As for roster balance, the team had completely corrected itself after their terrible start, and then lost 3/5ths of their starters to covid. Damion Jones and Willy Hernangomez aren't fixing that. Like, the Lakers weren't trying to keep cap space cleared for Giannis, so they built their team differently and have spent oodles of money, some of it badly, on this really deep, championship quality-team. The Raptors tried to run back last year's team, lost both Serge and Marc in FA for varying reasons, but they tried. They took the best available short-term commitments afterward, and one of them (Boucher) worked out stupendously.

[fbalmeida]

So in two short years Masai and Bobby have gone from being the #1 NBA executive team to a couple of bumbling clowns asleep at the wheel, without a plan?

Interesting.

Not at all. They are who we know they are. I don't think any Raptors fan would want any other team's front office instead. All this thread is saying, is that I have no damn clue why they haven't balanced and improved the roster this late into the season with harmless transactions, as others teams have, successfully.

I'm sure they have a reason. So in effect, I'm the bumbling clown that can't figure out their plan.

Yeah, but your argument is nonsense. They've used two 10 days recently. That's what you've asked for, and they've done it. They just didn't sign the guy you think worked out for another team.

As for roster balance, the team had completely corrected itself after their terrible start, and then lost 3/5ths of their starters to covid. Damion Jones and Willy Hernangomez aren't fixing that. Like, the Lakers weren't trying to keep cap space cleared for Giannis, so they built their team differently and have spent oodles of money, some of it badly, on this really deep, championship quality-team. The Raptors tried to run back last year's team, lost both Serge and Marc in FA for varying reasons, but they tried. They took the best available short-term commitments afterward, and one of them (Boucher) worked out stupendously.

I didn't ask for a 10-day contract signing to stock the 905. I'm asking them to balance the roster and give the team a fighting chance. A dirt cheap able-bodied center who can provide some semblance of defense against players not named Embiid, and finish at the rim. The two 10-day guys don't address that.

My argument is fairly simple. The team has needs that could've and should've been addressed, to some degree, by now.

[Anticon]

The level of transparency is a bit odd, but then it's an odd situation all around: playing in another city and without the teams true leader having a long term deal.

But I think the flaw is the OPs premise is that we should be making win now moves. At the deadline, don't expect anything that isn't moreso a win later move.

Whatever record we get, this is a lost season that'll looks to be our first time losing in the first round since 2015, if they even make the playoffs. What's the real value of tinkering at the edges when the result won't change?

I agree there's a bit of an issue in terms of choosing a lane, but jamming up the roster further when they've made large commitments to certain players isn't a step they're going to take.

[TheBoi10]

Might be evidence of a slight tank. It makes sense.

As a manager of a NBA team it must be hard to keep fans happy and improve every year.

They'll say this year was tough. Played out of a hotel, protocol, uncertainty, etc.

Next season the record is better. Label that on organic growth. Get hopeful for playoffs. Everyone keeps their jobs.

It makes sense from a contention point of view. I would argue that Cade turns us into a contender.

He's a big two guard. That and a playmaking defensive center is exactly what we're missing.

Sounds like a cope bro lmao

[fbalmeida]

The level of transparency is a bit odd, but then it's an odd situation all around: playing in another city and without the teams true leader having a long term deal.

But I think the flaw is the OPs premise is that we should be making win now moves. At the deadline, don't expect anything that isn't moreso a win later move.

Whatever record we get, this is a lost season that'll looks to be our first time losing in the first round since 2015, if they even make the playoffs. What's the real value of tinkering at the edges when the result won't change?

I agree there's a bit of an issue in terms of choosing a lane, but jamming up the roster further when they've made large commitments to certain players isn't a step they're going to take.

To clarify, my premise isn't that we had to have made a win-now move by now, but that we should've made a lose-a-bit-less move by now. A minor trade or 10-day contract to balance the roster, in the wake of Len getting waived. It's my opinion that if we had landed an ersatz Damien Jones or made a minor roster balancing move, that maybe we could've, as Nurse stated, "picked off at least one of these games".

[Yeezus_]

1. Why do you guys think its some sort of norm for executives to come out in the media to tell them the direction of the team? When do good executives ever do this? Even if they did come out to the media, they aren't stating the direction the team will be heading. Masai will say its about winning and blah blah. Then yall will still attack him lmao.
2. Just because they didn't sign Damien Jones, they are asleep at the wheel?

Its funny to me how irrational and illogical this fanbase it. It's like we're playing 2k and if things don't happen i.e. trades/signings, the team is "not doing anything"

Some of yall went from Masai is the best executive in the league to he's awful. It's embarrassing.

[fbalmeida]

1. Why do you guys think its some sort of norm for executives to come out in the media to tell them the direction of the team? lmao
2. Just because they didn't sign Damien Jones, they are asleep at the wheel?

Its funny to me how irrational and illogical this fanbase it. It's like we're playing 2k and if things don't happen i.e. trades/signings, the team is "not doing anything"

Some of yall went from Masai is the best executive in the league to he's awful. It's embarrassing.

1. It would be nice and reassuring to hear anything from them at this point. On any subject.

2. I think they are asleep at the wheel because they've passed on even attempting to mitigate the team's clear and evident weakness at Center. And again, I'm not clamouring for them to trade for Vucevic or Myles Turner. We're clearly undermanned and undersized at Center, often leading to crippling defensive breakdowns even when at full strength. And the latency in at least even partially plugging this problem has cost us.

2a. I've never played 2k in my life.

2b. Masai is still the greatest. I just can't figure out why he'd let the team sink or swim without even trying to get a Center to replace Len. We did go on a 10-5 stretch just before Covid-19, but even in those games, it was fairly evident that we could've used more size in the paint. To me they're like a hockey team that has one goalie on its roster and is content to rely on the Zamboni driver when a backup is needed, instead of getting a cheap serviceable backup.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Not at all. They are who we know they are. I don't think any Raptors fan would want any other team's front office instead. All this thread is saying, is that I have no damn clue why they haven't balanced and improved the roster this late into the season with harmless transactions, as others teams have, successfully.

I'm sure they have a reason. So in effect, I'm the bumbling clown that can't figure out their plan.

Yeah, but your argument is nonsense. They've used two 10 days recently. That's what you've asked for, and they've done it. They just didn't sign the guy you think worked out for another team.

As for roster balance, the team had completely corrected itself after their terrible start, and then lost 3/5ths of their starters to covid. Damion Jones and Willy Hernangomez aren't fixing that. Like, the Lakers weren't trying to keep cap space cleared for Giannis, so they built their team differently and have spent oodles of money, some of it badly, on this really deep, championship quality-team. The Raptors tried to run back last year's team, lost both Serge and Marc in FA for varying reasons, but they tried. They took the best available short-term commitments afterward, and one of them (Boucher) worked out stupendously.

I didn't ask for a 10-day contract signing to stock the 905. I'm asking them to balance the roster and give the team a fighting chance. A dirt cheap able-bodied center who can provide some semblance of defense against players not named Embiid, and finish at the rim. The two 10-day guys don't address that.

My argument is fairly simple. The team has needs that could've and should've been addressed, to some degree, by now.

And so on February 26th, they pick up a recently waived Damian Jones on a 10-day contract.

He's nothing special.
25 years old.
6-11.
245 pounds.
An able bodied Center.

When the Raptors signed Donta Hall they were just off beating Milwaukee 2X and Philly, with Aron Baynes help in shutting Embiid down twice. So yeah, he didn't play. Then they signed Ellenson and he played, and played pretty well. Your argument is simple, and weak. Aaron Baynes isn't the difference between getting waxed by Charlotte and Chicago on a back-to-back. He wasn't the one leaving Tony Snell open. He wasn't the one letting Wayne Ellington have a career night. Everything that's happening right now is the result of losing several starters at the same time and making the choice to preserve assets/cap space for the future. That's not falling asleep. That's being disciplined and suffering from some bad luck.

[Ref_from_hell]

I don't think there's anything wrong with management coming out and saying a few words about the direction of the team. I don't think that gives anything away or hurts us when it comes to transactions.

Nobody cared about it last year because we had one of the best teams in the league. This year, even when healthy, we have glaring needs. For one thing, we have a center who makes last year's Gasol look like a prime MVP candidate. I'm sure management is aware of those needs. Hopefully it's addressed.

[StringerBell]

Stealth tank... Kidding but not really.

If they lose 3 of next 4 and are closer to 3rd from the bottom than the 9th seed, I fully expect Lowry and Powell to get traded and the "injuries" to pile up.... At least I hope so. This is the year to do it.

[fbalmeida]

Yeah, but your argument is nonsense. They've used two 10 days recently. That's what you've asked for, and they've done it. They just didn't sign the guy you think worked out for another team.

As for roster balance, the team had completely corrected itself after their terrible start, and then lost 3/5ths of their starters to covid. Damion Jones and Willy Hernangomez aren't fixing that. Like, the Lakers weren't trying to keep cap space cleared for Giannis, so they built their team differently and have spent oodles of money, some of it badly, on this really deep, championship quality-team. The Raptors tried to run back last year's team, lost both Serge and Marc in FA for varying reasons, but they tried. They took the best available short-term commitments afterward, and one of them (Boucher) worked out stupendously.

I didn't ask for a 10-day contract signing to stock the 905. I'm asking them to balance the roster and give the team a fighting chance. A dirt cheap able-bodied center who can provide some semblance of defense against players not named Embiid, and finish at the rim. The two 10-day guys don't address that.

My argument is fairly simple. The team has needs that could've and should've been addressed, to some degree, by now.

And so on February 26th, they pick up a recently waived Damian Jones on a 10-day contract.

He's nothing special.
25 years old.
6-11.
245 pounds.
An able bodied Center.

When the Raptors signed Donta Hall they were just off beating Milwaukee 2X and Philly, with Aron Baynes help in shutting Embiid down twice. So yeah, he didn't play. Then they signed Ellenson and he played, and played pretty well. Your argument is simple, and weak. Aaron Baynes isn't the difference between getting waxed by Charlotte and Chicago on a back-to-back. He wasn't the one leaving Tony Snell open. He wasn't the one letting Wayne Ellington have a career night. Everything that's happening right now is the result of losing several starters at the same time and making the choice to preserve assets/cap space for the future. That's not falling asleep. That's being disciplined and suffering from some bad luck.

I suspect a lot, if not most of the defensive breakdowns are due to overthinking about help defense into the paint. Norm missed Snell because he was overplayed the cut while looking at Trae driving into the paint.

Whatever the cause, I think it's fairly uncontroversial that the team needed one more center from the moment we let go of Len. Despite Ellenson's 11th hour call-up, for most of the season we had gone from:

Gasol / Ibaka / Boucher to
Baynes / Boucher / nobody.

[Gubbu2019]

I agree with the OP 100 percent.
Masai and Bobby have done nothing to improve this team whatsoever in 2 years.
Masai failed with the ibaka and gasol replacements, then failed with his Giannis plan. It happens, but to not say a single word all season, and then possibly plan ur escape route at the end of the season is unfair to the current players on the team who deserve better.

I'm a fan of Masai and his business acumen. But to deny that he failed this team is not being genuine. Even a word of encouragement would do wonders for the players.

[2muchTLC]

Stealth tank... Kidding but not really.

If they lose 3 of next 4 and are closer to 3rd from the bottom than the 9th seed, I fully expect Lowry and Powell to get traded and the "injuries" to pile up.... At least I hope so. This is the year to do it.

If GSW can stealth tank last year while sitting a MVP, raptors can do it in a year with a stacked draft

[ATLTimekeeper]

I suspect a lot, if not most of the defensive breakdowns are due to overthinking about help defense into the paint. Norm missed Snell because he was overplayed the cut while looking at Trae driving into the paint.

Whatever the cause, I think it's fairly uncontroversial that the team needed one more center from the moment we let go of Len. Despite Ellenson's 11th hour call-up, for most of the season we had gone from:

Gasol / Ibaka / Boucher to
Baynes / Boucher / nobody.

Norm said he didn't see Lowry. Baynes wasn't even on the floor.

They were missing Gasol for big portions of last season, too. Boucher's been great. Easily replaced Serge. Maybe the team was waiting for the trade deadline, or the Kyle situation to materialize, or the didn't want to send out picks or young players for a stop-gap solution.

They were getting beaten with Len, too. I think you're overrating the impact of this one position player. Baynes has been bad, but the reason the Raptors were losing so many games early is that Siakam was atrocious and OG and Norm were also quite bad. When everything normalized, they were a good team again.

What's controversial is the notion that it's due to negligence or laziness. I've already figured out many rationalizations for why they didn't make a bigger move, but none are as dramatic as an attack. And given the recent nature of some of these criticisms of the FO, including needing to hear their sweet voices, or needing to hear Baynes face the music in the media, it's important to remember that these are the same guys that stared down all the panac voices of the past and just made strong trades and solid draft choices. They won't ever be perfect, but there's a growing trend to put them on blast for strange reasons.

[ruckus]

Theres a big difference between us signing a player to a 10-day vs the Lakers signing someone to a 10-day. We need to remember that there are only 10 players on the court at any single time so having the best player among those 10 makes a huge difference. Whenever Lebron is on the floor, the Lakers unequivocally have the best player on the court during those minutes. The Raptors have no such luxury. I don't say it as a slight to Lowry or Norm or anyone else on our team but the fact of the matter is, the Raptors success is built through teamwork not individual play. The margin of error when you have the best player on the floor is so much greater vs the team that kinda needs to hit on all cylinders in order to win.

However, I do agree that in a down season such as this one, our front office seems kinda quiet. Maybe they're trying to run a stealth tank - don't make any moves to actively get worse but also, don't make any moves to actively get better - and let the record fall where the record falls whether its low playoffs or lottery.

[Oakvillehoops]

lol pls stop troll

Which of the facts I mentioned are trolling? Research all the known details on those transactions. Ibaka was the first trade ever that Lowry demanded the team make. And fact FVV didn’t get cut because of Kyle.

All of them?

The part about Lowry demanding the Ibaka trade is made up.
The part about FVV getting cut unless Kyle stepped in is made up.
The part about Kyle pushing for Gasol is made up.

If anything, you completely disregard Kyle's come-to-Jesus moment, which Masai ACTUALLY was responsible for when he challenged Kyle to be a leader and whether he wanted "to be a $2M player, or a $10M+ player.

Please, take your fiction to another forum. Most people here are actual fans and know better.

Kyle’s come to Jesus moment with Masai was after the 2015 seasons. If you want diminish the role
Kyle played in all of these situations go ahead.

And yes, I’m not an actual fan because I give Kyle
Credit for a lot of these things. Makes sense

[Badonkadonk]

Which of the facts I mentioned are trolling? Research all the known details on those transactions. Ibaka was the first trade ever that Lowry demanded the team make. And fact FVV didn’t get cut because of Kyle.

All of them?

The part about Lowry demanding the Ibaka trade is made up.
The part about FVV getting cut unless Kyle stepped in is made up.
The part about Kyle pushing for Gasol is made up.

If anything, you completely disregard Kyle's come-to-Jesus moment, which Masai ACTUALLY was responsible for when he challenged Kyle to be a leader and whether he wanted "to be a $2M player, or a $10M+ player.

Please, take your fiction to another forum. Most people here are actual fans and know better.

Kyle’s come to Jesus moment with Masai was after the 2015 seasons. If you want diminish the role
Kyle played in all of these situations go ahead.

I'm a huge fan of the GROAT, but making stuff up to score internet points is dumb.

There is zero evidence for any of that stuff, and unless you're Lebron, players don't get to play GM.