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U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada

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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#41 » by casoldi » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:30 pm

TheLP wrote:
casoldi wrote:
TheLP wrote:I have checked the Canadian coaching staff multiple times this tournament to make sure Osman isn't one of the coaches son. I'm so confused why he's still being shovelled minutes and the only explanation I can come up with is his dad is someone important or significant within Canada Basketball
He's not THAT bad lol

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8% shooting averaging 20mins a game is exceptional.

He's athletic and can move real well but c'mon
I know he's not playing well. I just felt like your comment was a bit harsh.

Maybe he very good during practice sessions.

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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#42 » by ruckus » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:45 pm

Hair Canada wrote:
ruckus wrote:
Hair Canada wrote:.


I appreciate all the insight you bring to this board on the up and coming Canadian talent.

Any thoughts on the women's u16 team? They're playing US for the gold tonight.


Ye, I usually keep my thoughts on the women's competitions to myself cause I'm not sure anyone is actually interested. But I've watched the games and the team looked good. In particular, I like two of the youngster and think they have interesting potential:

The first is Cassandre Prosper, sister of O-Max. Great size for a wing (6'2) with length, great athleticism, and nice skill. The shooting is still a work in progress, though she has decent touch I think. But she can already do real damage in the paint and in the open court and I also liked that she's a good and willing passer. Definitely a WNBA prospect.

Also liked what I've seen from combo guard Delaney Gibb. Also has good size for the position (5'11) and a good athletic profile, which make her an excellent rebounder. A very good shooter who can also create for both herself and others. Both her and Prosper are also engaged and smart defenders, which is nice to see (about 6 steals and 2.5 blocks a game between the two of them). Gibb should be an excellent college prospect and can also make it to the WNBA if she keeps progressing (still has too many mental lapses and TOs).

I think these two look more impressive and promising than what Aalyiah Edwards (now at Uconn) and Merissah Russell looked four years ago in the same competition (though both were younger at the time). And definitely more impressive than anyone we had in 2019, which was a bit of a down year for the girls' side I thought.

Beyond these two, I've seen nice flashes from power forward Marina Radocaj (sister of victor I imagine) and center Jada Bediako (6'4; sister of the bediako brothers). But I don't think they have the size (Radocaj) or skill and fluidity (Bediako) to make it to the WNBA. I'm actually more intrigued by what I've seen from SF Kiera Pemberton, who has good size, athleticism, and good defensive instincts. But for some reason, she gets less than 10 minutes a game (the least in the team).


They got rocked by the US teams full court press and trapping. I couldn't really discern any individual performances from this game cause US took Canada completely out of rhythm with their defense. I was thoroughly impressed though with the US team's execution of the gameplan.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#43 » by Hair Canada » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:13 pm

SUMMARY OF THE TOURNAMENT

Okay, Team Canada finishes strong with a nice performance against the DR and a bronze.

Now it’s time to summarize. I may have overreacted to the first loss to Argentina. Yes, I still think this L was avoidable but Argentina turned out to be a really decent team, and Team Canada actually steadily improved in subsequent games (with the best game in my mind against the US) and was able to finish the competition with a couple of fairly strong performances.

With this age group, though, more important than the achievements is noting future potential and developmental projects (I do believe it is important though to get to the U17 WC, if only for another opportunity at acquiring international experience for the young lads). And here I think there are actually a couple of interesting long-term prospects and at least one with good NBA potential.


THE PLAYMAKERS

I’ll start with the playmakers before moving to the shooters (not much in terms of wings this year) and bigs.

Mikkel Tyne. Our best player in this tournament. An excellent PG with fantastic handle, great pull-up shooting (shot 42% from 3 in this tournament on high volume, many of them contested pull-ups), vision, passing, and great control of the pace. Also quite strong and really quick, able to change pace, blow into the rim, or stop on a dime for a jump shot. On the defensive end, he’s a pest – a really committed on-ball defender who’s tough to get around with his mix of foot speed, strong body, and bulldog mentality. I really wish he had a couple more inches (I don’t think a late growth spurt is likely), which would make him a clear NBA prospect. At his current height, it’s going to be an uphill battle. But he should develop into a nice high major PG and from there who knows.



Though he was very good throughout the tournament, a couple of the problems that I mentioned in the preview were also evident in this setting. Most notably, the TOs (more than 4 a game), most of which come from just trying to do too much but also I think from the physical limitations and occasional lack of focus. I’d like him to figure out the balance better between creating for himself and for others. He’s a good passer but too often he gets over-aggressive looking for his own shot. Will have to really work on that because, as I said before, his margin of error is quite thin due to the size limitations.

Whatever his ceiling is though, he’s a guy show is fun to watch and cheer for. The great handle, the elegant shooting, the speed, and the defensive commitment made him an asset to this team and I believe will make him an asset to other teams in the future.


Efeosa Oliogu. Before the tournament started, I thought he might be the breakout Canadian prospect this year and show that he has the highest ceiling. But he was even better than I expected and really does clearly have the highest ceiling on this team. Fantastic athlete, already with a strong physique that’s only going to get better and an impressive handle for his age (15) and height (6’6). But I was perhaps most impressed with and encouraged by the vision, passing skills, and willingness to share the ball. I’d really like to see him play as a full-time PG in high school over the next couple of years. I think he has the ability to lead a team if he’s given the keys and as a tall PG he’d really be a unique player. Also, I love his attack mentality and will to dominate opponents. Not shy and wants the ball in his hands. If he’s not yet done growing, he could be a scary prospect.

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Naturally, Oliogu is far from the finished product. Still makes some silly mistakes, fumbles the ball too much, and doesn’t always make the right decision. But most worrying for me right now is the shot. It just doesn’t look right with whatever it is he’s doing with his legs and the very low release. The encouraging thing is that I think it’s very correctable. He shot over 90% from the line here (small sample but still) and he doesn’t look like he lacks touch. Just need to completely redo the form and hopefully, this can happen before he gets to college. Definitely one of the players who will be most interesting to track in next year’s WC, with another year of physical and game development.


Baraka Okojie. Baraka Had a good showing as our second ball handler. A good athlete, quick, tough, and quite crafty. Showed a high activity level on both ends of the floor. Actually led the team in assists (5.5 per game) but didn’t shoot the ball well, especially from range. That’s going to be his swing skill. If he can get the % up, he’s going to be a very nice PG at the college level, as he has decent size, a good motor, handle, vision and passing skills, and impressive defensive potential.


Taj Au-Duke. I wondered about the necessity of even having him here before the competition. I do I get it now, as Au-Duke is a more natural ball-handler than Sharma or Osman (though I’d prefer the ball in Theodosiou’s or Oliogu’s hands over him). So he was brought as a third PG to give the others some rest time. Got a lot of minutes (too many) in the first few games but really didn’t show he deserved them. It’s one thing that he didn’t shoot well (27% from the field). But I really disliked his tendency to charge into walls instead of looking for the pass, especially when playing with good shooters. He has a decent handle but right now that doesn’t make him a real PG and given the very mediocre physical profile and upside I’d probably like to see someone else get a chance next year.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#44 » by TheFutureMM » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:40 pm

Hair Canada wrote:SUMMARY OF THE TOURNAMENT

Okay, Team Canada finishes strong with a nice performance against the DR and a bronze.

Now it’s time to summarize. I may have overreacted to the first loss to Argentina. Yes, I still think this L was avoidable but Argentina turned out to be a really decent team, and Team Canada actually steadily improved in subsequent games (with the best game in my mind against the US) and was able to finish the competition with a couple of fairly strong performances.

With this age group, though, more important than the achievements is noting future potential and developmental projects (I do believe it is important though to get to the U17 WC, if only for another opportunity at acquiring international experience for the young lads). And here I think there are actually a couple of interesting long-term prospects and at least one with good NBA potential.


THE PLAYMAKERS

I’ll start with the playmakers before moving to the shooters (not much in terms of wings this year) and bigs.

Mikkel Tyne. Our best player in this tournament. An excellent PG with fantastic handle, great pull-up shooting (shot 42% from 3 in this tournament on high volume, many of them contested pull-ups), vision, passing, and great control of the pace. Also quite strong and really quick, able to change pace, blow into the rim, or stop on a dime for a jump shot. On the defensive end, he’s a pest – a really committed on-ball defender who’s tough to get around with his mix of foot speed, strong body, and bulldog mentality. I really wish he had a couple more inches (I don’t think a late growth spurt is likely), which would make him a clear NBA prospect. At his current height, it’s going to be an uphill battle. But he should develop into a nice high major PG and from there who knows.


I don't typically watch the U16s due to the fact that the Basketball is very sloppy and the players are often very much in the process of figuring out the game however I watched parts of the US game and most of the DR game and Tyne definitely stood out to me. He looked the most poised out of all of the Canadian's and I often was relieved whenever he got the ball. Good handle and a decent passer. I too hope he gets a little bit bigger (even 6'0 would be nice) as he is great at getting to the rim but I saw him get blocked a number of times by both the US and DR.

Excited to see your write-up on the Bigs from this tournament (in particular Rioux) - they seem like the biggest wild cards in terms of their projected future. Nobody stood out to me in a noteworthy way.

Last thing, anyone else bummed that no one was updating the Wiki page for this tourney (not sure if FIBA was doing this in the past or a good samaritan)? I typically use it to keep up with the tournaments as opposed to going to the FIBA site. Oh well, hoping this was just a one-off and in the future they will continue to upkeep them as they are good record to look back on every now and then.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#45 » by Hair Canada » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:27 am

THE SHOOTERS

Jacob Theodosiou. I think it’s not a secret that I love Theodosiou’s game and believe in him, certainly more than the Canadian coaches. But objectively, I think was our third-best player in this tournament and there’s an argument our there that he even had the best performance all considered. Finished third in scoring (together with Sharma) although he played only 16 minutes a game (9th on the team)… Also led the entire tournament in 3-point shooting percentage, with a fantastic 52% on good volume. Just a great shooter (also about 90% from the line).

So when I said the coaching staff did not have a very good tournament, Theodosiou is the one that jumps to mind most and I’ve said it after just about every one of the games. For me, it’s not just that he played so few minutes. It’s also that time and time again he was taken out right when he started to get warmer. And perhaps most importantly, that both him and Sharma are great shooters but it seemed like the team just didn’t work to get them their shots. It was particularly obvious in the first two or three games and improved a bit consequently, but this team, for better or worse, played AAU basketball, not FIBA basketball. The ball didn’t move enough and the team didn’t work for its shooters, which meant under-utilizing one of our biggest advantages with three players in the top-4 3-point % in this competition (Jacob, Sharma, and Tyne), all shooting better than 40%.

As for the rest of Jacob’s game, there’s still significant work to do there. He’s not the fastest or most athletic player (though he’s not a bad athlete). So he did have some difficulties against quick, aggressive, and athletic opponents on both ends. Defensively, he mostly managed to contain them with good anticipation and commitment (a couple of excellent steals). He was generally good on that end, though he did have to sometimes commit fouls to stop guys from blowing by him.

Where I’m a bit more concerned after this tournament is with the creation on offense. Right now, he’s not strong or quick enough to turn the corner against good defenders, which limits his ability to create for himself and for others. And the handle, while good, is not crisp enough to compensate for that. He also doesn’t have quite enough pop to finish well in the paint against athletic defenders. So he’ll need to continue to improve quite a bit to really become a combo guard. If he can still add a couple of inches (looks like he’s already about 6’4) then he could just be a full-time shooting guard at the next level. But I think to get to the highest levels he’ll need to improve both the athleticism and the handle (especially the latter, as you can only do so much with the former).

Ishan Sharma. A really pleasant surprise and also one of our better players in this tournament. I knew before the tournament that he was a sharpshooter, and he provided exactly that, showing a smooth shooting motion with good precision from 3 and on long twos (which seems to be his favorite range). For me, he’s less versatile than Theodosiou and therefore has a more defined ceiling. And like Jacob, he certainly has some physical limitations (not the strongest or the best athlete). But with the premium on shooting in today’s game, he’s a useful player who can develop into a nice shooting specialist at the college level and potentially play pro basketball overseas after that.

AJ Osman. Unlike the two above, he’s a shooting guard but one who can’t really shoot right now. A very disappointing tournament for Osman. He showed in the last game against the DR that he does have some offensive potential, with a couple of smooth penetrations and he even hit a couple of threes. But overall, he was mostly really bad and hurt the team with terrible shooting (3 points a game in almost 20 minutes of play, on less than 20% and more TOs than assists, many of them in critical moments). Has good physical tools and plays hard, but like in former settings that I’ve watched him, right now it doesn’t translate into good playing. He might figure things out in the next couple of years because the tools are there. If he does, he’s a mid-major college prospect with maybe even a high-major ceiling. But for now, it’s quite far from there. The only reason he might still be there next year is that he’s a good and engaged defender with good instincts and enough speed and athleticism (really good at drawing offensive charges). Perhaps he also makes a jump on offense by next year. But I hope we can do better.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#46 » by mojo13 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:01 am

Anything with this kid? or all hype?

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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#47 » by Hair Canada » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:34 am

mojo13 wrote:Anything with this kid? or all hype?

Read on Twitter
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Never watched him play before. And I'm usually cautious with edited tape. But this combination of size, skill, and mobility looks quite special. Maybe we'll get to see him in next year's U17 WC.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#48 » by TheFutureMM » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:45 am

Hair Canada wrote:
mojo13 wrote:Anything with this kid? or all hype?

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Never watched him play before. And I'm usually cautious with edited tape. But this combination of size, skill, and mobility looks quite special. Maybe we'll get to see him in next year's U17 WC.




Couldn't find much on him but I did find this. Couple interesting things:

1) He must be good if he's picking up D1 offers already.
2) They note him as a SG lol.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#49 » by mtr15 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:51 pm

DJ Burke (from Ajax, ON and is in the class of 2024) is another interesting prospect that could have been in the conversation for the Canadian U16 team. He has grown quite a bit in the last year and is now 6'4 (I don't think he's stopped growing). He was 6'0 at this time last year. He was the MVP for his age group at the Jane and Finch Classic earlier this month and plays summer AAU for Northern Kings and year round with DC (Durham City) United.

Burke can play 1 to 3. Has terrific vision and is a great rebounder. Tough, gritty and plays to exhaustion. Can make 3s and is a leader on the floor. And he's a fantastic defender.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#50 » by Hair Canada » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:52 pm

I'll end this summary (and thread) with the bigs.

THE BIGS

Char Yeiy. I’ll start with the guy who I think is the most interesting long-term prospect among our bigs. Very young (born in 2006) and his game is extremely raw. He rushed plays, often made bad decisions, had mental lapses on defense, and missed some easy lay-ups. But you can really see the potential with his combination of strength, excellent frame, and tremendous length. On defense, he can really lock in for stretches (though too often he lost his man or mistimed his jump). On offense, he also showed flashes with a couple of nice finishes around the rim. I also like that he plays with confidence and is not shy about trying things, even if right now it often doesn’t end up very well. Yeiy has decent touch and I think once his game settles in and develops more he has nice potential on this end of the floor as well. Also think he’ll eventually be able to shoot it some (not right now), once he gets more confident and works on his form.

I might be wrong about it, but I see a ceiling there where he grows some more and develops into a modern big, who doesn’t just play under the basket but can also create a bit from the perimeter. That would require plenty of development, but I really do think he has perhaps the highest ceiling on this team besides Oliogu, with NBA potential if everything breaks right. One of the guys I’d be most curious to see next year, to follow up on his development.


Olivier Rioux. I came with quite low expectations from Rioux before the tournament started based on everything I’ve seen before. Even with that, during the group stage, he somehow managed to underperform even these low expectations. But then in the last few games, especially the one against the US, something clicked and he was able to show that there might actually be a future player hiding there. Not an NBA player by any means and there’s a ton of work to even get to the level of playing professional basketball and getting paid. But it might not be a lost cause.

FIBA basketball at this level is actually a setting that fits Rioux quite well. Especially on defense, you can shield him from the P&R by playing zone without getting punished too much. And then he sometimes becomes a useful presence in the paint against bigs who are used to having their way but can be overwhelmed by the sheer size (even the very talented US bigs had some difficulties there, though they eventually figured it out). Offensively, it can be frustrating watching someone this big not impose himself. But he also got better on that end as the tournament went on. Seemed to settle in more and was able to start making the shots near the basket after a really rough start. Was nice that he had his best game against the strongest competition in the US.

But it’s going to be an uphill battle. Mainly because of how slow his reaction time is (even more than the slow feet and very limited athleticism). I noted earlier that he often plays much smaller than his size because on top of not jumping he has a tendency not to stretch his hands out. Upon more viewings, I think this is not just a bad habit (though it's also that). It’s also a function of his incredibly slow processing time. By the time the hands are fully stretched, the play has already passed. So he learned to not even try to go all the way up and instead tries to influence the game with a half movement. And I think the extremely slow processing time is also responsible for other obvious problems, including what looks like bad hands and an apparent lack of interest and passion, which many have commented on with Rioux. It’s not that he can’t catch the ball when he’s ready for it. It’s that by the time it gets to him, he hasn’t yet figured out that it’s coming (you could see that a couple of times with balls that just went over his head with him seemingly not even trying to catch it). And it’s not that he’s not interested in grabbing those rebounds, he just doesn’t have the reaction time to get to them. I’m not sure to what extent this can be improved. The closest thing I’ve seen to this at these ages was Jaden Bediako, who at a similar age was also a physical aberration (though not as much as Rioux) but incredibly slow and uncoordinated. Bediako certainly got better and quicker with the years but it remains a big limitation for his game. We’ll see how much Rioux can improve here because that’s the one thing that’s holding him back the most.

Another area where Rioux can certainly improve in the next few years, which could also make a difference, is his strength. As I’ve noted before, his lower body is already not that weak and he’s not easily pushed over like some other very tall guys this age. It helps that his hips are not very tall, so similar to Edey (and unlike someone like Bol Bol) his center of gravity is relatively low. But his upper body needs a lot of work, as beyond the slowness it’s the main reason he’s having a hard time finishing with authority in the paint, which leads to too many point-blank misses, as he also doesn’t have the best touch around the rim.

Like it or not, when someone is this tall (7’6 and maybe still growing), he’ll inevitably draw a lot of interest (hence why I’m also writing a lot about him). I hope Rioux stays healthy and finds a way to one day make some money from basketball. For some, he’ll always be a disappointment, but very few people who are this tall height also have real basketball talent (I can only think of Yao Ming and maybe a bit Manute Bol), so I think the expectations are just not fair.


Stephen Osei. Was out starting PF and overall performed pretty well. I wrote about the good physical tools before the tournament – long, athletic, with Good mobility, and some defensive presence. But I also mentioned how raw he is on the offense. Well, he was but actually looked a bit better there than I expected. Still had some mind-boggling misses under the rim but actually showed some range with a couple of surprising 3-pointers and I wonder if he can build on that. Still, a long way to go to become a useful college player but the tools are there and, as I said, he started playing rather late and I’ve already seen nice progress since the last time I’ve watched him. Seems like a nice potential for a mid-major college and maybe even more if he can continue to build his offensive game.


Stefan Jimenez-Vojnic. Didn’t know too much about him before the competition. But except for one game (I think against Mexico), he didn’t provide any reasons to think that he’s a very interesting prospect to follow. A decent athlete, but not great, mediocre in the paint on both ends, and didn’t show any signs of a shooting touch (didn’t take any 3s and missed all his FTs). All in all, it certainly seems like we can bring someone who might be able to contribute better next year.


Jaeden Brooks. Not exactly a big, but I’ll put him here. To be honest, he really didn’t seem to belong in this level of play. Did not contribute much at either end of the court. A mediocre athlete, not very skilled, unpolished, and not a good shooter. To be fair, he didn’t play much, but I think that was completely justified. Should be replaced by a better wing next year.



Before ending, A couple of words about next year’s U17 WC.

First, it’s nice that we got there. For moments, I was a bit worried about it, but the team took care of business very well in the deciding game against PR. Always good to have another opportunity to watch these kids and for them to get more FIBA experience and a chance to play for Team Canada and build up some relationships and commitments that could last for many years.

I also think that if things break right, we’ll be able to put up an even more competitive team in a year’s time. I noted above a couple of players who may not (should not) be there next time around unless they make a significant jump. And in my preview, I also mentioned a couple of players from the classes of 2004 and 2005 who could potentially take their place. To these (scroll up if you want to look them up), we might add names like recent breakout big man (6’10) Christian Nitu (AKA the “Maple Holmgren”), who was part of the training camp but didn’t end up on the team despite some saying that he was their best prospect; or strong and athletic guard DJ Burke (6’4), who also seems to be breaking out this summer. And others might also pop up by then to add to the pretty good base we already had this year. Should be a fun ride.
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#51 » by TheLP » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:34 am

There's a longer video on Youtube:


Or if you want the full games they're on this YouTube Channel:




Would love to see him at the U17s, he actually looks like a really really interesting prospect that nobody knows about yet
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Re: U16 FIBA Americas: Team Canada 

Post#52 » by Hair Canada » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:53 pm

Ye, a very cool prospect. Toronto City Elite is a real breeding ground for talents. Mikkel Tyne played with them for a couple of years. And besides Nitu, I also quite like Jordan Dickson, a bouncy and shifty guard who recently shot up in height. All three are from the class of 2024.
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