What's Chris Boucher's Role With Siakim's Return?

[Wannabe MEP]

Los Soles will have no narrative to push when Boucher is off the team

Are you sure? It was Danny Green in 2018-19.

[VanWest82]

I get what you're saying but Fred is the wrong example. When he isn't being so taxed on offense he's like 5'11 MJ out there with the doubles and getting his hands on the ball. Fred is a high IQ defender. His and Boucher's defensive contributions aren't even close.

538 ON/OFF RAPTOR Defense:

Boucher +10.0
FVV +4.0

Yeah, you're right. Not close.

One guy is being asked to carry the team's offensive play making and the other is asked to be a spot up shooter. But even still, Fred has been more impactful on that end which is illustrated by his off court DRTG of 107.5 which is by far the highest on the team. Boucher is a bench player who's gone against other benches and then been benched for messing up defensively. He's done really well so far on contested 3s @ 26% DFG% which are notoriously based on luck though he did block a bunch of them last year.

Boucher needs to be money from distance in order to justify a spot in the rotation. We have too many talented forwards to just pencil him in.

[Indeed]

Chris is better at being an undersized 5, he seems lost at the 4. No Kyle to run the 1-5 pick and roll with, less instances of him having a speed advantage to utilize while crashing the offensive glass. All he seems to be doing is standing at the three point line, but when he gets a chance to stretch the floor, he finds himself often contested by big 3's or mobile 4's, when last season he was often pulling 5 men out to the 3 point line and getting off clean looks when they sagged.

I more or less agree with this concern with his offense at the four. Here's how I think about it:

Boucher at the 5: offense great, defense mediocre.
Boucher at the 4: defense great, offense mediocre.

^ I think it's possible for Boucher to be a unique, valuable contributor going either way. As evidenced by...

Boucher at the five last year:
____-____-OG-Siakam-Boucher +11.6 (OffRtg 117.8, DefRtg 106.2)

Boucher at the four this year:
____-____-____-Boucher-Birch +18.1 (OffRtg 109.2, DefRtg 91.0)

If he's at the 4 alongside Birch, the defense is going to be good: you have to emphasize shooting and play-making at the 1-3. If he's at the 5, you have to put decent size/defense at the 3 and 4. If you do either of those things, Boucher has proven that he can be a solid contributor for $7 million.

One thing you want to account for is our playmaker role.

I think he is mediocre on offense regardless of 4 or 5, due to us lacking a playmaker who will pass to shooter. Perhaps VanVleet did a few on the appropriate time (instead of looking for his shot), and Dragic did a few before Banton really out played everyone, particularly in controlling the pace.

Perhaps you can confirm the assist rate stats on passing to Birch or anyone shooters, as I could be wrong.

[tecumseh18]

Chris is better at being an undersized 5, he seems lost at the 4. No Kyle to run the 1-5 pick and roll with, less instances of him having a speed advantage to utilize while crashing the offensive glass. All he seems to be doing is standing at the three point line, but when he gets a chance to stretch the floor, he finds himself often contested by big 3's or mobile 4's, when last season he was often pulling 5 men out to the 3 point line and getting off clean looks when they sagged. Guy just doesn't know where his game is coming from this year.

He's looking like 3rd string undersized center unless Precious becomes unplayable.

Boucher actually looks stronger this year. His shoulders are not so, uh, odd looking any more. So maybe backup C could be his role.

He had a finger problem in training camp that has clearly affected his outside shot. Boucher actually used to be good, remember? The organization may be willing to ride it out until he heals, if only to up his trade value. But with Siakam back and Yuta on the mend, soon there won't be any minutes to be had.

[pingpongrac]

I get what you're saying but Fred is the wrong example. When he isn't being so taxed on offense he's like 5'11 MJ out there with the doubles and getting his hands on the ball. Fred is a high IQ defender. His and Boucher's defensive contributions aren't even close.

538 ON/OFF RAPTOR Defense:

Boucher +10.0
FVV +4.0

Yeah, you're right. Not close.

I don't know what those numbers are/how to find them, but the on/off stats I can find are much closer. The team's defence is 5.2 points/100 possessions worse when FVV is off the floor while it is 6.8 points/100 possessions worse when Boucher is on the floor according to Cleaning the Glass.

Nba.com has similar results. In the 9.4 minutes that FVV is off the floor, the opposition shoots a higher percentage from the field (48% compared to 44%) and long range (40% compared to 33%). In the 34.2 minutes Boucher is off the floor, the opposition shoots a higher percentage from the field (46% compared to 41%) and long range (35% compared to 33%).

Also, FVV has played almost 3x as many minutes than Boucher. FVV plays most of his minutes against the opposition's best players while Boucher plays almost all of his minutes against the opposition's bench too. Boucher might have the slightly better on/off defensive numbers, but FVV has had a more consistent positive impact for the team.

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[theocratic_n'_nature]

I mean, IF:
Svi and Yuta consistently show out like they did in pre-season
OG, Barnes, and Siakam are effective as a starting front court with Khem coming off the bench
and if we're not using Boucher

might as well try to trade him to Orlando for an expiring Robin Lopez as a 3rd Center/situational-specialist big for the scant times that Embiid, Jokic, etc start to get hot in the paint. Hopefully also try to extract at least a future 2nd from them in the process.

[TorontoBaller]

Chris Boucher was a pleasant surprise in an otherwise dismal 2020-21 season.

That said, Boucher has been disappointing this season and his shot is a mess. Nurse has publicly spoken about Chris' underwhelming performance so far. Will Lou made some observations about Chris after the Cleveland loss which I think are spot on. He called him a train wreck, which is harsh but accurate.

I liked last year's version of Boucher a lot, but with Siakim back and Watanabe returning soon, where does Boucher fit? Is he a potential trade piece?

Siakam's return will push Chris Boucher out of the rotation entirely. Boucher has been a train wreck all season, making rookie mistakes on defence that even the Raptors' rookies wouldn't do, while also being a non-factor offensively.

Nurse benched Boucher after a disastrous first shift that saw Boucher get outmuscled in the post for an and-one, fail to rotate over at the rim for a layup, brick an open three, fumble a pass out of bounds, while also leaving his feet on a pair of pump fakes that allowed the Cavaliers to score.

Last season, Boucher was a productive player at a position of weakness, who made many of the same mistakes but hit just enough sidespin threes to make it work. Now he's hitting under 20 percent from three, and all that's left are the same unforced errors that would make even the most patient of coaches go bald.

The offence will come around eventually, but he will always be limited by his inability to read the game. Rookies like Barnes and Dalano Banton have more discipline a month into their careers than Boucher who is now in his fourth season with the Raptors.

We’ll said.
Or “good question”, I guess I should say.

It’s like he always wants to start with the 3 rather than build his on-court confidence with defence and scoring at the rim.

I worry his lack of play confuses his identity.
Like you said, he was a bring spot last year…

[Rapsalot]

Waiting for other injuries or back to back longer bench or some C mins vs smaller teams.
Interesting to see Yuta how he plays on his return if it is better than CB at forward we should move CB at trade deadline. I know he is Canadian but this is a business to build and win.

[Wannabe MEP]

Boucher at the 4: defense great, offense mediocre.

Boucher at the four this year:
____-____-____-Boucher-Birch +18.1 (OffRtg 109.2, DefRtg 91.0)

If he's at the 4 alongside Birch, the defense is going to be good: you have to emphasize shooting and play-making at the 1-3.

One thing you want to account for is our playmaker role.

I think he is mediocre on offense regardless of 4 or 5, due to us lacking a playmaker who will pass to shooter. Perhaps VanVleet did a few on the appropriate time (instead of looking for his shot), and Dragic did a few before Banton really out played everyone, particularly in controlling the pace.

Perhaps you can confirm the assist rate stats on passing to Birch or anyone shooters, as I could be wrong.

I'm not going to dig into assist rates, but interesting to look at some different combos with playmakers.

FVV-____-____-Boucher-Birch +37.2 (OffRtg 119.7, DefRtg 82.5, 60 minutes)

So that's excellent, but you obviously can't play FVV 48 minutes. But then this is really effective too:

Banton-____-____-Boucher-Birch +21.0 (OffRtg 113.8, DefRtg 92.9, 61 minutes)

^ I think that trio is a really solid foundation for the 2nd unit. Based on the numbers so far, it looks like basically a guarantee on defense with all that mobile length. And then it's a matter of mixing in enough offense at the 2 and 3. I think the return of Siakam adds offensive talent to the starting unit, which I envision allowing for some spillover minutes of guys with more offense to the 2nd unit -- any of FVV, Trent, Barnes, and OG could pick up important minutes alongside Banton, Boucher, and Birch.

[ItsDanger]

Currently 2nd on the team in FGA per minute. Bench him. His chucking ways need to stop. Trade him if possible.

[Kingsway_fan]

Currently 2nd on the team in FGA per minute. Bench him. His chucking ways need to stop. Trade him if possible.

He used to get a lot of dunks... now just chucking and shooting a bad percentage... he is way off last year...

[sidsid]

He's been real bad this season. And if he's still getting 6-8 minutes a game, give him the start of game/3rd quarter minutes and sit him in the corner to space for the big lineup now that Siakam's back.

[johanliebert]

Currently 2nd on the team in FGA per minute. Bench him. His chucking ways need to stop. Trade him if possible.

Why weren’t you guys complaining about his chucking last year?

His quick trigger isn’t new Leo would always mention it in jest.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Read on Twitter

Always hated Boucher.... he does have a freaky nba body but to me he low IQ and does a lot of dumb stuff like bite for pump fakes etc

[Potential]

We gotta put him on the market and see what we can get

[OptimalOptimist]

Trade him to Chicago for Colby White

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[visionquest]

Hes streaky. He will win us some games in time.

[Wannabe MEP]

Top 2-man groups by net rating, minimum 50 minutes:

[djsunyc]

[Boogie!]

boucher has not been getting good looks this year... his catch and shoot game improved last season, but our offense is dismal and hes not being put in situations to succeed... im seeing him trying to create off the dribble, why is he in that position to begin with? also hes not being used in pick and pop or pick and roll scenarios enough this season like he was last season, and again thats a byproduct of our dismal offensive system.