Has it not become overwhelmingly clear (even to management) it's time to blow this up?

[OakleyDokely]

A casual observer from business standpoint would look at the Raptors and conclude management needs to be removed, why isn't action being taken in this situation. If you're honest that is.

lol

[BramptonYute]

Well if players arent happy and want to leave, management wont have a choice

[agkagk]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

[PhilBlackson]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

A top ten record is not the goal lol...it's being an actual contender.

[agkagk]

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

A top ten record is not the goal lol...it's being an actual contender.

a top ten team is usually at worst, one piece away from contention if not an actual contender.

[WaltFrazier]

Will MLSE allow a full rebuild? When they gave Masai that huge contract I think they had winning in mind.

Personally I would rather just tank this season and get a stud player in the draft. Don’t want to sit through 5 years of being crap.

I even still want to try to add at deadline. But the point about MLSE is key. Are they really willing to sit through years of losing? Would attendance fall, jersey sales? Since MLSE is tied to both TV networks, how would falling ratings affect the business model?

I liken it to the Blue Jays. Attendance and fan support was building through the 80s, the Barfield Bell teams, then peaked with the 2 WS titles. Then attendance and interest tanked, and of course the work stoppage and cancelled World Series didn't help. But the Blue Jays fan interest unlike other teams didn't bounce back for a long time. Not till 2015. Having tasted a championship and playoff excitement even last year, does MLSE have the stomach for 4-5 years of irrelevance and fan apathy?

[God Squad]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

wait what? lol.

[Ell Curry]

The Raps overachieved last year and won 48 games, finishing 5th in the conference. The idea that the Raps should've blown it up in the offseason after overachieving is a pretty ridiculous notion.

We needed to stick or twist. Tanking doesn't make sense with a team of guys in their 20s after winning 48, but trading a future 1st and Boucher in a sign and trade for a decent starting center and getting say Malik Monk for the MLE and we probably win 48 again.

[agkagk]

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

wait what? lol.

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

[TorontoBarneys]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

Your take is that we are a couple supporting pieces (that should be easy gets by your admission) away from being "a top 10 team". Evidently, now also not this season as well... and we should acquire these pieces... at some unforeseen time.

Bro, you make no sense. Stop doubling down.

[islandboy53]

I think it has, personally. The Grange article was the writing on the wall. To sneak into the playoffs and avoid the play-in, we'd have to be basically contender-lite until the end of the season. It's not happening.

I think Masai is already preparing.

Agreed. As currently structured, this team seems unlikely to do better than a play-in spot. But, while it's time to move on from some players, there is no need to blow it up, nor do I think management is prepared to take that big a step backwards to move forwards. Siakam plus Barnes, OG and Achiuwa seems a reasonable group to reload around while quickly getting back to a competitive level, much like 2 years ago. Trent and Van Vleet seem like the logical choices to be moved for whatever picks and prospects they can bring back.

[PhilBlackson]

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

A top ten record is not the goal lol...it's being an actual contender.

a top ten team is usually at worst, one piece away from contention if not an actual contender.

Your answer has no basis in reality...

1. If you're committing to this core then the team is COMPLETELY tapped out financially within 2 years
2. In order to get these backup pieces you want you'll need to use some of your draft compensation so you shoot yourself in the foot for this "one piece away" after you're referring to lol
3. That "one piece away" aka another star player will not come cheap, you'd have to trade at least two of your core players PLUS mortgage your team's draft capital BUT in your hypothetical you just spent at least 2 picks to get backups (smh), so you likely don't even have the kind of draft compensation a rebuilding team will want after trading their star away

...and if you believe this team is just a couple backups away from contention without another star, then there is no level of reasoning with that kind of homerism.

[mademan]

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

wait what? lol.

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

Over 265 min, that unit is a +1.9 Net Rating. That is awful for the core of a team

The actual problem is the core doesnt fit together. This is the modern NBA where both our guards are 3+D guys, which only works if you have a Luka or a Lebron. We have no guard play, that core cant guard the paint and its one of the worst shooting lineups in the league. Those 5 guys together are absolutely the problem and have shown nothing that indicates that we should invest in them (trade assets/picks to surround them with better bench guys)

[ciueli]

Big deals tend to happen in the offseason when more teams have cap flexibility, there's less restrictions on draft picks and more players are eligible for trade.

If you're expecting a big OG or Siakam trade by the deadline, you will likely be disappointed. If they do happen, they will occur closer to the draft.

Trade deadline is usually a time when vets and rentals are dealt.

In some ways it's actually easier to trade players at the deadline because teams often have expiring contracts they can use to match salary. Wait until the offseason and those contracts are gone, it's one of the big reasons we couldn't really make a play for Kevin Durant, we would have had to gut our team just to make the cap math work.

The trade I floated on the trade thread with the Lakers (Fred + Thad + Boucher + Birch + Otto for Westbrook + pick) only works now because they have the Russell Westbrook monster expiring contract to send back.

[Quattro]

How isn't EVERYONE seeing this as an ideal BLOW IT UP situation including MANAGEMENT at this point??

- We are 11th in the East.

- Even if we start winning a bit we are clearly a treadmill team at BEST(worst position for a franchise to be in)

- FVV is clearly flawed and isn't taking us anywhere besides treadmill territory, he's 29 yrs old, declining, and a free agent you don't want to overpay.

- GTJ is a free agent and will be another new contract contributing to this treadmill core.

- Our best player is 28 yrs old, could potentially get a supermax contract which would likely cement us into a treadmill future for years.

- The ceiling for this leadership core (FVV + Siakam) is pretty much sealed - they're both about to be 29 yrs old and max our future as a treadmill team +  both need to be resigned potentially to BIG DEALS! Pivot much orr?

- We could potentially get big returns for our core players who are highly valued around the league.

- We have a promising young player ( Barnes) or two (OG) to potentially boost our rebuild with.

- This is one of the deepest draft in years with a couple potential superstars at the top.

- Unlike past yrs we are currently not far off from top 5 draft lottery odds.

- Choosing not to rebuild/blow it up and resign this core to big deals CLEAR AS DAY cements us into a treadmill team for yrs.

- There are rumors some players are currently disgruntled on the roster.

- By not trading FVV + Trent you either lose for nothing or resign them to deals we'll likely regret, lock us into being a treadmill team.

- This is a turning point moment that requires immediate ACTION (FVV+GTJ) before we lock ourselves into a non-contending future.

- Actually making Pascal Siakam available for trade at his top value EVER could potentially yield a MASSIVE return.

- There are way too many immediate contract decisions that must be made with this current core (FVV+GTJ+Siakam) - choosing to keep current core clearly locks us into a treadmill team with bad contracts.

- The Eastern conference and NBA in general has become so much more improved, this current core convincingly has no path to contending.

We could add more...

It's become overwhelmingly clear, BLOW IT THE F UP MASAI!!!!!!

Is it not if you're not dillusional?

Post needs more "treadmill".

[agkagk]

wait what? lol.

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

Over 265 min, that unit is a +1.9 Net Rating. That is awful for the core of a team

The actual problem is the core doesnt fit together. This is the modern NBA where both our guards are 3+D guys, which only works if you have a Luka or a Lebron. We have no guard play, that core cant guard the paint and its one of the worst shooting lineups in the league. Those 5 guys together are absolutely the problem and have shown nothing that indicates that we should invest in them (trade assets/picks to surround them with better bench guys)

THE TEAM NEEDS A CENTRE!

Long boys is an epic failure.

not enough play makers to compensate for the lack of spacing that a centre provides.

Our roster construction is terrible.

its really that simple.

[God Squad]

thats an absurdly short sighted interpretation of what i wrote.

the roster construction is poor, but the core is strong. the pieces around our core make the core worse not better. fix this and you have a very good team. luckily, those pieces are cheap and easy to get.

masai is **** the bed on this one.

obviously its too late to finish with a top ten record.

wait what? lol.

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

While I agree our bench is booty , A core of FVV, Pascal , OG-Scottie is super a$$ compared to other heavy hitters in the league. I actually want no part of FVV being the PG of the future, I can be swayed on Pascal/OG.

[agkagk]

wait what? lol.

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

While I agree our bench is booty , A core of FVV, Pascal , OG-Scottie is super a$$ compared to other heavy hitters in the league. I actually want no part of FVV being the PG of the future, I can be swayed on Pascal/OG.

give fred a centre to help space the floor and I think you'll fall in love with fred again.

[Clay Davis]

Listened to that Canadaland episode on Rogers. I think it's clear that MLSE is the culprit... but I don't think it's all of MLSE. I think it's Ed Rogers. I think he's sabotaging things. I don't know the details yet, but I will have the full truth. If I expire prematurely, it is no coincidence. Stay tuned...

[God Squad]

og, pascal, fred, barnes and trent arent the problem.

its the 40 plus million being spent on guys like boucher, porter, thad young, birch etc....

If this team even had two scrubby players like nerlen noel and dennis schroeder on the bench then this team is over 500.

no back up point guard, no six man, no centre to be seen (these are all cheap and supposedly easy assets to find).

our core has been left out to dry by management.

While I agree our bench is booty , A core of FVV, Pascal , OG-Scottie is super a$$ compared to other heavy hitters in the league. I actually want no part of FVV being the PG of the future, I can be swayed on Pascal/OG.

give fred a centre to help space the floor and I think you'll fall in love with fred again.

lol. Stop.