Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Barnes with lower USG kinda needs his defense to get a lot better to be worth the money he is making.

If everything breaks right in this scenario where the lower USG leads to above average efficiency and the D gets to All-NBA level, you're probably looking at a prime Ben Simmons type impact player. But, I think a lot would have to go right for that to happen and I wouldn't bet on it certainly.

Hmm the thing is that if you're taking the ball out of his hands more while his TS% could improve back to somewhere between .550-.570 it would affect his AST% greatly and that's where he stuffs the stat sheet mostly on offense.

I knew this could happen with Scottie and warned about it many times which is why I've always been on a "prove it" basis with him. Now that we're nearing the end of the failed wing Scottie experiment, can he successfully revert to forward Scottie, grow his forward skills, get that ORB% way back up and do a lot of dirty work on cuts and putbacks and start to develop what he has always been more naturally good at.

[arbsn]

Iguodala comps are pretty spot on... Solid 2 way player decent at everything great at nothing

I can never see him being Giannis/prime Lebron level at anything but can see him winning a chip he has a winning mindset

He's overpaid but everyone on the Raps is overpaid outside of the rookies, Poeltl and maybe RJ

[dballislife]

i get that compared to last season his scoring avg is lower, reb are down, dropping less dimes, getting less blocks, lowered his fg, plummeted his 3 ball, FT down, and is turning the ball over more too so.

[TorontoBarneys]

If he can improve his 3 to league average then it still opens up his game tremendously. He could get there in 3-4 years during his peak.

[Los_29]

Important lesson learned when giving someone the keys who doesn’t deserve it and doesn’t have the talent for it. Scottie isn’t even a 2nd option. Ideally he’s a 3rd-4th option who plays good defense. He will be in the right role next year.

[Rainman66]

Imo this is Scottie's best individual performance so far from 24/25 and has not had a similar performance since, he needs to get back to this level and if he does he certainly can become a legit number 1/2 option.

Watch on YouTube

[dballislife]

on the bright side ingram could be 23-25 and rj 22-23 next season

[XTC]

Barnes with lower USG kinda needs his defense to get a lot better to be worth the money he is making.

If everything breaks right in this scenario where the lower USG leads to above average efficiency and the D gets to All-NBA level, you're probably looking at a prime Ben Simmons type impact player. But, I think a lot would have to go right for that to happen and I wouldn't bet on it certainly.

Hmm the thing is that if you're taking the ball out of his hands more while his TS% could improve back to somewhere between .550-.570 it would affect his AST% greatly and that's where he stuffs the stat sheet mostly on offense.

I knew this could happen with Scottie and warned about it many times which is why I've always been on a "prove it" basis with him. Now that we're nearing the end of the failed wing Scottie experiment, can he successfully revert to forward Scottie, grow his forward skills, get that ORB% way back up and do a lot of dirty work on cuts and putbacks and start to develop what he has always been more naturally good at.

I've always said if he can be a little bit of Shawn Marion, and a little bit of Lamar Odom we got a really good player. A strong #3 on a contender.

I want him to go out there defend, rebound, be a secondary ball handler when the point guard needs relief, and score when there is a mismatch/cuts/off broken plays.

[ConSarnit]

He’s already backsliding in his midrange shooting. He’s shooting 41% from midrange over the past 35 games. This is the same thing that happened last year with his 3pt shooting: started out hot and then cratered. I honestly don’t know if we can trust any part of his scoring game. By the end of the season we’re probably going to look at his stats and the only thing that will look “decent” will be his mid-high 40’s midrange game and that’s it. His iso, postup, pnr ball handler and 3pt scoring all suck.

The “elite midrange” argument is already gone. He was shooting 56% from midrange. Now he’s below 50% and falling fast.

There is potential but it’s not looking good. He’s never been able to maintain any aspect of efficient scoring over the course of a season (or really any longer than 2-2.5 months).

[PushDaRock]

Barnes with lower USG kinda needs his defense to get a lot better to be worth the money he is making.

If everything breaks right in this scenario where the lower USG leads to above average efficiency and the D gets to All-NBA level, you're probably looking at a prime Ben Simmons type impact player. But, I think a lot would have to go right for that to happen and I wouldn't bet on it certainly.

Hmm the thing is that if you're taking the ball out of his hands more while his TS% could improve back to somewhere between .550-.570 it would affect his AST% greatly and that's where he stuffs the stat sheet mostly on offense.

I knew this could happen with Scottie and warned about it many times which is why I've always been on a "prove it" basis with him. Now that we're nearing the end of the failed wing Scottie experiment, can he successfully revert to forward Scottie, grow his forward skills, get that ORB% way back up and do a lot of dirty work on cuts and putbacks and start to develop what he has always been more naturally good at.

I would imagine his AST% actually increases instead and the ball is in and out of his hands more often by not trying to score so much. Someone like Sabonis who doesn't try to score on ISO's too often manages a really high AST% without a high usage rate. I also think Darko's offense naturally lends itself to higher AST% for our players especially if we can actually become a good offensive team. We have been top 10 in assists despite being a really bad offense the last 2 years.

I basically had my doubts on his offensive potential right after the Siakam trade and not seeing any sort willingness to take on a larger role as a scorer once Siakam left. He had the license to shoot as many shots as he wanted and wasn't doing it, his shot volume didn't change at all. It started becoming clear that he wasn't shooting more likely because he wasn't capable of doing so.

[mdenny]

This is the guy we changed the face of the franchise for. Whether TWO or team compete, everyone wanted him to be "the guy".

It was pretty clear we could have had Durant for him in 2022!

We would most likely have a starting five of FVV, OG, Pascal, Durant and Poeltl for a few years. We would have a championship by now......

Scottie was the one that didn't fit, yet we changed the team around him.

I really hope that the player we draft this year will either fit in to the current team, or be good enough to change the team for.

that rumor was pre-yak

Also....would've had to include OG.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Barnes onball%

2022: 18%
2023: 21%
2024: 20%
2025: 25%

He's 22nd percentile for positional TS% this year. In any case unless he finds realistic and sustainable ways to boost his TS% 25% is way too much.

He is having his best year as a technical defender but there's still a lot of room for growth in that regard. He's positionally elite at forcing turnovers and deflecting passes but not DFG%.

Defensive IQ and effort needs to continue to sharpen along with finding little ways here or there to improve his scoring efficiency even if it's not to a level that would make him a bonafide t16 player. Part of that can come from scaling him down again and him understanding what he's good at and embracing and exploiting it.

I think having an outlet like Ingram who can also relieve some of the offensive burden he has taken upon himself with limited success will genuinely be the litmus test. There's a realistic path for Barnes to just stop this trajectory of becoming increasingly ball-dominant and play in a way that would be conducive to winning.

[PushDaRock]

He’s already backsliding in his midrange shooting. He’s shooting 41% from midrange over the past 35 games. This is the same thing that happened last year with his 3pt shooting: started out hot and then cratered. I honestly don’t know if we can trust any part of his scoring game. By the end of the season we’re probably going to look at his stats and the only thing that will look “decent” will be his mid-high 40’s midrange game and that’s it. His iso, postup, pnr ball handler and 3pt scoring all suck.

The “elite midrange” argument is already gone. He was shooting 56% from midrange. Now he’s below 50% and falling fast.

There is potential but it’s not looking good. He’s never been able to maintain any aspect of efficient scoring over the course of a season (or really any longer than 2-2.5 months).

He's probably just always going to be a frustrating player who is talented and will give you flashes that he might finally have it figured out, give us all hope and not be able to maintain it. Basically has been the story of his career, he's on the Lamar Odom trajectory right now IMO. Someone with a lot of talent but never quite put it all together and ended up being a really good supporting player.

[canz55]

.

Even in the **** years with Chris bosh, his individual numbers were always good, even as a first option around scrub players and there was never the need to excuse him for being the only player being scouted and double teamed. Barnes has objectively regressed and this is something that needs to be considered with regards to his future with the team. Like someone else mentioned if he’s not gonna get better offensively then he better be kawhi/draymond level defensively to make up for it. But this current iteration is not deserving of max franchise status, point blank period.

I can't believe you just compared Chris Bosh to Scotty.

Chris Bosh gassed everyone up with empty stats using a disgustingly ineffective post game around the nail with his bull side-step gather-pop action which left the team exposed in the half court time and again. Bosh was the "I wanna be Tim Duncan" clone that could never touch Duncan's jockstrap.

The difference is Scotty isn't trying to be anything other than an impact two-way player. I know this because, like you, I saw Scotty perform as a rookie against Philly in the playoffs which was all I needed to know: that Scotty is a winning team-first player. Bosh on the other hand got shutdown by frigging Mikki Moore, an undrafted nobody who ate Bosh's lunch.

You say that the Barnes apologists don't have any credibility because of their bias but the only thing you've proven is that you're just another boxscore watcher.

[TakeYourHeart]

Imo this is Scottie's best individual performance so far from 24/25 and has not had a similar performance since, he needs to get back to this level and if he does he certainly can become a legit number 1/2 option.

Watch on YouTube

This is another part of the problem, his effort noticeably waxes and wanes depending on the competition. He wakes up for games against his rookie class (Pistons, Cavs), games against the past core (Pacers, Sixers), and games against the top teams. The results aren't always pretty but there's a clear difference in compete level.

[Basketball_Jones]

Derozan was the same player for 4 years with little improvements until it just kind of clicked. Not to say that Scottie will do the same, but we kind of need to wait a bit longer. Ingram is now our best player imo so at least we wont have to watch Scottie shoot air balls over the backboard to win the game anymore.

[MEDIC]

I think the goal for Scottie is to become a defensive juggernaut. Be in contention for DPOY. Also be a hub on the team & add to his offensive game over time.

I am totally fine with it.

Right now he looks bored. Playing crap teams and not even trying to win.

The thing I do appreciate about Scottie is that he elevates his intensity & performance during big games.

I am anticipating that we will see some great performances from him in the playoffs.

[Scott Hall]

Scottie is a great defender and an extremely versatile player who can guard multiple positions but his offense
is absolutely cringe and unacceptable for a soon to be max player. Last few games he was getting out played
by D-League scrubs and 10 Day contract guys on the Washington Wizards that can not happen.

We've been through this with Bosh, Bargnani, DeRozan, Siakam etc where we over value these guys because they
play for our team but the rest of the league doesn't have that bias.

Yet every time the non biased Raptor fans bring up the red flags they get attacked by the other half of the fan base
who can at times act like 6 year olds having temper tantrums. I mean how ugly were those Bargnani debates on this
board only for him to be out of the league a few years later.

And it's not really an indictment on those players they're all good players (excluding Bargnani) but it's an extreme fine
line to be a true franchise player/game changer what is it like only 1-3% of players in the league that reach that status.
Even the great Vince Carter wasn't a true franchise player you can build around as your best player.

As for Barnes this summer he desperately needs to work on his offensive bag. He needs to be working on his shot/handles
day and night before that max contract kicks in.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

This is the guy we changed the face of the franchise for. Whether TWO or team compete, everyone wanted him to be "the guy".

It was pretty clear we could have had Durant for him in 2022!

We would most likely have a starting five of FVV, OG, Pascal, Durant and Poeltl for a few years. We would have a championship by now......

Scottie was the one that didn't fit, yet we changed the team around him.

I really hope that the player we draft this year will either fit in to the current team, or be good enough to change the team for.

that rumor was pre-yak

Also....would've had to include OG.

No I do t think they would have had to include OG, the package they got was less value than Scottie. Good point about Yak, but imagine we would have got him anyways given we gave up a first rounder.

[mdenny]

that rumor was pre-yak

Also....would've had to include OG.

No I do t think they would have had to include OG, the package they got was less value than Scottie. Good point about Yak, but imagine we would have got him anyways given we gave up a first rounder.

At the very least they'd have to match salaries. So you were never getting KD for Scotty straight up. Even after adding OG at the time....you'd also have to throw in a bench piece or 2 to match salaries.

But the trade was ALWAYS Barnes plus OG. It was only wishful thinking raptor fans who weren't including OG in the trade.

Fred, Pascal and KD would be a decent team....but not a serious contender much less a probable chip team.