Pascal is one win away from finals mvp

[HangTime]

Siakam, Finals:

2019: 40.2 MIN, 19.8 PPG, 7.5 REB, 3.7 AST, 0.5 STL, 0.7 BLK, .505 FG, .238 3PT, .762 FT
2025: 32.8 MIN, 19.8 PPG, 8.3 REB, 4.0 AST, 1.7 STL, 1.3 BLK, .464 FG, .348 3PT, .825 FT

Even without the the numbers, you can tell he's playing a refined version of 2019.
The difference is, there is no Kawhi type, number one option, on the Pacers, so he gets to blend in, and become the leading scorer, while not being the number one option.

I think he could've done the same thing with Scottie leading, but having Fred as the lead ball handler was a problem.

[ForeverTFC]

If you want to criticize Masai about anything regarding the Siakam trade, criticize him for putting a horrific roster out there for years making the decision to move him all but a requirement. Zero spacing = ineffective Siakam, project 6'9 was a massive failure and effectively resulting in us having to blow up the team.

For years? It was 2 years man. And you were begging for him to be shipped out the 2nd year.

Stop it.

2020 - 2024 = 4 Regular Seasons

Seems like Math isn't one of your strengths. Leave that to others.

Aww, this guy can count. Now go learn your dates and we can work on basic logic together big boy!

[Mattatron]

For years? It was 2 years man. And you were begging for him to be shipped out the 2nd year.

Stop it.

2020 - 2024 = 4 Regular Seasons

Seems like Math isn't one of your strengths. Leave that to others.

Using your years, Pascal was traded in 2023, not 2024 and that includes a season where the team won 48 games, which would be hard to describe as a "horrific roster". I am not sure your condescension about knowing math really checks out.

January 17, 2024: Traded by the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers for Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, a 2024 1st round draft pick (Isaiah Collier was later selected), a 2024 1st round draft pick (Ja'Kobe Walter was later selected) and a 2026 1st round draft pick. Toronto also received a trade exception conditional 2024 1st-rd pick is IND own 2024 1st-rd pick is least favorable conditional 2026 1st-rd pick is IND own.


Siakam Trade was in 2024. In the 23/24 season.

That 48W season was horrific. Every player had to play 40+ minutes to actually win a game. Cheating season. Now f off.

warned, personal attack.

[Jadoogar]

Siakam, Finals:

2019: 40.2 MIN, 19.8 PPG, 7.5 REB, 3.7 AST, 0.5 STL, 0.7 BLK, .505 FG, .238 3PT, .762 FT
2025: 32.8 MIN, 19.8 PPG, 8.3 REB, 4.0 AST, 1.7 STL, 1.3 BLK, .464 FG, .348 3PT, .825 FT

honestly crazy that he's putting up the same numbers in 7 less minutes 6 years later.

[djsunyc]

When was the last time a player who actually wanted to stay with a team got traded and won a ring + FMVP the following season? Would this be the first?

it would be his 2nd season after the trade

[Randle McMurphy]

Would love to see it for a few reasons but one of them would certainly be that it would increase the likelihood that Ed makes a change in the FO. You just can’t ignore what a failure they’ve been for 5 seasons now including how they dealt with Siakam.

You are excited at the idea of Ed Rogers having more power and conviction to fire one of the most respected and sought after sports executives in the entire world?

Absolutely. Nobody should get a free pass for their entire life to mismanage an organization as badly as this one has been this decade and Ed may be the only one with the guts to end that free pass.

[kalel123]

In Masai’s defence. Let’s say if he traded Barnes and got KD from the Nets while keeping, Fred, Pascal, OG and acquiring Jakob.

I remember people at the time said he should be fired if he did that, but is the idea really that crazy. I think that team with some complementary pieces could have been a competing roster as well. But most people here clearly didn’t think so.

The truth is I think he knows and sees things clearer than fans do. Masai operates off the reality. Fans work off Hopium around draft picks and youth and what if potential.

The fact that Masai Ujiri couldn't get any trade done at the time has nothing to do with what fans wanted. It has to do with Masai Ujiri not being able to put it together or the asking price being too high for his liking. For whatever reason, he couldn't close the deal and whatever the fans wanted got nothing to do with that: that's on him. Let's not get this twisted.

Since after the championship, Masai Ujiri misfired on all cylinders for a while: free agency, trades, or drafts. That's a good chunk of the reason that core failed and we are in our current state.

[Duffman100]

Would love to see it for a few reasons but one of them would certainly be that it would increase the likelihood that Ed makes a change in the FO. You just can’t ignore what a failure they’ve been for 5 seasons now including how they dealt with Siakam.

You are excited at the idea of Ed Rogers having more power and conviction to fire one of the most respected and sought after sports executives in the entire world?

Absolutely. Nobody should get a free pass for their entire life to mismanage an organization as badly as this one has been this decade and Ed may be the only one with the guts to end that free pass.

like he's had the guts to get rid of Shatkins?

Stop trolling man.

[Randle McMurphy]

You are excited at the idea of Ed Rogers having more power and conviction to fire one of the most respected and sought after sports executives in the entire world?

Absolutely. Nobody should get a free pass for their entire life to mismanage an organization as badly as this one has been this decade and Ed may be the only one with the guts to end that free pass.

like he's had the guts to get rid of Shatkins?

Stop trolling man.

The Jays have made the playoffs 3 times this decade (and are again in playoff position right now) and aren’t paying their executives over 10M a season as the Raptors are. If we are comparing FOs this decade between the two organizations, there’s no comparison.

How does Masai possibly have this many defenders left after this level of mismanagement for this long?

[Fairview4Life]

2020 - 2024 = 4 Regular Seasons

Seems like Math isn't one of your strengths. Leave that to others.

Using your years, Pascal was traded in 2023, not 2024 and that includes a season where the team won 48 games, which would be hard to describe as a "horrific roster". I am not sure your condescension about knowing math really checks out.

January 17, 2024: Traded by the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers for Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, a 2024 1st round draft pick (Isaiah Collier was later selected), a 2024 1st round draft pick (Ja'Kobe Walter was later selected) and a 2026 1st round draft pick. Toronto also received a trade exception conditional 2024 1st-rd pick is IND own 2024 1st-rd pick is least favorable conditional 2026 1st-rd pick is IND own.


Siakam Trade was in 2024. In the 23/24 season.

That 48W season was horrific. Every player had to play 40+ minutes to actually win a game. Cheating season. Now f off.

warned, personal attack.

The 48 season was horrific? Lol. Ok bud. No player played 40mpg that year.
Fred in Wins: 37mpg, Fred in Losses: 39mpg
Pascal In Wins: 38mpg, Pascal in Losses: 38mpg
OG in Wins: 36mpg, OG in Losses: 36mpg
Scottie in Wins: 36mpg, Scottie in Losses: 36mpg
GTJ in Wins: 35mpg, GTJ in Losses: 35mpg

[Duffman100]

Absolutely. Nobody should get a free pass for their entire life to mismanage an organization as badly as this one has been this decade and Ed may be the only one with the guts to end that free pass.

like he's had the guts to get rid of Shatkins?

Stop trolling man.

The Jays have made the playoffs 3 times this decade and aren’t paying their executives over 10M a season as the Raptors are. If we are comparing FOs this decade between the two organizations, there’s no comparison.

How does Masai possibly have this many defenders left after this level of mismanagement for this long?

And the Raptors have won a title, made the 2nd round (almost ECF) and made the 1st round in the last decade and the play in (bascially WC equivalent).

The 'playoffs' that made were wild card births that we got easily eliminated from. The Jays have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB and we're still an incredibly meh team that is due to regression and fall out of the hunt. Despite your hero Varsho.

You're trolling. stop.

[Boardbreaker]

Lol at Rogers supporters. Yeah let’s praise the jays for making the “play-in” and not even winning a single game.

[Randle McMurphy]

like he's had the guts to get rid of Shatkins?

Stop trolling man.

The Jays have made the playoffs 3 times this decade and aren’t paying their executives over 10M a season as the Raptors are. If we are comparing FOs this decade between the two organizations, there’s no comparison.

How does Masai possibly have this many defenders left after this level of mismanagement for this long?

And the Raptors have won a title, made the 2nd round (almost ECF) and made the 1st round in the last decade.

The 'playoffs' that made were wild card births that we got easily eliminated from. The Jays have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB and we're still an incredibly meh team that is due to regression and fall out of the hunt. Despite your hero Varsho.

You're trolling. stop.

The Raptors have been one of the worst run directionless organizations in the sport since the end of the 2020 bubble. There’s really no debate about that. It’s so bad for them right now that Masai is currently trying to break up the treadmill core of players he built to trade for a 37 year old that will hamstring the franchise for the remainder of the decade. There is no world in which he’d be allowed to do any of this for this long if not for the free pass he’s gotten from 2019.

And who cares what the Jays’ playoff berths were? The MLB playoffs are such a complete crapshoot that anybody who gets into the dance has a shot to win it all. The Jays have done that 3 times now this decade and look like they could do it again this year. Again, there’s really no comparison at all between the two franchises from a performance perspective at this point. My reasons for ditching Shapiro and Atkins have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with process.

And trolling implies that I don’t seriously believe that Masai Ujiri has to go. I honestly don’t see how anybody could possibly stand by the guy at this point. Put his name up in the rafters but get him out of the organization already and start over before he does any further damage.

[Randle McMurphy]

Lol at Rogers supporters. Yeah let’s praise the jays for making the “play-in” and not even winning a single game.

How is it praise to say that the Jays have been the far better team than the Raptors this decade? The Raptors have been awful and the Jays at least have given themselves the chance to make a run.

[Duffman100]

The Jays have made the playoffs 3 times this decade and aren’t paying their executives over 10M a season as the Raptors are. If we are comparing FOs this decade between the two organizations, there’s no comparison.

How does Masai possibly have this many defenders left after this level of mismanagement for this long?

And the Raptors have won a title, made the 2nd round (almost ECF) and made the 1st round in the last decade.

The 'playoffs' that made were wild card births that we got easily eliminated from. The Jays have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB and we're still an incredibly meh team that is due to regression and fall out of the hunt. Despite your hero Varsho.

You're trolling. stop.

The Raptors have been one of the worst run directionless organizations in the sport since the end of the 2020 bubble. There’s really no debate about that. It’s so bad for them right now that Masai is currently trying to break up the treadmill core of players he built to trade for a 37 year old that will hamstring the franchise for the remainder of the decade. There is no world in which he’d be allowed to do any of this for this long if not for the free pass he’s gotten from 2019.

And who cares what the Jays’ playoff berths were? The MLB playoffs are such a complete crapshoot that anybody who gets into the dance has a shot to win it all. The Jays have done that 3 times now this decade and look like they could do it again this year. Again, there’s really no comparison at all between the two franchises from a performance perspective at this point. My reasons for ditching Shapiro and Atkins have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with process.

And trolling implies that I don’t seriously believe that Masai Ujiri has to go. I honestly don’t see how anybody could possibly stand by the guy at this point. Put his name up in the rafters but get him out of the organization already and start over before he does any further damage.

No it's not a total crapshoot. The jays didn't win a game all 3 times. That's not a crapshoot, that's a medicore roster getting it's face fed to them predictably. Having the worst farm system in baseball and putting up a mediocre roster (again) is the sign of a terrible front office. This team isn't winning a round again.

Trolling isn't criticizing Masai. It's that Ed Rogers is 'turning this around' when the Jays have been incredible medicore and set to be bad for the next decade.

[Randle McMurphy]

And the Raptors have won a title, made the 2nd round (almost ECF) and made the 1st round in the last decade.

The 'playoffs' that made were wild card births that we got easily eliminated from. The Jays have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB and we're still an incredibly meh team that is due to regression and fall out of the hunt. Despite your hero Varsho.

You're trolling. stop.

The Raptors have been one of the worst run directionless organizations in the sport since the end of the 2020 bubble. There’s really no debate about that. It’s so bad for them right now that Masai is currently trying to break up the treadmill core of players he built to trade for a 37 year old that will hamstring the franchise for the remainder of the decade. There is no world in which he’d be allowed to do any of this for this long if not for the free pass he’s gotten from 2019.

And who cares what the Jays’ playoff berths were? The MLB playoffs are such a complete crapshoot that anybody who gets into the dance has a shot to win it all. The Jays have done that 3 times now this decade and look like they could do it again this year. Again, there’s really no comparison at all between the two franchises from a performance perspective at this point. My reasons for ditching Shapiro and Atkins have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with process.

And trolling implies that I don’t seriously believe that Masai Ujiri has to go. I honestly don’t see how anybody could possibly stand by the guy at this point. Put his name up in the rafters but get him out of the organization already and start over before he does any further damage.

No it's not a total crapshoot. The jays didn't win a game all 3 times. That's not a crapshoot, that's a medicore roster getting it's face fed to them predictably. Having the worst farm system in baseball and putting up a mediocre roster (again) is the sign of a terrible front office. This team isn't winning a round again.

Trolling isn't criticizing Masai. It's that Ed Rogers is 'turning this around' when the Jays have been incredible medicore and set to be bad for the next decade.

It’s a complete and total crapshoot in baseball, yes. It’s the nature of baseball in that kind of tiny sample. If it wasn’t, the Dodgers would literally win the WS every single season.

For yet another example, the 2015 Jays were one of the best teams this century and lost to a Royals team that wasn’t even close to their caliber because they played a 7 game series where David Price had a bad start.

If this year’s Jays make the playoffs, sure they’ll probably lose to the Tigers or someone else. But anybody can win 3-4 games against any other team in that kind of sample.

And MLSE as currently structured has given Masai this free pass to mismanage for 5 years. The fact that Ed is taking control shortly, a guy who we know has actually questioned the ludicrous contract Masai got, is every reason to hope we might actually get some change this time around.

[Duffman100]

The Raptors have been one of the worst run directionless organizations in the sport since the end of the 2020 bubble. There’s really no debate about that. It’s so bad for them right now that Masai is currently trying to break up the treadmill core of players he built to trade for a 37 year old that will hamstring the franchise for the remainder of the decade. There is no world in which he’d be allowed to do any of this for this long if not for the free pass he’s gotten from 2019.

And who cares what the Jays’ playoff berths were? The MLB playoffs are such a complete crapshoot that anybody who gets into the dance has a shot to win it all. The Jays have done that 3 times now this decade and look like they could do it again this year. Again, there’s really no comparison at all between the two franchises from a performance perspective at this point. My reasons for ditching Shapiro and Atkins have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with process.

And trolling implies that I don’t seriously believe that Masai Ujiri has to go. I honestly don’t see how anybody could possibly stand by the guy at this point. Put his name up in the rafters but get him out of the organization already and start over before he does any further damage.

No it's not a total crapshoot. The jays didn't win a game all 3 times. That's not a crapshoot, that's a medicore roster getting it's face fed to them predictably. Having the worst farm system in baseball and putting up a mediocre roster (again) is the sign of a terrible front office. This team isn't winning a round again.

Trolling isn't criticizing Masai. It's that Ed Rogers is 'turning this around' when the Jays have been incredible medicore and set to be bad for the next decade.

It’s a complete and total crapshoot in baseball, yes. It’s the nature of baseball in that kind of tiny sample. If it wasn’t, the Dodgers would literally win the WS every single season.

For yet another example, the 2015 Jays were one of the best teams this century and lost to a Royals team that wasn’t even close to their caliber because they played a 7 game series where David Price had a bad start.

If this year’s Jays make the playoffs, sure they’ll probably lose to the Tigers or someone else. But anybody can win 3-4 games against any other team in that kind of sample.

And MLSE as currently structured has given Masai this free pass to mismanage for 5 years. The fact that Ed is taking control shortly, a guy who we know has actually questioned the ludicrous contract Masai got, is every reason to hope we might actually get some change this time around.

Right so our medicore team just got unlucky each WC that last 3 times. That makes sense.

[kalel123]

He’s 30 though not worth resigning Masai was a smart man

If you want to criticize Masai about anything regarding the Siakam trade, criticize him for putting a horrific roster out there for years making the decision to move him all but a requirement. Zero spacing = ineffective Siakam, project 6'9 was a massive failure and effectively resulting in us having to blow up the team.

True.

I still think we should've found a way to resign Siakam after having failed to trade him in timely manner tanking his trade value. Even if just to rebuild his value back up (should things not work out) with more control on that contract. We really got **** back for him even after the convoluted logic of the so-called Siakam trade "tree" some like to refer to. So to me, that deserves criticism, too, on top of what you already pointed out.

[binjumper]

The Raptors have been one of the worst run directionless organizations in the sport since the end of the 2020 bubble. There’s really no debate about that. It’s so bad for them right now that Masai is currently trying to break up the treadmill core of players he built to trade for a 37 year old that will hamstring the franchise for the remainder of the decade. There is no world in which he’d be allowed to do any of this for this long if not for the free pass he’s gotten from 2019.

And who cares what the Jays’ playoff berths were? The MLB playoffs are such a complete crapshoot that anybody who gets into the dance has a shot to win it all. The Jays have done that 3 times now this decade and look like they could do it again this year. Again, there’s really no comparison at all between the two franchises from a performance perspective at this point. My reasons for ditching Shapiro and Atkins have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with process.

And trolling implies that I don’t seriously believe that Masai Ujiri has to go. I honestly don’t see how anybody could possibly stand by the guy at this point. Put his name up in the rafters but get him out of the organization already and start over before he does any further damage.

No it's not a total crapshoot. The jays didn't win a game all 3 times. That's not a crapshoot, that's a medicore roster getting it's face fed to them predictably. Having the worst farm system in baseball and putting up a mediocre roster (again) is the sign of a terrible front office. This team isn't winning a round again.

Trolling isn't criticizing Masai. It's that Ed Rogers is 'turning this around' when the Jays have been incredible medicore and set to be bad for the next decade.

It’s a complete and total crapshoot in baseball, yes. It’s the nature of baseball in that kind of tiny sample. If it wasn’t, the Dodgers would literally win the WS every single season.

For yet another example, the 2015 Jays were one of the best teams this century and lost to a Royals team that wasn’t even close to their caliber because they played a 7 game series where David Price had a bad start.

If this year’s Jays make the playoffs, sure they’ll probably lose to the Tigers or someone else. But anybody can win 3-4 games against any other team in that kind of sample.

And MLSE as currently structured has given Masai this free pass to mismanage for 5 years. The fact that Ed is taking control shortly, a guy who we know has actually questioned the ludicrous contract Masai got, is every reason to hope we might actually get some change this time around.

This has to be e.d rogers burner account

[Randle McMurphy]

No it's not a total crapshoot. The jays didn't win a game all 3 times. That's not a crapshoot, that's a medicore roster getting it's face fed to them predictably. Having the worst farm system in baseball and putting up a mediocre roster (again) is the sign of a terrible front office. This team isn't winning a round again.

Trolling isn't criticizing Masai. It's that Ed Rogers is 'turning this around' when the Jays have been incredible medicore and set to be bad for the next decade.

It’s a complete and total crapshoot in baseball, yes. It’s the nature of baseball in that kind of tiny sample. If it wasn’t, the Dodgers would literally win the WS every single season.

For yet another example, the 2015 Jays were one of the best teams this century and lost to a Royals team that wasn’t even close to their caliber because they played a 7 game series where David Price had a bad start.

If this year’s Jays make the playoffs, sure they’ll probably lose to the Tigers or someone else. But anybody can win 3-4 games against any other team in that kind of sample.

And MLSE as currently structured has given Masai this free pass to mismanage for 5 years. The fact that Ed is taking control shortly, a guy who we know has actually questioned the ludicrous contract Masai got, is every reason to hope we might actually get some change this time around.

Right so our medicore team just got unlucky each WC that last 3 times. That makes sense.

To lose every single game? Absolutely yes. The chances of that happening in baseball are pretty minuscule. Even the terrible White Sox win 1 out of every 3 games they play against much better teams.