Zach's WTF Teams (Raptors 1 of 3)

[___Rand___]

Zach's pretty even-handed. He likes all of our starting five individually, but has doubts about their ability to function together. In particular, BI, RJ and IQ do not have a history of playing in ball-sharing-heavy offences... or a long track record of making teams/teammates better. That's the offence.

On defence, he does think they will do well, but calls out those who trumpet how the team finished last year, given that many of the key starters were not the primary contributors and the soft schedule to end the season.

What could turn his opinion around? Scotty takes an All-NBA level leap and/or IQ plays the way he's being paid to play. He does like the bench, but also does not yet see a next-gen star on our current bench. Acknowledges that the team has all of its picks and a good deal of flexibility going forward. Thinks Jak got paid what he's worth.

I would say his primary concern is the team's ability to shoot 3s at a clip that can keep them competitive in today's NBA... and how BI and RJ are going to function together.

Good summary.

I don't think he mentioned liking RJ but yes he and the co-host doesn't know how the pieces fit together. I don't disagree. When Masai made the moves, I didn't question it because, I have faith in Masai, he obviously knows better than I do. There was quiet questions which I quashed.

The team is close to the cap. It's a lot of salaries. And my biggest problem for this roster is, the coach who's supposed to bring this all together and work the magic. He's not that guy. I haven't seen the capability from him in the 1st year when he had a potential Finals MVP and all the pieces on other teams people are raving about and made them look WORSE than Nurse - on offense which is supposedly his specialty, and on DEFENSE which was a top half or top 3rd defensive team in the year prior.

And I have ZERO FAITH in Ed Rogers to manage this team. Sure he can make money in a monopoly. But in a competitive situation? He's NEVER MANAGED in a competitive market like the NBA!!!

How do you know that Darko is not that guy?

It’s pretty clear that lineup he inherited in 2023 was not meant to last

-O.G knew he was gone (UFA summer 2024 and didn’t plan to resign with us)
-Siakam knew he was gone. He knew that the front office was trying to trade him. Even if he was a professional and was hoping to stay a Raptor it’s clear the relation between Siakam and the team was broken . Siakam didn’t look happy before he was traded.
-FVV just left leaving a hole at PG position

There was a lot of uncertainty. Then a massive overhaul of the roster. Then Barnes / Poeltl got injured. Then Families issues for RJ/Quick

For a rookie coach , I don’t think we should blame him too much for that season.

As for last season the team was fun to watch up to early December . We called it the ethical tank.

Then everything went downhill from early Dec to Mid Jan

From mid Jan to end of season, yes the season was easy but the team did rest many players and still was able to have a winning record in last stretch of the season.

The rookie did very good

He seems to be very good to develop players

Also I think Darko was better in his challenges in the second half of last season

We will how this season goes but it’s too soon to write Darko off IMO.

We will know more this season

Because I watch every game his first year and how horrendous he was in every aspect of coaching visible to us - the team didn't look prepared, he was changing and adjusting his offense after 1st month because he didn't have the personnel to run his type of offense (a coach is supposed to know this kind of crap!!!), the 11th-ranked defense to 26th the next year (yadiyada we traded OG and Pascal), his rotations, adjustments, inability to call times outs during opponent's runs, plays out of time outs, etc etc. There are literally hundreds of threads about this where have you been?

EVERYBODY making excuses for him like he's a baby. I just don't get the love this mediocre coach gets on this board.

"oh he didn't have this he didn't have that, he's still new" yeah if he is new THIS isn't the level to be getting on training wheels!

[Johnston]

Zach's pretty even-handed. He likes all of our starting five individually, but has doubts about their ability to function together. In particular, BI, RJ and IQ do not have a history of playing in ball-sharing-heavy offences... or a long track record of making teams/teammates better. That's the offence.

On defence, he does think they will do well, but calls out those who trumpet how the team finished last year, given that many of the key starters were not the primary contributors and the soft schedule to end the season.

What could turn his opinion around? Scotty takes an All-NBA level leap and/or IQ plays the way he's being paid to play. He does like the bench, but also does not yet see a next-gen star on our current bench. Acknowledges that the team has all of its picks and a good deal of flexibility going forward. Thinks Jak got paid what he's worth.

I would say his primary concern is the team's ability to shoot 3s at a clip that can keep them competitive in today's NBA... and how BI and RJ are going to function together.

Idk, I think with exception of IQ (who isn't a bad passer but not someone I'd consider a real.playmaking PG) everyone in the starting 5 are over average passers for their position.

[Los_29]

The take is a little out there, no one can shoot? Quick and Ingram are obvious shooters, you replace RJ with a shooter (Dick, Jakobe, Ochai) and it is balanced enough... Not may teams around the league with 5 shooters

Dick and Jakobe are definitely not shooters...Ingram and Quickley can be shooters. The only true shooters on this team is Ochaji and Battle. Shooters are guys that are hitting 37%+ from the 3point line. Thats 4. Problem is you cant play these 4 players at the same time. Or Poetl will foul out in 20minutes..

Where did you get this 37% number? Did you just make it up? lol.

You can’t just look at percentage. You have to look at the degree of difficulty as well. There are lots of guys in this league that stick to assisted, corner 3s. That’s a much easier shot than the threes that Tatum or Luka take. That doesn’t mean they are better shooters than them. Teams view Gradey as a shooter as well even if his percentage is below your cut off lol.

[CPT]

I wills ay Zach Lowe is slipping. He called Jakobe Walter - Jabari Walker at one point. For a guy who prides himself on knowing the lesser known guys, that was a flub.

This stuff is all for engagement hits and they definitely got it from Toronto fans who he refers to as Spooky Mulder conspiracy types very accurately.

Weren’t they talking about actual Jabari Walker on Philly at that point?

[djcldy]

Honestly who gives a hoot what these guys think - what are their BBALL credentials?

[Shakril]

It comes down to RJ beeing the odd man out. BI, Scottie and RJ have too much overlap to work. And add IQ and we have 4 players that demand the ball.

Instead of RJ i want a defensive minded guy in the lineup, if he can shoot the 3, the better.

[Tha Cynic]

It’s hard to gauge American media true opinion of the Raptors when they all admit that they know the Raptors have a huge online presence. All their opinions are being influenced by it, so they more likely give more extreme opinions of the Raptors.

[tecumseh18]

It comes down to RJ beeing the odd man out. BI, Scottie and RJ have too much overlap to work. And add IQ and we have 4 players that demand the ball.

Instead of RJ i want a defensive minded guy in the lineup, if he can shoot the 3, the better.

Walter should be starting by the trade deadline.

[Mr Funk]

Just listened. I agree with most of what they said, though I don’t think our young guys on the bench are as much of an afterthought as they insinuated.

Three most important takeaways - which I think are spot on:
1. Everything has been bet on Scottie
2. This is IQ’s prove it year
3. RJ has to go

Surprised and disappointed that Lowe didn't address the proverbial elephant in the room, that we're looking to make a trade and that the starting roster isn't complete, which is also a pretty open secret. Plus of course the fact that we're using the OKC template to rebuild and pretty much the entire media is sleeping on it.

[ForeverTFC]

Just listened. I agree with most of what they said, though I don’t think our young guys on the bench are as much of an afterthought as they insinuated.

Three most important takeaways - which I think are spot on:
1. Everything has been bet on Scottie
2. This is IQ’s prove it year
3. RJ has to go

Surprised and disappointed that Lowe didn't address the proverbial elephant in the room, that we're looking to make a trade and that the starting roster isn't complete, which is also a pretty open secret. Plus of course the fact that we're using the OKC template to rebuild and pretty much the entire media is sleeping on it.

He did. They said it’s very hard to trade these guys under the current CBA for anything of value.

[Mattatron]

The take is a little out there, no one can shoot? Quick and Ingram are obvious shooters, you replace RJ with a shooter (Dick, Jakobe, Ochai) and it is balanced enough... Not may teams around the league with 5 shooters

When basketball heads talk about shooters, they nornally mean players that can shoot the hell out of the ball and create spacing for others with their range. Ingram is not known to be a shooter, or shooting at a high clip from downtown. Heck he's a 36% career shooter, and hit about 1 or 2 threes a game. But this ain't his game. He's mire comfortable with jumpers/middies.

No, we don't have enough reliable shooters. Dick is unreliable, Walter small sample size. And both of them are not even proven shooters or nba 8 man rotation caliber players right now. So yeah, we still lack consistent shooting. That's a fact. 8th worst 3% shooting league wide. 3rd least taken 3 pointer league wide with 34pg

[DreamTeam09]

The take is a little out there, no one can shoot? Quick and Ingram are obvious shooters, you replace RJ with a shooter (Dick, Jakobe, Ochai) and it is balanced enough... Not may teams around the league with 5 shooters

When basketball heads talk about shooters, they nornally mean players that can shoot the hell out of the ball and create spacing for others with their range. Ingram is not known to be a shooter, or shooting at a high clip from downtown. Heck he's a 36% career shooter, and hit about 1 or 2 threes a game. But this ain't his game. He's mire comfortable with jumpers/middies.

No, we don't have enough reliable shooters. Dick is unreliable, Walter small sample size. And both of them are not even proven shooters or nba 8 man rotation caliber players right now. So yeah, we still lack consistent shooting. That's a fact. 8th worst 3% shooting league wide. 3rd least taken 3 pointer league wide with 34pg

Who shoots the heck out of the ball on the two finals team?

[Smalltown]

I don't know why the US media is so focused on the tax aspect of this team. We're less than a mill over, and it will be easy to duck under at some point before the end of the season.

This x 100. They will be under the tax by the end of the season. We've seen this movie tons of times. It's a non-issue.

[deeps6x]

It comes down to RJ beeing the odd man out. BI, Scottie and RJ have too much overlap to work. And add IQ and we have 4 players that demand the ball.

Instead of RJ i want a defensive minded guy in the lineup, if he can shoot the 3, the better.

Walter should be starting by the trade deadline.

Or perhaps after it, once a spot is opened up for him.

[nikster]

Zach's pretty even-handed. He likes all of our starting five individually, but has doubts about their ability to function together. In particular, BI, RJ and IQ do not have a history of playing in ball-sharing-heavy offences... or a long track record of making teams/teammates better. That's the offence.

On defence, he does think they will do well, but calls out those who trumpet how the team finished last year, given that many of the key starters were not the primary contributors and the soft schedule to end the season.

What could turn his opinion around? Scotty takes an All-NBA level leap and/or IQ plays the way he's being paid to play. He does like the bench, but also does not yet see a next-gen star on our current bench. Acknowledges that the team has all of its picks and a good deal of flexibility going forward. Thinks Jak got paid what he's worth.

I would say his primary concern is the team's ability to shoot 3s at a clip that can keep them competitive in today's NBA... and how BI and RJ are going to function together.

Good summary.

I don't think he mentioned liking RJ but yes he and the co-host doesn't know how the pieces fit together. I don't disagree. When Masai made the moves, I didn't question it because, I have faith in Masai, he obviously knows better than I do. There was quiet questions which I quashed.

The team is close to the cap. It's a lot of salaries. And my biggest problem for this roster is, the coach who's supposed to bring this all together and work the magic. He's not that guy. I haven't seen the capability from him in the 1st year when he had a potential Finals MVP and all the pieces on other teams people are raving about and made them look WORSE than Nurse - on offense which is supposedly his specialty, and on DEFENSE which was a top half or top 3rd defensive team in the year prior.

And I have ZERO FAITH in Ed Rogers to manage this team. Sure he can make money in a monopoly. But in a competitive situation? He's NEVER MANAGED in a competitive market like the NBA!!!

How do you know that Darko is not that guy?

It’s pretty clear that lineup he inherited in 2023 was not meant to last

-O.G knew he was gone (UFA summer 2024 and didn’t plan to resign with us)
-Siakam knew he was gone. He knew that the front office was trying to trade him. Even if he was a professional and was hoping to stay a Raptor it’s clear the relation between Siakam and the team was broken . Siakam didn’t look happy before he was traded.
-FVV just left leaving a hole at PG position

There was a lot of uncertainty. Then a massive overhaul of the roster. Then Barnes / Poeltl got injured. Then Families issues for RJ/Quick

For a rookie coach , I don’t think we should blame him too much for that season.

As for last season the team was fun to watch up to early December . We called it the ethical tank.

Then everything went downhill from early Dec to Mid Jan

From mid Jan to end of season, yes the season was easy but the team did rest many players and still was able to have a winning record in last stretch of the season.

The rookie did very good

He seems to be very good to develop players

Also I think Darko was better in his challenges in the second half of last season

We will how this season goes but it’s too soon to write Darko off IMO.

We will know more this season

I also think people often forget what Siakam did those last 30 games. People tend to gloss over it because the team struggled, but statistically that might the best regular season stretch of his career.
23.5/6/5 on 62TS%. He did that with Schroder as the only PG on the team, terrible shooting around him and no bench. I find the notion that Darko couldn't maximize Pascal giving a proper chance absurd given what we've seen.

[SFour]

Good summary.

I don't think he mentioned liking RJ but yes he and the co-host doesn't know how the pieces fit together. I don't disagree. When Masai made the moves, I didn't question it because, I have faith in Masai, he obviously knows better than I do. There was quiet questions which I quashed.

The team is close to the cap. It's a lot of salaries. And my biggest problem for this roster is, the coach who's supposed to bring this all together and work the magic. He's not that guy. I haven't seen the capability from him in the 1st year when he had a potential Finals MVP and all the pieces on other teams people are raving about and made them look WORSE than Nurse - on offense which is supposedly his specialty, and on DEFENSE which was a top half or top 3rd defensive team in the year prior.

And I have ZERO FAITH in Ed Rogers to manage this team. Sure he can make money in a monopoly. But in a competitive situation? He's NEVER MANAGED in a competitive market like the NBA!!!

How do you know that Darko is not that guy?

It’s pretty clear that lineup he inherited in 2023 was not meant to last

-O.G knew he was gone (UFA summer 2024 and didn’t plan to resign with us)
-Siakam knew he was gone. He knew that the front office was trying to trade him. Even if he was a professional and was hoping to stay a Raptor it’s clear the relation between Siakam and the team was broken . Siakam didn’t look happy before he was traded.
-FVV just left leaving a hole at PG position

There was a lot of uncertainty. Then a massive overhaul of the roster. Then Barnes / Poeltl got injured. Then Families issues for RJ/Quick

For a rookie coach , I don’t think we should blame him too much for that season.

As for last season the team was fun to watch up to early December . We called it the ethical tank.

Then everything went downhill from early Dec to Mid Jan

From mid Jan to end of season, yes the season was easy but the team did rest many players and still was able to have a winning record in last stretch of the season.

The rookie did very good

He seems to be very good to develop players

Also I think Darko was better in his challenges in the second half of last season

We will how this season goes but it’s too soon to write Darko off IMO.

We will know more this season

I also think people often forget what Siakam did those last 30 games. People tend to gloss over it because the team struggled, but statistically that might the best regular season stretch of his career.
23.5/6/5 on 62TS%. He did that with Schroder as the only PG on the team, terrible shooting around him and no bench. I find the notion that Darko couldn't maximize Pascal giving a proper chance absurd given what we've seen.

He was great offensively but his defense suffered....the effort wasn't there defensively and he looked lazy at times. Siakam's at his best when he's a 2-way player. He did regain that with the Pacers.

[Pointgod]

The take is a little out there, no one can shoot? Quick and Ingram are obvious shooters, you replace RJ with a shooter (Dick, Jakobe, Ochai) and it is balanced enough... Not may teams around the league with 5 shooters

When basketball heads talk about shooters, they nornally mean players that can shoot the hell out of the ball and create spacing for others with their range. Ingram is not known to be a shooter, or shooting at a high clip from downtown. Heck he's a 36% career shooter, and hit about 1 or 2 threes a game. But this ain't his game. He's mire comfortable with jumpers/middies.

No, we don't have enough reliable shooters. Dick is unreliable, Walter small sample size. And both of them are not even proven shooters or nba 8 man rotation caliber players right now. So yeah, we still lack consistent shooting. That's a fact. 8th worst 3% shooting league wide. 3rd least taken 3 pointer league wide with 34pg

Who shoots the heck out of the ball on the two finals team?

OKC had Chet, Shai, Dort, Wiggins, Mitchell, Joe, Jaylin Williams, Kenrich Williams all shoot over 37% from 3 as guys who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

Indiana had Haliburton, Siakam, Turner, Nesmith, Walker as guys who shot over 37% from 3 who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

[DreamTeam09]

When basketball heads talk about shooters, they nornally mean players that can shoot the hell out of the ball and create spacing for others with their range. Ingram is not known to be a shooter, or shooting at a high clip from downtown. Heck he's a 36% career shooter, and hit about 1 or 2 threes a game. But this ain't his game. He's mire comfortable with jumpers/middies.

No, we don't have enough reliable shooters. Dick is unreliable, Walter small sample size. And both of them are not even proven shooters or nba 8 man rotation caliber players right now. So yeah, we still lack consistent shooting. That's a fact. 8th worst 3% shooting league wide. 3rd least taken 3 pointer league wide with 34pg

Who shoots the heck out of the ball on the two finals team?

OKC had Chet, Shai, Dort, Wiggins, Mitchell, Joe, Jaylin Williams, Kenrich Williams all shoot over 37% from 3 as guys who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

Indiana had Haliburton, Siakam, Turner, Nesmith, Walker as guys who shot over 37% from 3 who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

So 1% above league avg, would you consider any of the guys you listed knockdown shooters, shooters who shoot the lights out?

[ArthurVandelay]

I don’t see the criticism of the criticism on state of Raptors. They aren’t balanced based on the skills people bring relative to what they are paid.

The solutions are to consolidate via trade and/or have RJ as 6th man imo.

Starting lineup needs a 3&D player.

Not understanding the BI trade is dumb though. Acquiring a player of that talent level on the wing at that cost is a no brainer.

[Mattatron]

Who shoots the heck out of the ball on the two finals team?

OKC had Chet, Shai, Dort, Wiggins, Mitchell, Joe, Jaylin Williams, Kenrich Williams all shoot over 37% from 3 as guys who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

Indiana had Haliburton, Siakam, Turner, Nesmith, Walker as guys who shot over 37% from 3 who got more than 15 minutes in the regular season.

So 1% above league avg, would you consider any of the guys you listed knockdown shooters, shooters who shoot the lights out?

Nesmith shot 48% (!!) during the Playoffs, Pacers had 3 40+% shooters in the Postseason. Haliburton hits 3+ three pointer per game.

OKC also has a lot of guys that can shoot the ball at a high clip.
And obviously they are the best team and got the mvp. So don't compare them to us.

Korver, Redick, Danny Green etc all were Knockdown shooters, so is a guy like Nesmith. Let them shoot 8 or 9 threes per game and they will hit 3~5 threes per game, guys like these elevate a team and freeing up space. Something our guys can't do. Not yet. As we can see. If that would be the case we wouldn't be dead last on 3 point shooting. What's the problem with admitting?