Positive QUAD Talk (Scottie/BI/RJ/IQ)

[LoveMyRaps]

RJ is playing the best basketball of his life right now - 65TS%, 2.1BPM, .133WS/48

[Psubs]

I want to see RJ stick around with the raptors for his career, hes shown a willingness to adapt his game and you know he will play his heart out. Still feels like hes improving after 6 years in the league, keep RJ longterm!

It shows that he's been working hard and the right way to make his game a positive. I've changed my stance on trading him.

Scottie, taking less than Max, BI taking less than market on his extension, and RJ needs to sacrifice a little even though his next contract will get a raise.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[tsherkin]

Funny how much a 3 ball changes the perception of the player.

On one hand you have IQ missing 3's he usually makes (and the consensus is he is a scrub), on the other you have Scottie making 3's he usually missed (and he is a leader, big, etc.)

I have generally been hesitant to evaluate IQ in threads because I haven't been player-watching him too much, so I keep missing what he's doing that's pissing everyone off besides having some struggles with his shot and the odd dumb foul in our pressure defense.

Scottie is simply just getting put into better situations. Career high in assisted 2pt% (60% right now, previous high was 45%), and he is a little smarter with his shot selection. Overall though, his base box score figures are nearly identical to the last two years, just with better 3 point shooting. He is 14/26 on above the break 3's this year which is mental (for reference, was about 26% on those shots last year).

Ayep. He looks quicker and more aggressive on his drives, he isn't over-shooting, he's making an emphasis to get inside but he's got the opportunity to work inside the type of sets many of us have been clamoring for over the past couple years, and it's working out.

But his %'s at the rim, mid range, etc. are all virtually the same. Rebounds/assists are down, stocks are up. Eye-test wise though he looks much improved, although the stats don't support that yet.

His 2FG% is okay. Not as bad as 2022 or 2024, but still not league-average or better. He's presently setting a career-high in FG% in the RA. His shooting from 3-16 feet has sucked.

Very, VERY important to remember that if Scottie's 3 point goes back to his career averages (which unfortunately, is the most likely outcome), his expected TS% is 53%.

Sure. This is the positive trio talk thread, though, so I was trying to be up about it.

Also not to nitpick, but if his 3 pointer drops to 35%, his TS% will be 54.9%, not 58.5%.

So Scottie's at 65 FGM, 127 FGA, 18 3PM, 37 3PA, 19 FTM and 26 FTA. That's 167 points.

So looking at his present totals and 8 games played. If you drop his 3P% to 35%, that's 12.95 3PM, which reduces his points to 161.95. 161.95 / (2* (127 +(.44*26))) = 58.49% TS.

You're talking about a difference of roughly 5 3PM / 5 points. To drop down to 54.9%, he'd have to be shooting 8.1% from 3 over the current sample, or have only 4 makes on the year.

I 100% expect the 3 ball % to drop (and will be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't), but his defensive energy and better shot selection has been great, and was exactly what I said would be what he would have to do to make me happy this year. So glad it has happened, with an improved 3-ball on top of it all.

[TheDunc]

I want to see RJ stick around with the raptors for his career, hes shown a willingness to adapt his game and you know he will play his heart out. Still feels like hes improving after 6 years in the league, keep RJ longterm!

I don't care if he's a Raptor for life or not, but I do give him props for adapting his game. Most top picks would never change their games, especially after having tasted high usage ISO ball.

Fair enough but if hes not the type of player you invest in longterm then im not sure who is. Obviously we all want the next big thing but apart from that we literally have an all star type talent from the city he plays in, match made in heaven for me

[YogurtProducer]

Also not to nitpick, but if his 3 pointer drops to 35%, his TS% will be 54.9%, not 58.5%.

So Scottie's at 65 FGM, 127 FGA, 18 3PM, 37 3PA, 19 FTM and 26 FTA. That's 167 points.

So looking at his present totals and 8 games played. If you drop his 3P% to 35%, that's 12.95 3PM, which reduces his points to 161.95. 161.95 / (2* (127 +(.44*26))) = 58.49% TS.

You're talking about a difference of roughly 5 3PM / 5 points. To drop down to 54.9%, he'd have to be shooting 8.1% from 3 over the current sample, or have only 4 makes on the year.

You got a little math error.

He has hit 18 3's this year (54 points). If he shot 35%, he would have hit 12.95 (lets round to 13). 13 3's hit is only 39 points for a decrease of 15 points over actual, not 5 points as you have currently calculated.

152 points / (2* (127 +(.44*26))) = 54.90TS%

And you are right - this is a positive thread. And my positivity to this is that Scottie is "expected" to have scored 15 points (or more) so far this season, but on the flip side, if we do this exact same exercise for IQ, we expect him to have hit 4 more 3's, or 12 points. So really if Scottie regresses and IQ progresses we are at a net loss of 3 whopping points over 8 games. Reasons to be optimistic!!

Apply this to RJ and Ingram, and there is really no expected losses. Ingram is shooting right at career levels from 3, and RJ is immaterially higher (and actually is shooting less from the corner, so if his shot diet goes back to career norms from 3 it might even be reason to be optimistic for improvement)

[anotherhomer]

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The takeaway i read from this article is we maximized barnes. We not going to get a better version.

If ppl are OK with this version great, if not, im not against trading barnes for another player if chance presents itself

[tsherkin]

You got a little math error.

He has hit 18 3's this year (54 points). If he shot 35%, he would have hit 12.95 (lets round to 13). 13 3's hit is only 39 points for a decrease of 15 points over actual, not 5 points as you have currently calculated.

Oh you're right. I left the FGM untouched, I only altered the 3PM.

Whoops!

Well spotted.

[Boogie!]

Poeltl and IQ have reps as reliable and definitely NBA caliber players. They should pick it up soon and figure out their roles in this offense.

Move the ball, attack weak links, win and everyone eats.

Selfish ball like we saw with Siakam can be really bad. He changed in Indiana because it's Hali's team.

Everyone in our line up is a good to great passer. They know how to make and leverage space.

They just need team to build chemistry. I think Masai knows what he was doing and this team is for real.

We'll make the playoffs this year.

We'll get to the 2nd round next year.

Then we win it all.

This horrendous take again?

Any time Siakam was off the floor our half court offense completely collapsed to “worst ever” levels. But sure, Siakam was the problem.

Calling siakam selfish has to be one of the all time worst takes.

[Boogie!]

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The takeaway i read from this article is we maximized barnes. We not going to get a better version.

If ppl are OK with this version great, if not, im not against trading barnes for another player if chance presents itself

Barnes entire offensive potential is contingent on him being able to hit open 3s and no one wants to admit it.

[tsherkin]

Barnes entire offensive potential is contingent on him being able to hit open 3s and no one wants to admit it.

This is a thread for positivity, Boogie. There are other threads where you can exercise your broader take on Scottie.

Here, we're just trying to focus on a strong start to the season.

[YogurtProducer]

Poeltl and IQ have reps as reliable and definitely NBA caliber players. They should pick it up soon and figure out their roles in this offense.

Move the ball, attack weak links, win and everyone eats.

Selfish ball like we saw with Siakam can be really bad. He changed in Indiana because it's Hali's team.

Everyone in our line up is a good to great passer. They know how to make and leverage space.

They just need team to build chemistry. I think Masai knows what he was doing and this team is for real.

We'll make the playoffs this year.

We'll get to the 2nd round next year.

Then we win it all.

This horrendous take again?

Any time Siakam was off the floor our half court offense completely collapsed to “worst ever” levels. But sure, Siakam was the problem.

Calling siakam selfish has to be one of the all time worst takes.

Especially when suddenly he is fine with Ingram now, who really is a very similar player to Siakam in terms of usage / shot taking / playmaking ability.

Siakam was a good passer/playmaker. You don't put up a 3:1 AST/TO ratio if you aren't.

[Boogie!]

Barnes entire offensive potential is contingent on him being able to hit open 3s and no one wants to admit it.

This is a thread for positivity, Boogie. There are other threads where you can exercise your broader take on Scottie.

Here, we're just trying to focus on a strong start to the season.

This is positive. I’m basically emphasizing that Barnes should keep shooting and I’m happy with his success in that regard. But he needs to make it a consistent part of his game and we need to stop talking about how he needs to abandon it like he’s Giannis level inside.

[ReggieSlater]

Silly goal post stat, but looking over the other teams, no one else has three players averaging over 20ppg. It could work as on offensive identity.

[tsherkin]

This is positive. I’m basically emphasizing that Barnes should keep shooting and I’m happy with his success in that regard. But he needs to make it a consistent part of his game and we need to stop talking about how he needs to abandon it like he’s Giannis level inside.

Fair. Just checking in, I'm sure you understand.

But yes, he does need to find a degree of consistency. I think his approach when he has been inside the arc this year is good, but the 3 is definitely a difference-maker in his overall efficiency and value. He definitely isn't dominant in the middle, and he isn't dominant about the interior. He's been better about it so far this season, but he needs the three to extend his value, certainly. And he's had it so far this season. So we'll see what happens as the season wears on.

Yogurt just showed the correction on my math for what Scottie would look like in his present state at 35% from 3, so we need him to pick up his finishing. Some of that is early variance, of course: he's shooting under 35% from 3-10, and hasn't shot worse than 42.8% from there in a season to date, so that's going to improve. Some of it is that he's shooting 38.1% from 10-16 feet on about 17% of his total volume, which is far worse than last season but better than the two previous seasons. But he's at his career-high in both proportion (marginally) and FG% from 0-3 feet, which is encouraging, and getting a lot of passing support, which is even more encouraging. So there are some positive things to take away from the early start, for sure.

[YogurtProducer]

Silly goal post stat, but looking over the other teams, no one else has three players averaging over 20ppg. It could work as on offensive identity.

It probably is not possible to end the season like that. IQ is gonna have his PPG and usage likely rise a bit over the coming weeks/months, and currently those 3 are all BARELY hanging onto 20ppg despite all 3 putting up wild efficency.

I'd expect Ingrams usage to creep up, Barnes to creep down, and them finish with Ingram being a 23-24ppg guy, RJ at 20ppg, and Barnes/IQ in that 17-18ppg area?

That would be 78-80ish points between the 4 (currently, the 4 are at 76)

[tsherkin]

I'd expect Ingrams usage to creep up, Barnes to creep down, and them finish with Ingram being a 23-24ppg guy, RJ at 20ppg, and Barnes/IQ in that 17-18ppg area?

That would be ideal, for sure.

[Raps in 4]

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The takeaway i read from this article is we maximized barnes. We not going to get a better version.

If ppl are OK with this version great, if not, im not against trading barnes for another player if chance presents itself

Barnes entire offensive potential is contingent on him being able to hit open 3s and no one wants to admit it.

Yep. With a reliable 3pt shot, he's a top-15 player. We saw it at the start of last season too. Let's see if he can keep it going for longer than one month this time.

[PushDaRock]

This horrendous take again?

Any time Siakam was off the floor our half court offense completely collapsed to “worst ever” levels. But sure, Siakam was the problem.

Calling siakam selfish has to be one of the all time worst takes.

Especially when suddenly he is fine with Ingram now, who really is a very similar player to Siakam in terms of usage / shot taking / playmaking ability.

Siakam was a good passer/playmaker. You don't put up a 3:1 AST/TO ratio if you aren't.

Nurse was throwing all sorts of gimmicky crap out there to make up for our lack of depth and clear deficiencies on those teams.

The "playing selfish" stuff was kind of by design because they prioritized not turning it over which they hardly ever did, so that meant a lot more ISO's and less ball movement.

[anotherhomer]

The takeaway i read from this article is we maximized barnes. We not going to get a better version.

If ppl are OK with this version great, if not, im not against trading barnes for another player if chance presents itself

Barnes entire offensive potential is contingent on him being able to hit open 3s and no one wants to admit it.

Yep. With a reliable 3pt shot, he's a top-15 player. We saw it at the start of last season too. Let's see if he can keep it going for longer than one month this time.

i feel barnes 3 will come and go, as we seen all the time....but if it's consistent without losing other parts of his game, it's a big win....

i'm ok with that version of barnes