Raps are Good But CAUTIOUSLY optimistic thread

[PushDaRock]

To counter your points

1) Weak opponents/Injured teams

- That was the whole point of going for it this season. The entire association is stacked with injuries right now and the East is wide open. We're not the only ones playing injured teams (and we've also had to deal with injuries)

- we've actually had one of the harder schedules to start the season and have the played the fewest amount of home games. we now have one of the easiest remaining schedules

Can we even consider a team like Philly injured now? PG and Embiid will never play another b2b for the rest of their careers and embiids knee sounds like it will be a constant problem. I have my doubts either of them touch 35+ games this year.

I said the same thing last night. Sixers fans can't really whine about not having PG and Embiid since that will be the case for about 50 games this season. At this point you'd have to wonder if some of their FO execs are secretly hoping Embiid is medically forced to retire so they can just move on (not wishing this on him, I prefer him playing.....and failing).

I mean I can see why they whine though, that's over 100m in street clothes almost every night.

Issue is they still have George looking like dead weight even if they get Embiid to medically retire. Those 2 moves (Embiid extension and George signing) just looks like it has doomed them.

[Zeno]

Poeltl's absence having huge impact, much more than it really should, is not a new thing. It's been happening for a few years now. This isn't timing thing. It's a matter of roster imbalance and lack of ability or willingness from FO to properly address it.

Yes but this year’s roster is actually in theory better at compensating for his absence than in previous years with Scottie, CMB, Mogbo and Mamu all as viable small ball options. The problem is you can’t go small for a full 48 against teams who have true physical 5s plus size at the 4 too. Either way I agree this needs to be finally addressed as soon as possible.

In essence, we are complaining about lacking a 3rd string C that doesn't even see the floor on a normal night.

It's even less of an issue in the playoffs where small ball 5's are more common than not.

Point being, if we are having to play that 3rd string C extended mins in the first place, we are kind of already screwed.

I agree with this too, however I am not suggesting playing this 3rd stringer 30 minutes in these situations. More like 15 minutes just so you don’t get physically demoralized and exhausted against the biggest of opponents, otherwise they sit. This is basically having an Orlando Robinson instead of Mogbo. So this is a not much of a pressing issue, until it is of course.

[Airmiess]

They play like a good team, ive seen fake good teams like the DD and Lowry squads

[PushDaRock]

Yes but this year’s roster is actually in theory better at compensating for his absence than in previous years with Scottie, CMB, Mogbo and Mamu all as viable small ball options. The problem is you can’t go small for a full 48 against teams who have true physical 5s plus size at the 4 too. Either way I agree this needs to be finally addressed as soon as possible.

In essence, we are complaining about lacking a 3rd string C that doesn't even see the floor on a normal night.

It's even less of an issue in the playoffs where small ball 5's are more common than not.

Point being, if we are having to play that 3rd string C extended mins in the first place, we are kind of already screwed.

I agree with this too, however I am not suggesting playing this 3rd stringer 30 minutes in these situations. More like 15 minutes just so you don’t get physically demoralized and exhausted against the biggest of opponents, otherwise they sit. This is basically having an Orlando Robinson instead of Mogbo. So this is a not much of a pressing issue, until it is of course.

I expect something to be done at the deadline or after on the buy-out market. They will likely decide what to do with their tax situation before a move gets made there. That is unless Jak gets a major injury, which obviously changes things and it becomes a more pressing need.

[Psubs]

There's levels to this.

The goal should be to become a relatively consistent team that wins 45-50 games. Even if that entails losing in the 1st or 2nd round so be it. You can learn a lot about players from tough games and it makes it easier to decide who to build around longterm.

You evaluate your weaknesses and make moves to address those issues with the goal to become a 50+ win team. If you can get to this level, then you might just be one key move away from really making things interesting.

Very few teams go from 30 wins to title contender in a season. It's a process.

Or you make a run like the Blue Jays and make moves while Tatum, Haliburton, Embiid/George, are injured or not at 100%. I guess the Pistons went from missing the playoffs to 3 to 6 seed to top. Or can just make a run like Indiana.

[brownbobcat]

13/14 team vs 25/26 team


OFF rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 7th

DEF rating:
13/14: 10th
25/26: 15th

NET rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 9th

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

[LLJ]

There's levels to this.

The goal should be to become a relatively consistent team that wins 45-50 games. Even if that entails losing in the 1st or 2nd round so be it. You can learn a lot about players from tough games and it makes it easier to decide who to build around longterm.

You evaluate your weaknesses and make moves to address those issues with the goal to become a 50+ win team. If you can get to this level, then you might just be one key move away from really making things interesting.

Very few teams go from 30 wins to title contender in a season. It's a process.

Or you make a run like the Blue Jays and make moves while Tatum, Haliburton, Embiid/George, are injured or not at 100%. I guess the Pistons went from missing the playoffs to 3 to 6 seed to top. Or can just make a run like Indiana.

Baseball is less comparable to other sports because the higher amount of randomness inherent in it. Absolutely their regular season improvement is the biggest indicator of their improvement, but their deep playoff run depended on a lot of players getting hot at the same time.

For the most part basketball is generally more predictable once we are dealing with proven teams. Things average out a lot quicker in basketball because of the amount of shots taken a game, as opposed to the 5 or so at bats each batter gets every game in baseball. A 1-15 shooting slump may last only 1 or 2 games at most in basketball. Whereas in baseball a good player in a 1-15 batting slump could last 3 or 4 games, which can decide the series. Although I have seen some people wonder if the heavier reliance on 3s in the NBA has created a bit more variance nowadays in the playoffs.

[kalel123]

Yes but this year’s roster is actually in theory better at compensating for his absence than in previous years with Scottie, CMB, Mogbo and Mamu all as viable small ball options. The problem is you can’t go small for a full 48 against teams who have true physical 5s plus size at the 4 too. Either way I agree this needs to be finally addressed as soon as possible.

In essence, we are complaining about lacking a 3rd string C that doesn't even see the floor on a normal night.

It's even less of an issue in the playoffs where small ball 5's are more common than not.

Point being, if we are having to play that 3rd string C extended mins in the first place, we are kind of already screwed.

I agree with this too, however I am not suggesting playing this 3rd stringer 30 minutes in these situations. More like 15 minutes just so you don’t get physically demoralized and exhausted against the biggest of opponents, otherwise they sit. This is basically having an Orlando Robinson instead of Mogbo. So this is a not much of a pressing issue, until it is of course.

An Orlando Robinson doesn't make an ounce of difference. We've had those before and they did nothing to help us in absence of Poeltl. Wouldn't even be having this conversation if they did. You need a real NBA player who can play in regular rotation to make a real difference or at least someone with an actual shot/window at being one in the not too distant future. If that means some less minutes for CMB/Mamu and/or CMB/Mamu getting pushed up a slot to 3/4 then so be it.

[Anticon]

The East is worse than it's ever been. The only MVP candidates (Giannis, Embiid, and Tatum) are all out for the season or impacted by injury.

The best teams look to be Detroit, New York, and Cleveland. All good teams, but not squads you should be scared of.

The Raptors on the other hand are fairly balanced, hungry, and ready to go as so many guys have been resting and recovering from injuries over the past two years.

They have a ton of things to improve on. But I don't think there's any reason to minimize their potential. Every game against an East team is winneable , as is much of the west outside of the top teams (OKC, Denver, SAS, maybe LAL, Houston and Minnie).

[PushDaRock]

In essence, we are complaining about lacking a 3rd string C that doesn't even see the floor on a normal night.

It's even less of an issue in the playoffs where small ball 5's are more common than not.

Point being, if we are having to play that 3rd string C extended mins in the first place, we are kind of already screwed.

I agree with this too, however I am not suggesting playing this 3rd stringer 30 minutes in these situations. More like 15 minutes just so you don’t get physically demoralized and exhausted against the biggest of opponents, otherwise they sit. This is basically having an Orlando Robinson instead of Mogbo. So this is a not much of a pressing issue, until it is of course.

An Orlando Robinson doesn't make an ounce of difference. We've had those before and they did nothing to help us in absence of Poeltl. Wouldn't even be having this conversation if they did. You need a real NBA player who can play in regular rotation to make a real difference or at least someone with an actual shot/window at being one in the not too distant future. If that means some less minutes for CMB/Mamu and/or CMB/Mamu getting pushed up a slot to 3/4 then so be it.

Nah, I'd rather us not give less mins to Mamu and CMB. Mamu has been by far our best bench player and CMB has been really good for a rookie and needs the reps.

We are also murdering the other team's benches this season with Mamu at the 5, so the idea that we don't want him to play there just to have someone else with more size makes little sense.

[everdiso]

13/14 team vs 25/26 team


OFF rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 7th

DEF rating:
13/14: 10th
25/26: 15th

NET rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 9th

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

Barnes 24 --- Lowry 27
Ingram 28 --- Gay 27 / PPat 24
Barrett 25 --- Demar 24
Quickley 26 - Amir 26
Poeltl 30 ---- Jonas 21

Mamu 26 ---- Hayes 30
CMB 20 ------ Hansbrough 28
Dick 22 ------ Ross 22
Walter 21 --- Salmons 34
Shead 23 ---- Vazquez 27

Agbaji 25 --- Fields 25
Mogbo 24 --- Acy 23/Novak 30

[Clutch0z24]

Team basically is going to be as good as Ingram is healthy....Ingram does so much for the offense if he were to miss an extended period of time it could get very ugly like last year.

Its scary to have all faith in a player that has been so injured....But maybe this will be the year he holds it together.

[Tripod]

Next 5 games are important to grab 4/5 wins.

Being 14-6 allows the team to then run along playing "only" .500 bball and still end up with 49 wins. Or it allows for that inevitable slump to happen but still be a team over .500.

Last year, we didn't get our 1st road win until game 19 on Nov 27th. And our 2nd road win came on Jan 23rd....lol.

Also...we have 6 road wins right now. Last year it was March 2nd when we got our 6th road win.

Needless to say, let's enjoy this turnaround. After watching the Jays go on a miracle run, lots felt doom and gloom turning to the Raps. Instead, it's been a fun ride so far. And hopefully just getting started.

[brownbobcat]

13/14 team vs 25/26 team


OFF rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 7th

DEF rating:
13/14: 10th
25/26: 15th

NET rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 9th

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

Barnes 24 --- Lowry 27
Ingram 28 --- Gay 27 / PPat 24
Barrett 25 --- Demar 24
Quickley 26 - Amir 26
Poeltl 30 ---- Jonas 21

Mamu 26 ---- Hayes 30
CMB 20 ------ Hansbrough 28
Dick 22 ------ Ross 22
Walter 21 --- Salmons 34
Shead 23 ---- Vazquez 27

Agbaji 25 --- Fields 25
Mogbo 24 --- Acy 23/Novak 30

The starters on that 2014 team were JV/Amir/DD/Ross/Lowry, with PPat, Greivis and Salmons rounding out the top 8.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The 2014 team was really just buddy ball with only JV as a legit prospect. It's really remarkable what Masai did to keep elevating that team over the years as JV failed to really pan out as a top 5 pick.

This team's not built for a long time. You can't pay them all, but there's a lot of prospects that could help offset the tough calls they'll have to make with their starters.

[djsunyc]

Don’t overthink, just seated tight and enjoy the ride. The team has good chemistry, and is great to watch. Don’t put any expectations and just enjoy. Cheers

the right answer

[everdiso]

13/14 team vs 25/26 team


OFF rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 7th

DEF rating:
13/14: 10th
25/26: 15th

NET rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 9th

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

Barnes 24 --- Lowry 27
Ingram 28 --- Gay 27 / PPat 24
Barrett 25 --- Demar 24
Quickley 26 - Amir 26
Poeltl 30 ---- Jonas 21

Mamu 26 ---- Hayes 30
CMB 20 ------ Hansbrough 28
Dick 22 ------ Ross 22
Walter 21 --- Salmons 34
Shead 23 ---- Vazquez 27

Agbaji 25 --- Fields 25
Mogbo 24 --- Acy 23/Novak 30

but i think this team is much better than that 13-14 team anyways.


I'd compare them to later versions of that pre-kawhi team tbh.

lemme comp to the 17-18 team. very different styles and usage, but maybe pretty comparable overall.


Jonas (25): 77gms, 22.4mpg, 12.7pts, 62.8ts%, 22.7usg%, 7.5ast%/12.9to%
Poeltl (30): 11gms, 26.1mpg, 12.0pts, 71.6ts%, 15.5usg%, 10.0ast%/12.4to%

Siakam (23): 81gms, 20.7mpg, 7.3pts, 54.9ts%, 15.7usg%, 13.5ast%/11.1to%
Barnes (24): 15gms, 32.7mpg, 19.2pts, 57.8ts%, 24.2usg%, 23.4ast%/11.4to%

Ibaka (28): 76gms, 27.5mpg, 12.6pts, 57.4ts%, 19.4usg%, 4.4ast%/9.7to%
Ingram (28): 15gms, 33.3mpg, 20.9pts, 59.3ts%, 25.9ausg%, 16.8ast%/13.4to%

Demar (28): 80gms, 33.9mpg, 23.0pts, 55.5ts%, 29.6usg%, 25.0ast%/9.5to%
Barrett (25): 15gms, 31.7mpg, 19.3pts, 59.5ts%, 23.5usg%, 17.8ast%/8.3to%

Lowry (31): 78gms, 32.2mpg, 16.2pts, 59.8ts%, 21.7usg%, 30.9ast%/14.7to%
Quickley (26): 15gms, 31.8mpg, 15.9pts, 59.5ts%, 20.0usg%, 25.7ast%/11.5to%


Poeltl (22): 82gms, 18.6mpg, 6.9pts, 66.2ts%, 14.8usg%, 5.4ast%/16.6to%
Mamu (26): 14gms, 17.6mpg, 9.2pts, 68.8ts%, 18.1usg%, 14.3ast%/11.3to%

OG (20): 74gms, 20.0mpg, 5.9pts, 58.7ts%, 12.4usg%, 5.0ast%/10.8to%
CMB (20): 11gms, 20.0mpg, 8.5pts, 60.2ts%, 17.1usg%, 7.7ast%/13.4to%

Miles (30): 70gms, 19.1mpg, 10.0pts. 54.5ts%, 22.3usg%, 6.0ast%/5.7to%
Dick (22): 15gms, 16.6mpg, 7.5pts, 58.7ts%, 17.0usg%, 4.7ast%/5.0to%

Wright (25): 69gms, 20.8mpg, 8.0pts, 57.4ts%, 17.2usg%, 19.6ast%/13.9to%
Walter (21): 12gms, 11.5mpg, 3.6pts, 55.0ts%, 15.0usg%, 6.2ast%/20.4to%

VanVleet (23): 76gms, 20.0mpg, 8.6pts, 55.6ts%, 19.1usg%, 22.8ast%/11.2to%
Shead (23): 15gms, 18.2mpg, 5.8pts, 56.5ts%, 14.9usg%, 34.2ast%, 19.8to%


Powell (24): 70gms, 15.2mg, 5.5pts, 29.2ts%, 18.9usg%, 11.8ast%/14.4to%
Agbaji (25): 9gms, 13.9mpg, 2.7pts, 42.1ts%, 10.7usg%, 5.7ast%/9.5to%

Bebe (25): 49gms, 8.5mpg, 2.5pts, 66.1ts%, 11.4usg%, 7.2ast%/14.8to%
Battle (24): 11gms, 7.0mpg, 3.9pts, 89.6ts%, 15.4usg%, 3.6ast%/14.3to%

[everdiso]

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

Barnes 24 --- Lowry 27
Ingram 28 --- Gay 27 / PPat 24
Barrett 25 --- Demar 24
Quickley 26 - Amir 26
Poeltl 30 ---- Jonas 21

Mamu 26 ---- Hayes 30
CMB 20 ------ Hansbrough 28
Dick 22 ------ Ross 22
Walter 21 --- Salmons 34
Shead 23 ---- Vazquez 27

Agbaji 25 --- Fields 25
Mogbo 24 --- Acy 23/Novak 30

The starters on that 2014 team were JV/Amir/DD/Ross/Lowry, with PPat, Greivis and Salmons rounding out the top 8.

After Gay/Acy were traded at the ~20gm mark for PPat/Grievis, yeah.

[YogurtProducer]

13/14 team vs 25/26 team


OFF rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 7th

DEF rating:
13/14: 10th
25/26: 15th

NET rating
13/14: 9th
25/26: 9th

10-5 is better than 5-10. But I will say the core starters of that 2014 were 2-3 years younger than today's squad on average. On the other hand, Barnes could become the best player among that list.

Lowry - 27
Amir - 26
Demar - 24
Ross - 22
JV - 21
Key bench; Salmons - 34, Hansbrough - 28, Vasquez - 27, PatPat - 24

Poeltl - 30
Ingram - 28
IQ - 26
RJ - 25
Barnes - 25
Key bench; Mamu - 26, Shead - 23, Dick - 22, Walter - 21, CMB - 20

So yes, while what you said is true, it is only because this team is deeper overall, and all our former lottery picks are coming off the bench rather than starting. CMB and Dick were pick #9 & #13, whereas Ross and JV were 5 & 8 respectively, and I know this has the benefit of hindsight, but Dick/CMB imo have much higher ceilings than JV/Ross ended up.

Our secondary youth is also miles better. Shead/Walter/Battle are actual interersting prospects. The 2014 team had nothing in terms of youth on the bench.

[YogurtProducer]

but i think this team is much better than that 13-14 team anyways.

That team did win 48 games. So we should maybe let things play out a bit first

But I am on the edge of somewhat agreeing. Looking at that 2014 roster I have no clue how we won 48 games.