Siegel: Toronto trade intel

[ArthurVandelay]

Warriors would make an interesting 3rd team with Kings and Raptors.

Kings want Kuminga. Warriors need a C (Poeltl) and perimeter D (Ellis).

[Badonkadonk]

Sabonis makes no sense for this team with Barnes and BI

Sabonis is Jak with less defense, but way better offense (shooting, back to the basket game) and rebounding. If you think the raps are amazing with 25 min of Jak, imagine 32 min of Sabonis.

Offense is zero-sum game. It doesn't matter if Sabonis is better than Yak offensively if he's taking shots away from BI or Scottie, and he's only ever been a high-usage 5 who scores so he'd demand more touches than Yak ever did. Bad fit.

Also if you assume Yak can come back healthy, and there's no reason to believe he can't right now, people are WAY underestimating his value defensively. Also keep in mind he's been among the league leaders in FG% for a few years, so you need to be particularly careful about how you replace him and how those skills complement the roster.

I don't want to go back to the days of BC collecting ill-fitting assets.

[Raptorfan2012]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

Yeah this is fine for me too. Consolidate our assets. I am not down on Sabonis as much as others here on this board. Jak's defense hasn't exactly been great for us this year with his back.

[mdenny]

Ive seen a few posters mentioning Garland as a possible target so i went and did some reading.

Apparently cleveland is having trouble with the chemistry between garland and Mitchell and many believe this to be the main reason why they are strugglimg so much.

Perhaps IQ could serve as a better fit beside Mitchell? And Garland a better fit with us?

Garland makes an extra 8 to 10 milly per year. So neither of them have what can be called "good" contracts.

How much more would we have to add to IQ to get Garland back? Does anyone think IQ/dick/2 SRPs could get it done?

Maybe we can hope that things continue to falter in cleveland. But it DOES look like swapping those two could be mutually beneficial. It's hust that Garland is a better player so how much more would we have to offer?

[bboyskinnylegs]

Ive seen a few posters mentioning Garland as a possible target so i went and did some reading.

Apparently cleveland is having trouble with the chemistry between garland and Mitchell and many believe this to be the main reason why they are strugglimg so much.

Perhaps IQ could serve as a better fit beside Mitchell? And Garland a better fit with us?

Garland makes an extra 8 to 10 milly per year. So neither of them have what can be called "good" contracts.

How much more would we have to add to IQ to get Garland back? Does anyone think IQ/dick/2 SRPs could get it done?

Maybe we can hope that things continue to falter in cleveland. But it DOES look like swapping those two could be mutually beneficial. It's hust that Garland is a better player so how much more would we have to offer?

I'm hoping something like that can get it done. I'd offer a first round swap for the 2026 pick they own (currently the Spurs pick at 28). Garland is the guy that I think that would fit perfectly here. He gives you the elite playmaking and ability to get into the paint and create easy looks that we need, *without* losing the perimeter shooting that we rely on IQ for. I think that IQ could actually help the Cavs a bit. It seems kind of inevitable they need to bring their league-leading salary down, and a shakeup is in order with them underperforming so far. He helps improves their defense a bit, and is a more natural fit as the non-primary ballhandler next to a star like Mitchell. And the counting stats between the two are similar this year, making it a more palatable swap.

Garland/Shead
RJ/Ja'Kobe
BI/Battle
Scottie/Mamu
Yak/CMB

[TGM]

3 way with GS does make a lot of sense for Sacramento especially with the emergence of Raynaud at C for the Kings.

Would prefer to keep RJ out of the deal and ideally resign him as our long term shooting guard.

IQ Jak, Dick, Mogbo, Ochai and 1 protected first for

Monk, Sabonis,Ellis and Cardwell

Kings get

IQ, Kuminga, Dick, Ochai and 1 protected first from Toronto, 2 2nds from GS.

Warriors get

Jakob and Mogbo.

Raps new line-up

Monk - Shead - Carter
RJ- Walter -Temple
Ingram - Ellis - Battle
Barnes - CMB
Sabonis - Mamu- Cardwell

[MoneyBall]

Keon Ellis would be nice

Yes, I like him a lot. Very underrated imo.

[canada_dry]

Sabonis makes no sense for this team with Barnes and BI

Sabonis is Jak with less defense, but way better offense (shooting, back to the basket game) and rebounding. If you think the raps are amazing with 25 min of Jak, imagine 32 min of Sabonis.

Jak with less defense and way better offense can't be Jak. Theres no comp there.

[Zeno]

Keon Ellis would be nice

Yes, I like him a lot. Very underrated imo.

The problem with Keon Ellis is the cost to resign him. Right now we got only around 11 million to pay Mamu with the MLE under the tax line for next season. So if you want to pay Ellis too, you are likely going into the tax unless you free up additional salary owed next year going out.

[Saul Goodman]

I would do


Sabonis
Monk

For

Poetl
Quickley
Gradey dick
2026 1st top 15 protected


Sabonis/barnes/ingram/barrett/shead

Monk/walter/mamu/cmb



If everyone can fit that’s a lot of talent and playmaking

[mdenny]

Ive seen a few posters mentioning Garland as a possible target so i went and did some reading.

Apparently cleveland is having trouble with the chemistry between garland and Mitchell and many believe this to be the main reason why they are strugglimg so much.

Perhaps IQ could serve as a better fit beside Mitchell? And Garland a better fit with us?

Garland makes an extra 8 to 10 milly per year. So neither of them have what can be called "good" contracts.

How much more would we have to add to IQ to get Garland back? Does anyone think IQ/dick/2 SRPs could get it done?

Maybe we can hope that things continue to falter in cleveland. But it DOES look like swapping those two could be mutually beneficial. It's hust that Garland is a better player so how much more would we have to offer?

I'm hoping something like that can get it done. I'd offer a first round swap for the 2026 pick they own (currently the Spurs pick at 28). Garland is the guy that I think that would fit perfectly here. He gives you the elite playmaking and ability to get into the paint and create easy looks that we need, *without* losing the perimeter shooting that we rely on IQ for. I think that IQ could actually help the Cavs a bit. It seems kind of inevitable they need to bring their league-leading salary down, and a shakeup is in order with them underperforming so far. He helps improves their defense a bit, and is a more natural fit as the non-primary ballhandler next to a star like Mitchell. And the counting stats between the two are similar this year, making it a more palatable swap.

Garland/Shead
RJ/Ja'Kobe
BI/Battle
Scottie/Mamu
Yak/CMB

I didn't know they had the spurs pick.

i was also thinking that Ochai would be a more valuable piece for them gradey. They are in cap hell plus they need a defensive bench guards (they already have Strus). So they can use Ochai a little bit this season for defense in their backcourt and they get to wipe his 6.3 million off their books next season. Then they save 10 million replacing garland with IQ.

So that's a total of 16.3 million off their books next season with this trade. That actually gets them close to ducking the second apron next season (16.3 combined with 10 million more by opting out the ball contract). Havent done the exact numbers....but pretty sure they'd only be a few million over the 208 threshold for 2nd apron - a threshold that it also projected to go higher yah?

And my initial suggestion was probably too optimistic in basketball terms. So your pick swap sounds right (something like the 18th pick for the 28th).

IQ
Ochai
Pick swap
2 SRPs

Might still not be quite enough but closer. Still probably not very realistic unless things go VERY BAD im cleveland over the next 3 weeks. There ARE multiple Bulls beat articles questioning the chemistry between Garland amd Mitchell though.

[YogurtProducer]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

Horrible.

Why do we do this? We want to take a top 5 defence and just open up 2 targets for opponents to attack?

I don't think the defense suffers. Sabonis is an elite rebounder (way better than Jak) and rebounds stop possessions or gain new ones. Jak is a great defender but he's also looking like he's damaged goods. He plays even less than Anthony Davis does. No joke.

You surround Sabonis with Scottie or CMB and the defense will be fine.

Besides last year Sabonis played on some elite defensive lineups. Including one with Monk. Those two with DeMar, Ellis and Murray had a DRTG of 102.2 in 201 minutes. And a NRTG over 17. And yes that included DeMar in that lineup.

I think the best thing is that it will raise our offense's ceiling. Sabonis can get easy buckets, right at the rim. He's got a corner 3 as well that can open things up.. and is one of the best screen setters in the game opening up the court for guys like RJ and Scottie when they have the ball.

He's also durable. Played all 82 games a couple of seasons back. Availability is very important to me.

When you replace above average defenders at the 1 and 5 with below average ones, the defence suffers

[RoteSchroder]

after reading opinions from SAC fans, not sure I really want Sabonis anymore

Ideally, I'm looking for a defensive C to achieve goat-level defense + a dynamic guard to open up the offense

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I simply don't like Sabonis' game. Having him and Jak on the roster at the same time is also highly unappealing to me.

isn't Jak going the other way? with one of RJ or IQ?

[Spates]

after reading opinions from SAC fans, not sure I really want Sabonis anymore

Ideally, I'm looking for a defensive C to achieve goat-level defense + a dynamic guard to open up the offense

Where are the Sac fans at?

[RoteSchroder]

after reading opinions from SAC fans, not sure I really want Sabonis anymore

Ideally, I'm looking for a defensive C to achieve goat-level defense + a dynamic guard to open up the offense

Where are the Sac fans at?

was reading reddit

[ForeverTFC]

Man just go get Lamelo.

[Merit]

I was just thinking about this trade on a smaller scale. I'm not really interested in Sabonis, but Monk and Ellis would help fill a couple of needs (reliable bench scoring, ducking the luxury tax).

Quickley + LA 2nd (57) for Monk + Ellis + Saric + SAC 2nd (33)

SAC:
-Gets the best overall player in the deal.
-Still young (26)
-Locked up for 4 years.

TOR:
-Fills 2 needs for 1.
*A reliable bench scorer (Monk)
*A "PG" who can play off the ball, and both shoots and defends (Ellis).
-Drops 6 million immediately from the payroll (26 million vs 32 million)
-An additional 5.4 million in cap space on Saric's expiring.
-A higher 2nd rounder in a strong draft.

In the AD thread earlier today when I brought up an IQ for Monk base swap as a possibility, I was about to add on to that post with a Fanspo trade machine outline, and I was going to use Saric+Carter as the additional salary filler required from the Kings, but you pretty much read my mind (except Ellis instead of Carter). I think this is sneakily a pretty realistic possible Plan B assuming the Hawks land AD instead of the Raptors.

IQ+RJ for Sabonis+Monk was also a possibility I thought about because of the Raptors links to him, but I personally don't want Sabonis so I didn't want to speak it into existence by throwing that 2 for 2 out there lol. Siegel throwing it out as a 2 for 3 with Keon Ellis also being part of it is pretty interesting though.

Trading RJ would be a grand mistake

Agreed 100%. He’s our new Demar. Zero reason to move him.

[hype_2004]

Everyone saying Sabonis but watch us get Davis

[Merit]

This is a trade I can live with:



(fails because Jak can't be traded until tomorrow)


Gets both teams below the tax as well.

If we trade for Sabonis, Jak will have to go back. Otherwise we'd be including both RJ and IQ and that's a non starter for me. Trading IQ and bringing back Monk gives us a point man. I'd probably start Shead and move Monk to the bench.

I wouldn’t do it. You’re wildly underrating Jak. We would be back at square one with zero size and zero paint intimidation. Jak is needed on this team.