Ja/AD ≠ BI. Much riskier and worse value

[tsherkin]

If Ja / AD are healthy, yes that's an upgrade at both positions.

Right, but they never are.

Playoff series' are funny. You need as many difference makers as possible. A healthy AD next to Barnes, BI, CMB would be a nightmare.

Sure, but he's a myth at this point, that's the whole problem.

[NinjaBro]

No to AD, no to Ja, no to Lamelo, no to Kuminga. No to trash that teams are trying to unload.

[WuTang_CMB]

If Ja / AD are healthy, yes that's an upgrade at both positions.

Right, but they never are.

Playoff series' are funny. You need as many difference makers as possible. A healthy AD next to Barnes, BI, CMB would be a nightmare.

Sure, but he's a myth at this point, that's the whole problem.

That's why the acquisition cost is so low. There's risk for sure but Bobby is definitely doing it

[PushDaRock]

2nd round fodder while we still have all our picks is not a bad situation to be in at all

[grant101]

AD is being wildly undervalued here and I remember hearing very similar injury concerns when it came to BI. He's an amazing fit next to Scottie & BI (Ja, I'm less thrilled about) and would make this team a very tough out this Spring. That said, AD is old and there's the downside risk that the injury is worse than everyone is saying and he picks up his option for next year becoming essentially dead weight. I don't think this is the case, but it's a risk.

I think the move makes sense if it also becomes a vehicle to get off of bad long-term money sooner, That is, if we can get off of Poeltl's contract and don't include too much draft compensation. If the other piece is RJ, then I'd be ok with adding a second rounder or two, and if it's with Quick, I'd consider a top-4 protected 2027 (crappy draft year anyways). If it's not one of those, I'd prefer we do nothing and revisit trading Poeltl/IQ this Summer.

[mihaic]

No to AD, no to Ja, no to Lamelo, no to Kuminga. No to trash that teams are trying to unload.

You should not put Kuminga In the same sentence as the other 3 there.

Personally I don't want AD cause he's really cooked healthwise, and old for a Center (and he doesn'twant to play Center anyways).
I am also not interested in Sabonis, he is overpaid.


Ja and LaMelo are approaching their prime, I'd be happy to go for either, as long as it's for IQ as main piece, one or two redundant SG prospects (out of Ochai, Dick, Walter), and at most a non lottery pick. The cost in such case is very low, and it allows us to dump one bad contract.

[RaptorPride]

We don't have a starting PG and we don't have a starting C with the skills AD has....

Both solve holes on the team if you can buy low....

AD Has some stretch big in him + one of the best rim protectors in the game thats something we would need badly.

Morant is a much better floor general than IQ is and just has a better ceiling if a change of teams brings out the old Morant.

Since both trades are for literally minimal assets to me its worth the risk....IQ/Yak and even RJs futures with the Raptors are not cemented....RJ might be hard to pay when hes a free agent, IQ/Yak are contracts you are looking to get off rather than keep....

Unless you are high on Dick or the potential FRPs that will end up being in the 20s most likely anyways i don't think people should be too upset if Bobby goes for it....If you are not a team getting a high draft pick, And you are not a team that is at least a contender or in the mix....What are you really doing? And if you can add a player that raises the ceiling of the team for a low cost why not take the gamble?

biggest issue is i don't see AD wanting to play center

We have enough guys around him that do the dirty work for him like Barnes/CMB/Shead.....With Barnes on our team at PF he has no option but to play C....Most teams hes been on though have not had "dogs" on the team along side him like we have....The last time he had that he won the title with the Lakers.

I just don't want him to play center because of the injuries. CMB,Manu and Scottie that's all you if we get AD.

[tsherkin]

That's why the acquisition cost is so low. There's risk for sure but Bobby is definitely doing it

There will be many "I told you sos" coming if he does, for sure.

[iBall101]

I would hope the real target is Lamelo or Domantas.
Team chemistry becomes an underrated factor especially when April arrives

[RaptorPride]

I say **** it if we are going for AD go get Ja or LeMelo as well. Go all in for the next two years just don't give up BI and Scottie. And the only draft picks we should trade if we have to are 2026 and 2027. If it fails just try and rebuild starting in 2028.

Most people don't look at our team and think contender already. None of our young guys look like future superstars and BI is probably at his best already.

[JB7]

I actually think Ja is less risky than AD.

It has already been stated that AD is looking for an extension. So for him, this is about money. And for an injury prone player like him, this has 'deadweight' contract written all over it. Think Embiid's last extension.

For Ja, I think he has just turned on Memphis, and wants out. No talk of extension, and I doubt he even would want to stay in Toronto long term. So really, it is a short term stay (rest of this season and next) and then he is probably starting to look at his next destination. Raps get him when he'll be highly motivated to perform, and probably his last good/great years. I see this as a VC situation. Except in Ja's case, this has extended over a few years because of all the controversies.

[pingpongrac]

Now we are seeing IQ + Yak + RJ + first round picks

This makes the trade absolutely nothing like the BI trade or the Trae trade. It's nothing like the Kawhi trade either.

You don't think that a IQ+Yak+1st for AD has, like, a ridiculous amount of similarity to our Kawhi trade?

Absolutely not. While Kawhi was also a serious risk (only played 9 games the season before and seemingly had an unwillingness to be anywhere but LA), he was still in his prime whereas AD's numbers have been trending down (lowest BLK% of his career, lowest PTS per36 since his 2nd season, 3rd lowest STL% of his career, etc.) and he's about to turn 33. This isn't the AD of the late 2010s that was still a top 10ish player and MVP candidate. We'd obviously still be getting a very good player with likely an all-star impact, but there is a big gap from a top 3-5 player (which Kawhi consistently was when he was healthy in the late 2010s) and a top 25ish player (which AD has been the past few seasons when healthy).

[Clutch0z24]

[
To me it feels like you are over dramatically downplaying AD/Morants potential talents

That'd mean you're not listening, at least with respect to AD. If he's healthy, he's very good. Not enough to get us out of the conference and certainly not enough to win a title as the focal guy, but he's very good. Unfortunately, he's brittle as hell, in his 30s and a big man who isn't a take-over scorer. That just is what it is.

With Ja? He has a single season in his entire career managing league-average efficiency or better, and it was only 57 games long. He has NEVER played more than 67 games in a season. He is a weak shooter, a small guard who thrives slashing into the lane and drawing contact, which is an archetype which does not age well. He has also been pretty bad in the playoffs in 2 out of his 3 appearances.

So no, I don't really think I'm downplaying him either. He addresses our need for someone who can get into the lane, but he isn't a good option as a volume scorer, never has been. And we'll be giving up at least one of the guys we'd need to be on the team to benefit from what he does.

Ja is a bad choice. He's the worst of the two choices, actually. I'd be far more upset if we traded for him than if we did for AD.

I do agree either player are risks....But thats the reality of trying to play the middle and make trades to become better....You are most likely trading for a flawed star....Because the actual top 5 type players usually end up on the team they desire to play for which Toronto is at a disadvantage....

Guys like AD/Morant/Sabonis are the type of guys you are trading for in the open market....Reality is Giannis type players are not being traded to you...And if he is you are not getting him for any of the player mentioned in the AD/Morant trades anyways and it most likely would require trading Barnes...

So yes i do agree injury risk is high but keeping the core of RJ/Ingram/Barnes/CMB with mediocre bench players is also not going anywhere and also health has not been on the good side with RJ/Yak/IQ as well....

[tsherkin]

I do agree either player are risks....But thats the reality of trying to play the middle and make trades to become better....You are most likely trading for a flawed star....Because the actual top 5 type players usually end up on the team they desire to play for which Toronto is at a disadvantage....

That's one route we could take. The other route involves more patience and better asset management.

So yes i do agree injury risk is high but keeping the core of RJ/Ingram/Barnes/CMB with mediocre bench players is also not going anywhere and also health has not been on the good side with RJ/Yak/IQ as well....

Yeah, we certainly have changes to make. I just don't think these two players are our best choices. Selling out for a year or two of potentially having a series victory or two really isn't the thing. We need to build up assets and talent and try to grow over time like we did ahead of the title.

[Clutch0z24]

I do agree either player are risks....But thats the reality of trying to play the middle and make trades to become better....You are most likely trading for a flawed star....Because the actual top 5 type players usually end up on the team they desire to play for which Toronto is at a disadvantage....

That's one route we could take. The other route involves more patience and better asset management.

So yes i do agree injury risk is high but keeping the core of RJ/Ingram/Barnes/CMB with mediocre bench players is also not going anywhere and also health has not been on the good side with RJ/Yak/IQ as well....

Yeah, we certainly have changes to make. I just don't think these two players are our best choices. Selling out for a year or two of potentially having a series victory or two really isn't the thing. We need to build up assets and talent and try to grow over time like we did ahead of the title.

While i agree building up the asset base would be a smart move....Its just you are asking such a hard task from Bobby/Scouts to do when you have expectations of the assets you are bringing in....You are asking them to find Gems in the mid 20s, late 20s in the drafts....The reality is the chances of you finding OG/Siakam/Powell types that deep into the draft....Prolly a lower chance than winning a title with AD....

In order for that strat to work we would need high end draft picks like Barnes/CMB for example both High lotto picks at 4-9.....Thats where you can really build up a strong asset base from because making the right selection in these parts of the draft are a way more better result....You are likely going to draft Jokobe/Mogbo level players late in the draft than you would a Siakam/OG....

So building up an asset base of players that don't hold much value on the trade market does not hold much weight to me...

We are more so going to target the Ingram type deals where we buy low on distressed assets and hope it pans out for us.

[LoganAndWade]

Bobby is an idiot if he trades for any of these guys, oh how we miss Masai already smh

U miss Masai , and shaking your head .. over imaginary "bad" trades that haven't happened ..

Ok

[DreamTeam09]

Bobby is an idiot if he trades for any of these guys, oh how we miss Masai already smh

U miss Masai, and shaking your head .. over imaginary "bad" trades that haven't happened ..

Ok

These should've been out to rest a long time ago, but you're right I am being dramatic

[tsherkin]

While i agree building up the asset base would be a smart move....Its just you are asking such a hard task from Bobby/Scouts to do when you have expectations of the assets you are bringing in....

No, I'm just advocating for patience instead of short-sighted trades. We already have too much in the way of injury risk on the team that we can't handle losing. Adding more, especially someone as dim as Ja and what-not, it just isn't really worth it IMHO.

We are more so going to target the Ingram type deals where we buy low on distressed assets and hope it pans out for us.

To a point. You load up on too many of those guys, you're gonna have 36-win seasons anyway.

[Clutch0z24]

2nd round fodder while we still have all our picks is not a bad situation to be in at all

We are not giving up the kind of draft capital you are thinking we are giving up....This is not a 4 FRP type move....Morant will be lucky to get 1 FRP it sounds like and for AD we are bidding against the Hawks....

Only reason we would even need to give up a FRP for Morant would be because IQ/Yaks contracts are so bad that no teams will touch them unless they are compensated for it...

Giving up 1 FRP in lets say 2027 if it has even top 7 protection or top 5 protection is worth it since that pick most likely ends up in the 20s anyways.

[Johnston]

If we trade for Ja, it's because he's Darkos boy and he has vouched for him. I'm fine rolling the dice on an upgrade and taking a bit of a risk.