Im just gonna say it...Raptors look better with Calderon

[Meursault]

Alberto P. Calder

[Magic All The Way]

What a blessing for us to have team that can go 13-9 without our starting point guard, and in a tough stretch of games as well.

[PharoaheMonch]

...without tipping my hat as to whom I think is the better PG for the Raptors, I believe it is not neccessarily better to have two PG's whom are capable of starting than having just one, with a capable backup. Point guards usually like to log big minutes in order to establish to establish and maintain a rhythm and cohesiveness with their teamates on the floor. TJ and Joses games are so different, that everytime you sub one for the other everyone is forced to readjust their games also. This makes it harder for the Raps to find and maintain, not only a rhythm, but a consistent team identity. Rather than have one of the leagues elite PG's and a physical asset sit on the bench for half of every game - why wouldn't you package one of them in a trade for a SG/SF that can log heavy minutes and be effective. As a backup PG, all you need is someone who can come in for a few minutes to give your starter a blow, maintain the status quo and not make any mistakes (like heaving up long jumpers a.k.a. D. Martin). Cooangelo can keep whichever guy he wants but to keep both is not efficient asset wise, not fair to either PG, and not conducive to establishing a team identity... by the way Jose is a much better choice to keep - just thought I'd say.

Yeah, just thought you'd say eh? Mr 3 posts. You think your post holds any weight on this forum? We all know who this is bro.

[kingr]

Word, I agree with Centre Court... There are so many fast break oppurtunities that Hose passes up. I know not all of them are perfect oppurtunities, but give it a chance... You might get fouled.

By Hose, tryin' not to turn the ball over, he's seeming a bit mechanical.
You just got to take the good with the bad.

[daswunderboy]

TJ is more valuable to us. Honestly, we can't win a playoff series with Calderon as our starter unless our shooters are on fire for the entire series. With him, we are Bosh +4 jump shooters, and we become extremely easy to defend.

[dirtybird]

I think that they look better with a good backup PG. I've said this before, the minutes should be divided between matchup and who is playing well.

[SMG]

im sure this thread will stir up alot of "Jose vs TJ" rants, but that's honestly not my intent....

It's just, with Jose running the show the team seems to operate more smoothly and Consistently, does anyone notice that? it's like you always know you're getting a solid PG type performance from Jose everynight (ast/TO ratio, smart with the ball, crafty, takes what's there, doesn't force it) where as TJ can be so erratic some nights you have no idea what to expect. does anyone get what I'm trying to convey?

Who cares. Thats exactly what this thread is. We've gone over this like a thousand times.

[Nia]

Why isn't this thread LOCKED yet?

[cage]

before tj's injury i wouldn't have objected to trading jose. but not now. i would rather have both.

unless tj can pull off a 'freaky friday' with someone with a more durable body

[Tha Cynic]

lol...............

Let's not get carried away here. Just because the op is ignorant, doesn't mean you need to add to it.

Personally I think Calderon's game will fail in the playoffs when teams play shutdown defense. When our jumpshooters are covered, we're going to be screwed, if he's starting. We're also going to get abused by opposing PG's on dribble penetration. Expect a lot of wide open 3's against us. Leo said something that I believe is true. Calderon is defining himself based on the "assist to turnover" ratio. While protecting the ball is great, it's also going to lead to a lot missed opportunities, because that perfect play isn't always going to be there.

[kmatrixg]

IF by consistency you mean 90 PPG over the last 5 or 6, then yeah, hes pretty consistent. He lacks the explosiveness that gets runs going. Why do you think Whenever Juan Dixon is in the game the Raptors pull out on a 6-8 point run? He's not afraid to push the ball. Jose doesn't make mistakes, great. But when your defense can barely contain the opposition, its pretty pointless to have a stagnant offense. Great thread man.

[Tha Cynic]

This team we're watching right now is a very, very boring team. We're nothing like we were last season. I feel no excitement anymore. There's hardly anything that gets the team or fans fired up. We go down, throw up a jumpshot and rush back on defense. It's no surprise we're just hovering around the .500 mark.

Jose's a quality PG, but he's not an impact player. On a team that really has no intense players, we need TJ. Jose's more suited for a team that requires minimum PG impact. He can easily rack up his assists, and knock down the open jumpshot, while the rest of the team does all the work.

[CalderonFTW]

-= original quote snipped =-



Personally I think Calderon's game will fail in the playoffs when teams play shutdown defense.

Don't get me wrong. I love having both guys on this team.

But it is ridiculous how first bashers were saying Jose can't perform against good teams. And now that we beat San An and New Orleans they come out and say he will fail in playoffs. Did we not like what he provided us against NJ last year. How much can you ask for?! Really?!

Just say we are blessed to have two great PG on the same team and allow this discussion die right here and right now.

Thank you.

[PharoaheMonch]

[quote="Tha Cynic"]This team we're watching right now is a very, very boring team. We're nothing like we were last season. I feel no excitement anymore. There's hardly anything that gets the team or fans fired up. We go down, throw up a jumpshot and rush back on defense. It's no surprise we're just hovering around the .500 mark.

Jose's a quality PG, but he's not an impact player. On a team that really has no intense players, we need TJ. Jose's more suited for a team that requires minimum PG impact. He can easily rack up his assists, and knock down the open jumpshot, while the rest of the team does all the work.[/quote]

Bingo, hit the nail right on the head. TJ is a true creator and extremely versatile on offense, he can create plays from nothing. This is why I'd always shake my head when fools would say TJ lacks court vision. TJ has the best court vision on our team, bar none. He is finishing at a high rate these days too with the shot.

Jose's game is best suited to that of a great distributor. He can move it around the perimeter and find the open guy. If you're a fan of the NBA as a whole, you should know that hot potato basketball can only get you so far.

[Theta64]

im sure this thread will stir up alot of "Jose vs TJ" rants, but that's honestly not my intent....

It's just, with Jose running the show the team seems to operate more smoothly and Consistently, does anyone notice that? it's like you always know you're getting a solid PG type performance from Jose everynight (ast/TO ratio, smart with the ball, crafty, takes what's there, doesn't force it) where as TJ can be so erratic some nights you have no idea what to expect. does anyone get what I'm trying to convey?

Jose takes way less risks then TJ and thats why his play is much more "consistent". I hate how sometimes Jose stops the ball on a potential fast break and waits for his teammates to arrive instead of attacking the basket. TJ penetrates and scores way more than Jose, and is a much more intelligent, and craftier defender than Jose, even though he's 3 inches shorter.

By the way, "nivisi9" your a duchebag for starting the TJ vs Jose nonsense again. Why don't the Mods just delete these threads, I don't even want to see them, and I'm sure I speak for a lot of people here.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



Personally I think Calderon's game will fail in the playoffs when teams play shutdown defense. When our jumpshooters are covered, we're going to be screwed, if he's starting. We're also going to get abused by opposing PG's on dribble penetration. Expect a lot of wide open 3's against us. Leo said something that I believe is true. Calderon is defining himself based on the "assist to turnover" ratio. While protecting the ball is great, it's also going to lead to a lot missed opportunities, because that perfect play isn't always going to be there.

We haven't even seen enough of TJ playing without Jose. We have only seen a lot of Jose playing without TJ. Perhaps TJ wouldn't do any better without Jose? We don't know.

All we know at this point in time is that both pgs are needed to have any chance of going deep into the playoffs. 1 year of playoff experience helps too.

[PharoaheMonch]

-= original quote snipped =-



We haven't even seen enough of TJ playing without Jose. We have only seen a lot of Jose playing without TJ. Perhaps TJ wouldn't do any better without Jose? We don't know.

All we know at this point in time is that both pgs are needed to have any chance of going deep into the playoffs. 1 year of playoff experience helps too.

TJ in 35 minutes would be considered an All Star PG in the East. No question about it.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



Don't get me wrong. I love having both guys on this team.

But it is ridiculous how first bashers were saying Jose can't perform against good teams. And now that we beat San An and New Orleans they come out and say he will fail in playoffs. Did we not like what he provided us against NJ last year. How much can you ask for?! Really?!

Just say we are blessed to have two great PG on the same team and allow this discussion die right here and right now.

Thank you.

People have made a lot of observations and conclusions on Jose based on the 7 game road trip. You have to admit that road games (especially trips) are going to be tougher than home games. Lets see what Jose does in January with all those home games, if they can hold home court.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



TJ in 35 minutes would be considered an All Star PG in the East. No question about it.

There is no evidence to back that up. Until we see TJ perform enough without Jose, we really wouldn't know TJ's endurance or quality of play with heavy minutes. But most importantly, not the individual numbers, but the teams wins and losses.

We have seen Jose play alot without TJ, but not so much TJ playing without Jose. We can observe that Jose is decent enough playing without Jose. If Jose ever goes down and TJ is healthy, then we can observe TJ's side of the story.

Edit: It also doesn't help by having liability back ups like D-mart and Juan Dixon behind you.

[RapsBulls4evr]

Lol, another Jose vs TJ comparison? This is really not a good time as we can ALL concur that we need both. Who YOU think is better is just your own personal opinion and a sense of style of who's play you prefer... such comparisons will just lead to long and endless debates/arguing.