The real reasons we lost last night

[18 Parkerville]

I really miss TJ Ford.

Anyone that thinks Calderon is the superior starter for this team needs to get their head examined.

Jose is awesome as a backup off the bench, don't get me wrong...but his defense and inability to run a fast-break are hurting the team. Those are serious deficiencies in a starting PG for a team hoping to be a contender.

[KrazyP]

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Listen jerkoff, there weren't two people on this board who wanted Roy at #1. He's exceeded expectations. So don't be hypocritical about this. You wouldn't have had the stones to advocate drafting Roy #1 either. That doesn't mean the guys who went ahead of him aren't going to be good players or stars either. Vince was ROY in 1998 and a sensation in his second and third seasons but is he the best in his class today?

And to continue with your momentum, how did the careers of Damon Stoudamire, Joe Smith, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephen Marbury, Steven Francis, Keith Van Horn, etc all end up? These guys were all destined to be perenial all-stars after their first couple of years in the league. What happenned?

People have been highly critical of Colangelo's "wait 5-yrs to evaluate the draft" comment but I tend to agree with him. Looking back at past drafts, theres a boatload of players that started off great but became mediocre later on their careers. On the flipside, theres a lot of players who started off poorly but became outstanding as they aged.....heck, the guy who torched us last night is a prime example! Chauncey Billups was utter trash in his first few years.

[pharring]

We're damned if we do, damned if we don't at the wings.

Jamario is our best perimeter defender (and often our second best rebounder), but is a liability on offense because teams can sag off of him, thus crowding the middle and gobbling up offensive rebounds. To address this, we can bring in Kapono off the bench, but he's such a liability on defense, we suffer even more. Jarvis Hayes lit up Kapono.

AP is supposed to provide us consistency at the wing position, but he's been slow to react on defense (and also very quick to complain about his fouls... not something he did last year) and has not be knocking down his usual corner jumper. And I am incredibly sick and tired of talking heads saying that he can't get his game off with Bargnani crowding the perimeter. That's ****. I'm fairly certain Dallas is getting production from their 2-guard spot in spite of Dirk.

I think we should give Delfino some more burn. Yeah, he didn't bring it last night. I guess the Piston uniform is his kryponite. But he does slash, he does play defense, he does rebound and he can shoot. Right now, he's a better option.

I agree with dagger that we need to find a long-term solution at the 2/3. The pu-pu platter of AP, Delfino, Moon, Kapono and Dixon just isn't going to work against the likes of Pierce, Hamilton, Redd, etc.

[uniballer]

haha krazyp love the pic.. but the problem is that bargs isnt a center.. thats all im sayin and i should have said much smaller.. lol wallace toyed with him yesterday. didnt have a crazy game but am i the only one that noticed wallace laughin at bargs d?

well last time i checked Bargs made a fool of wallace (a very good defender) on the other end as well.

thing is your a fool or have not watched many games if you think bargs man to man defence is poor. Because he is one of the better 1-1 defenders on the team.

where he needs to improve is help defense and rebounding...


but to say that anyone can score blah blah blah and yesterday was a bad game by bargs is ludacris. He was the only reason we were close going into the 4th and the team failed to realize that and wanted to spread the scoring and look what happened fell behind 11 pts that wasnt bargs fault was it?

[jdford]

We lost last night because Bosh thinks he's a shooting guard.

I've never seen a "superstar" 4/5 been pushed around as much as Bosh. Even if he gets early position in the paint, as soon as he starts his move he IMMEDIATELY loses position and his shot turns into a fade.

I've really realized this year he's not that "franchise" player we believe he is. I think everyone gets blinded by his numbers, sure he had 23/16 but he shot 9 for 21. Had he taken it hard to the hoop with his supposed "quick first step" instead of settling for more jumpers than the wings were taking we may have had a chance in this game.

I was a huge Bosh fan at one point, but I honestly just don't like his game. He gets bullied by every opposing 4 he plays and it's disheartening to watch.

Granted we had a couple other factors working against us last night but I see Bosh as a major reason for our struggles this season.

[letsgofreeslice]

haha ANYONE CAN SCORE give them the chance i think luke jackson proved that last year he put up 30 points in a game? so what that **** dont matter.. and i never said bargs played liek **** yesterday he played good i love his passes hes the best passer we have besides ford and calderon.. im just sayin bargs is a wimp.. period.. and he didnt make a fool of wallace.. he was just feeling his shot.

[uniballer]

haha ANYONE CAN SCORE give them the chance i think luke jackson proved that last year he put up 30 points in a game? so what that **** dont matter.. and i never said bargs played liek **** yesterday he played good i love his passes hes the best passer we have besides ford and calderon.. im just sayin bargs is a wimp.. period.. and he didnt make a fool of wallace.. he was just feeling his shot.

i can recall 2 or 3 times where he left wallace standing flat footed on drives...

thats the thing you say he was feeling his shot, however he scored in so many ways yesterday making him effective.

[letsgofreeslice]

yea cause wallace expected bargs to get 2 quick offensive fouls and be out of the game lol but LIKE I SAID BARGS PLAYED WELL LASTNITE lol.. ppl need to listen.. all im sayin is bargs is a wimp.. period.. and yes i will say it again ANYONE CAN SCORE

[uniballer]

yea cause wallace expected bargs to get 2 quick offensive fouls and be out of the game lol but LIKE I SAID BARGS PLAYED WELL LASTNITE lol.. ppl need to listen.. all im sayin is bargs is a wimp.. period.. and yes i will say it again ANYONE CAN SCORE

so why were our gaurds so poo yesterday and why did they have such a hard time scoring?

[letsgofreeslice]

because like i said.. parker sucks.. and calderon i dont know why doest shoot.. he should just toss em up like ford.. get more shots in.. but hes too worried about givin away the ball..

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Has anyone said that Detroit is a better team? Because I think that had a lot to do with it.

[Stealth68]

Folks we got beat by a veteran team whose backcourt has been together since 2002, have had 50+ wins since that time and with the addition of Rasheed Wallace since 2004... has won a championship and has consistently been in the Eastern Conference Finals since 2002... Not to mention this team as a whole has been a consistent defensive juggernaut... The average NBA experience for the starting lineup is... 10.8 NBA seasons...

By contrast, our team learned to win last year... And our starting lineup and our bench for that matter has marginal experience in the NBA period... CB4 (5th yr), AP* (2nd yr), JMoon (0 yrs), Andrea (2nd yr), Calderon (3yrs) - When we go to the bench... Delfino** (4th yr), Humphries (4th yr), Kapono (5th yr), Dixon (6th yr) The average NBA experience for our starting lineup is... 2.4 NBA seasons...

Our Bench has more collective experience than the starters at an even 5 NBA seasons however most of those were on the bench with less than 15 mins average PT...

Bottomline on any given night this Young team can beat anyone they just have to bring the playoff intensity from the get go... TJ more than anyone brings that... Even Chauncey commented that the team is missing his fire more than anything. I don't like losing... Neither does this team but losing to a team like Detroit how they did will only make them better... I still look for 50+ wins from this team this year...

*AP did not play a full season worth of games collectively during his rookie years even though he was in the same draft as Chauncey Billups...

[El Presidente]

Has anyone said that Detroit is a better team? Because I think that had a lot to do with it.

That's a given and doesn't even need to be said. The focus should be more on what we could've done to stay in this game to give us a chance to win. I can't help but think if our bench and AP would've contributed (two big FTs miss in the fourth) and we had done a better job of helping Bosh out on the boards we would've had a chance to win. Plus, whenever CB4 starts settling for Js, it's usually suicide.

[RapsBulls4evr]

Good post dagger and CC.

[Stealth68]

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That's a given and doesn't even need to be said. The focus should be more on what we could've done to stay in this game to give us a chance to win. I can't help but think if our bench and AP would've contributed (two big FTs miss in the fourth) and we had done a better job of helping Bosh out on the boards we would've had a chance to win. Plus, whenever CB4 starts settling for Js, it's usually suicide.

+1

Experience is the best teacher... Bosh will eventually learn that he has to take it to the basket foul or no foul when the game is on the line. The bench and even AP's play (foul misses included) was effected by Detroit's physical defense. I mean TO is traditionally one of the best FT shooting teams and they shot a collective 63% yesterday... Detroit got into their heads...

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

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That's a given and doesn't even need to be said. The focus should be more on what we could've done to stay in this game to give us a chance to win. I can't help but think if our bench and AP would've contributed (two big FTs miss in the fourth) and we had done a better job of helping Bosh out on the boards we would've had a chance to win. Plus, whenever CB4 starts settling for Js, it's usually suicide.

can't argue with your points. they definitely would have given us a better chance. and on any given night we can beat anybody, or be beat by anybody, until as Bosh said, we get tougher and stronger, and like the Woodin pyramid that's been posted, gain poise and confidence. I was just giving the "Smitch" response. That being said, I don't mean to go too OT, and I'm glad there's not sticky threads calling for him to be fired this year, but Smitch does not bring to my mind poise and confidence, but has been great for the earlier blocks of wooden pyramid....

[magani]

Folks we got beat by a veteran team whose backcourt has been together since 2002, have had 50+ wins since that time and with the addition of Rasheed Wallace since 2004... has won a championship and has consistently been in the Eastern Conference Finals since 2002... Not to mention this team as a whole has been a consistent defensive juggernaut... The average NBA experience for the starting lineup is... 10.8 NBA seasons...

By contrast, our team learned to win last year... And our starting lineup and our bench for that matter has marginal experience in the NBA period... CB4 (5th yr), AP* (2nd yr), JMoon (0 yrs), Andrea (2nd yr), Calderon (3yrs) - When we go to the bench... Delfino** (4th yr), Humphries (4th yr), Kapono (5th yr), Dixon (6th yr) The average NBA experience for our starting lineup is... 2.4 NBA seasons...

Our Bench has more collective experience than the starters at an even 5 NBA seasons however most of those were on the bench with less than 15 mins average PT...

Bottomline on any given night this Young team can beat anyone they just have to bring the playoff intensity from the get go... TJ more than anyone brings that... Even Chauncey commented that the team is missing his fire more than anything. I don't like losing... Neither does this team but losing to a team like Detroit how they did will only make them better... I still look for 50+ wins from this team this year...

*AP did not play a full season worth of games collectively during his rookie years even though he was in the same draft as Chauncey Billups...

Good job all around on this thread. I like the post above because it does underscore our virtual inexperience agains teams like Boston and Detroit. However, I think the main points of what the OP stated need to be addressed if we don't want this inexperinece label to be turned into 'not-good-enough' in 2 or 3 years time. We do need a near all-star type 2 or 3 on this team. I like the suggestion of Jefferson from NJ. Who else could be made available? The question is does BC make that type of move now by trading in our depth with a package of a 3 for 1 or a 3-for 2 deal, or wait until the 09' offseason? I think that patience has to be exhibited because that's how many short-term fixes turn inti long-term cap and roster inflexibility. Our bigs will be fine with that growing experince of playing together. If it doesn't improve by 09' to the championship caliber standrads we want, then BC will have some decisions with Bosh and Bargs at hand for that Defensive interior presence. The PGs should be fine with Ford's return. But that sore spot with the SG/SF position is where we can package some depth for a quality starting guy. Maybe even give Graham a crack there one more time before he's totally shipped out. We don't realize the job that Garbo did there last year. He was never the longterm solution, but he was better than what we're getting there now.

[Rapcity_11]

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AMEN!

I don

[Anticon]

Bargs also returned the favour by toying with Rasheed on the other end of the floor. In fact, the only reason the game was even close after 3 quarters was because of Bargnani. Maybe I've been watching different games than you've been watching but I've been satified with his 1-on-1 D against opposing Cs this year.

I agree with this. He wasn't brilliant but he certainly wasn't a liability, which is great when playing defending against a guy as accomplished as Rasheed. His rotations are his biggest problem, but his 1-on-1 post defense was fine.

thats the thing you say he was feeling his shot, however he scored in so many ways yesterday making him effective.

It was the kind of varied arsenal you expect to see from him. Those three drives he had were impressive; if he can combine some put backs along with his 3 point shooting I'd be pleased.

[dacrusha]

Nice post but you're missing a major point, pardon the pun. Calderon wasn't able to prevent the Piston PG/SGs from breaking him down at will which forced help early in the clock. There goes our defense.

/thread

TJ's return can't come soon enough.