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LeBron James or Dwight Howard?

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Post#41 » by Harry Palmer » Tue Jan 8, 2008 10:07 pm

Joker wrote:Howard isn't the next Shaq.

By the time Shaq was 22, he was putting up 29/13/3.


True, though I think you meant 21 for Shaq, but it's worth noting that at the time he was playing with Penny.

I don't think Howard is as good as Shaq, but I do think his 22.5/15/1.5 would be better if he had a legit superstar (Penny was 21/4.5/7) alongside to take more pressure off, and it's not THAT ridiculously far off as is. -6.5 pts but + 2 rebounds, and Howard actually has the higher fg%. It's worth noting that Shaq never had a rebounding season as good as Howard is currently having.
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Post#42 » by Hendrix » Tue Jan 8, 2008 10:23 pm

It's close, but I think I take Howard. I think he'll be the best big man in the game for the next 10 years, and it's a lot easier to build around the best big man in the game to win a chamionship.

8 of the last 9 championships had 1 of the 2 best centers in the league on their team. The other team had Ben Wallace who was still the best defensive center in the league. MJ was the only wing player that broke that up and I don't know if Lebron will be as good as MJ. Even then Hakeem won a couple in the 90's. Karreem was in the finals 8 times in the 80's ( with Magic, and he was getting older), Parish was in there with Bird.

Just seems like one thing in common with the vast majority of teams is they have one of the best centers in the league.
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Post#43 » by SpaceJam » Tue Jan 8, 2008 10:55 pm

Hard choice. At his peak Dwight can be putting up 27-18 with 3 blocked shots. At LBJ's prime he would be a triple double machine, like 32-10-9.

A big man like Dwight is like 1 in every decade of basketball, Lebron type guy is like 2 or 3 in the next 10 years.
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Post#44 » by Duffman100 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 10:59 pm

SpaceJam wrote: Lebron type guy is like 2 or 3 in the next 10 years.


I just don't agree with that. Name someone in the past 10 years who is a Lebron type guy.
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Post#45 » by rapz**7** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:30 pm

A better question might be Howard or Paul/D. Williams.
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Post#46 » by raptorsam » Tue Jan 8, 2008 11:52 pm

lebron single handily got cavs to finals. Dwight could never do that.
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Post#47 » by undisputed55 » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:07 am

If we're talking for the Raptors than I would probably take Dwight. With our current team Dwight would be the perfect missing piece. A shot blocking big who is arguably the best rebounder in the league.

LeBron is LeBron, but with our personnel LeBron wouldn't answer all of our problems. However if I was starting from scratch i would take Bron cause you need a great perimeter player for late-game situations.
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Post#48 » by garbagnani » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:29 am

obviously you cant go wrong with either guy, but......

i think you gotta build around D12.

dominant defensive(offensive too) centers are much harder to come by then swingmen (calling lebron a swingman is not really fair when he does everything, i know).

Its easier to build around the dominant center. bottom line.
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Post#49 » by Next Coming » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:38 am

undisputed55 wrote:If we're talking for the Raptors than I would probably take Dwight. With our current team Dwight would be the perfect missing piece. A shot blocking big who is arguably the best rebounder in the league.

LeBron is LeBron, but with our personnel LeBron wouldn't answer all of our problems. However if I was starting from scratch i would take Bron cause you need a great perimeter player for late-game situations.


There's two sides to that coin. Dwight Howard wouldn't answer our perimeter woes.
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Post#50 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:41 am

Next Coming wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



There's two sides to that coin. Dwight Howard wouldn't answer our perimeter woes.


I would argue that he would.

A dominant inside player affects the perim a LOT more than a dominant perim player affects the interior. On both ends of the court.
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Post#51 » by Next Coming » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:44 am

I would see where you would make that point but James is kind of a different type of perimeter player.

He'd probably be our best rebounder.
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Post#52 » by PharoaheMonch » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:52 am

:nonono: At those that are saying Dwight's not dominant. Dwight is THE BIG of this generation, and will continue to be for quite some time. He is as dominant as they come. Once every 10 year type of guy.

Lebron is special in his own right though.......he's more of a 1 in every 15 year type of guy ..it's scary.
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Post#53 » by PharoaheMonch » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:54 am

Harry Palmer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I would argue that he would.

A dominant inside player affects the perim a LOT more than a dominant perim player affects the interior. On both ends of the court.


I agree. Dwight would balance this team up...it's scary to think of the impact he'd make on the team.
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Post#54 » by Harry Palmer » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:54 am

Next Coming wrote:I would see where you would make that point but James is kind of a different type of perimeter player.

He'd probably be our best rebounder.


World's tallest midget!

But seriously, LBJ IS great, but he cannot affect the oher aspects of the game the way a dominant interior player. Opposing defenses ALWAYS stop the interior first, THEN account for the perim. That's why you see recovery runs OUT to the shooter, and never into the big guy; it's always the first check off the list. An outside guy can be left wide open and still miss much of the time...an interior guy who gets the ball uncovered inside, even Rasho, will hit 99/100.

So the nature of the game suggests a dominant inside guy will draw more attention away from other players than a dominant perim guy. For example, when both were in their primes, coaches like PJ himself and Riley still said Hakeem got more attention from opposing defenses as a whole than MJ did. It's the nature of the beast.

And at the other end, there isn't a perim defender alive who affects the nature of the whole defense to the same degree as even just a good defensive 5. They allow ALL other defenders to gamble more, play strong-side off the shooting/drive hand, etc. A dominant defensive perim will, at best, take out someone else and maybe help in the lanes or with the odd recovery. They won't change how the whole team can play defense.

To me the reason this might still go LBJ is that his talent/ability at those areas where he is dominant might be so above others that he still checks out higher on balance. But I don't know.

I DO know that it's probably easier to build a winner around a dominant big than a dominant swing. It's easier to plug in other guys, AND players want to come play with dominant bigs more than any other kind of player, ever great point guards, because they make your job so much easier everywhere.
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Post#55 » by undisputed55 » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:58 am

Next Coming wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



There's two sides to that coin. Dwight Howard wouldn't answer our perimeter woes.


It would because with Bosh and D12 we'd have 2 different types of low post players. D12 playing back to the basket and CB4 playing face up. Both playing to their strengths.

This would effect the perimeter because we wouldn't rely on them as much. With Bosh and Dwight we can make due with TJ/Jose and some average wings.
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Post#56 » by PharoaheMonch » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:59 am

Dwight and Bosh would be one of the greatest front courts of all time.
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Post#57 » by torontoaces04 » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:00 am

after seeing lebron on sunday, i have to go with him by a large margin.
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Post#58 » by PharoaheMonch » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:01 am

LOL at this. Yao or Dwight.......Man Yao's one of the most over-rated players in recent history.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/200 ... 378479.htm
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Post#59 » by Ian4 » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:14 am

PharoaheMonch wrote::nonono: At those that are saying Dwight's not dominant. Dwight is THE BIG of this generation, and will continue to be for quite some time. He is as dominant as they come. Once every 10 year type of guy.

Lebron is special in his own right though.......he's more of a 1 in every 15 year type of guy ..it's scary.

too each their own but i dont think Howard has the same leadership skills or killer instinct that a Oden has i think oden is gonna be a the center of the next 10+ years. i mean offensively oden can create for himself way better and on the denfensice side he's better imo opinion more blocks and there rebounds wont be far apart.

howard is still so raw offensively to take his team anywhere in the playoffs.
but anyways i would take lebron over jesus.
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Post#60 » by Vorticity » Wed Jan 9, 2008 1:15 am

okay wait a second Harry, if you had to chose between Bill Russell and Jordan, what would be your pick?

the thing is that the *superhuman* abilities of a "special" player like LBJ/MJ defies positional logic/efficiency/impact, no? it's an anomaly imo.

tell me the way that LBJ affects (will affect) a game is not superior to DH in every way?

also, comparisons should be done in isolation imo, bringing in the teammates/supporting cast (Shaq/Penny) into the equation will skew the results.
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