darth_federer wrote:Jmatt12 wrote:raptorsam wrote:How about we vent on your horrible thread?
Definitley. Like I said David Lee gets flak for having big numbers only b/c he is on a bad team with a offensive minded coach but Bosh (Bosh is still 100x better than Lee) is just a good player on a horrible team as well. The guy is not a Franchise player. He wants to be but he doesn't want the responsibility and the work . If we resign Bosh next year we still have the same marginal pieces that we have this year. He doesn't have the intangibles (that Kobe, Lebron and even Dwade have) to lead a team.
Okay. The fact that you're comparing a power forward to 2's and 3's is very disturbing. It also shows how relatively fresh you are to the NBA. Please educated yourself before having such a strong opinion about "intangibles"
Superstar 2's and 3's determine the outcome of games because they have the ball in their hands and can do whatever they want on the court with or without it. A PF should never be asked to do this, Duncan has never..and KG has never. Sure they're the horses for their teams..but where would Duncan be without Parker or Manu, or KG without Pierce and Allen? What "intangibles" would these guys be missing if they didn't have their respective help from the wing and point positions?
Now name me wing players even close to that caliber that Bosh has had to work with. Hell, name me some pg/wing players that are even close to what KG had to work with in Minny with Spree and Cassell. I'll wait.
Do you notice that people who know a lot about basketball never compare Duncan to Kobe or KG to Wade? You're comparing wings to bigs and that's just ridiculous.
What are you basing my experience in watching NBA games on. The number of my posts ?
I've been watching for nearly 20 years you idiot. I've probably gone to more NBA games (Vancouver, New York, TO, Seatle) than most posters.
I wasn't comparing Bosh to Lebron and Dwade and Lebron and Kobe based on how effective they are in their respective position. I'm criticizing Bosh based on the fact that he and many others considers himself a franchise player as well as a max player. Are you F*cking kidding me. That is what i have a problem with.
Dwight Howard, KG, Shaq (pre laker era), David Robinson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, Dirk,Charles Barkley, Kevin Mchale, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning (first run with the heat), and Shawn Kemp (sonics era) are all proven big men who were cornerstone (franchise) pieces during their time. These players were untouchable on their team because they made their teams better. They were go to players in crunch time . As bad as Shawn Kemp's career ended, during his prime I never heard him say "there nothing I can do about my players", " I can't light the fire in my team mates" " what do you want me to do score 40 points thats not my game". Bosh hasn't even come close to taking this team to the next level.
What has Bosh done to take this team to the next level. Got bigger ? Got a new Tattoo? Grew dreads? Showed up to the first half of the season ? made a couple of youtube videos ? hit a game winner over Al Horfords head ? Who cares. He is not a franchise player. He is just a glorified player on a horrible team. This guy is nowhere near the calibre of KG (and the rest of the guys I mentioned). When this team hit bottom his attitude is "I can only help myself"[/quote]
Dwight Howard- Vince, Lewis, Nelson
KG- missed playoffs a few years and didnt make it past the first round for 7 years
Shaq- Penny Hardaway
David Robinson- Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro
Larry Bird- Mchale, Parrish e.t.c
Tim Duncan- probably the only exception because he won titles without top 25 players. But then again, he arguably played in a pretty weak era.
Dirk- Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry
Charles Barkley- Dan Majerle, Kevin Johnson, Mo Cheeks,
Kevin Mchale- Larry Bird, Parrish, Dave Cowens
Karl Malone- John Stockon
Patrick Ewing- Allan Houston, Pat Riley, John Starks, Charles Oakley
Alonzo Mourning (first run with the heat)- Tim Hardaway
Shawn Kemp (sonics era)- Gary Payton.
There hasnt been a player who has won without help. Bosh hasnt had close to the amount of help those guys have had.
Yes he isnt a leader, but hes an elite player and we would be stupid to trade him away when we ve had a joke of a team for most of his tenure here. Bring some veterans in like Battier and we ll talk.[/quote]
You are right in that Bosh never had a GP, a John Stockton, even Tim Hardaway. But take away those players from the mix and Bosh still doesn't measure up near to the calibre of Malone, Ewing, Kemp. And with the players he has now he should be even more reliable than ever. If Kemp and Malone went down I dont think they (Sonics & Jazz) would've gone far as they did. Put them in the mix and their respective teams each make great runs in the playoffs. Bosh does not have that kind of impact on this team.
Like you said he isn't a leader which was my point in the first place.
