Reasons to Keep Bargnani

[Too Late Crew]

Jose creates plenty of layups for Amir under the net. Problem is Jose can't create layps for Bargs under the next beccuase he doesn't roll to the net. He flares to the wings or 2 the 3 and waits for someopne to paas it to him .

Jose can't create what's not there.

[Basketball_Jones]

Wow, people seem to be at the complete opposite end of each other. Calderon does create for him, and Bargnani does create his own looks with his dribble drive game. It isn't one or the other. Bargs doesn't get easy looks under the hoop because he doesn't play that way nor is he used that way.

[Cake Walk]

Jose creates plenty of layups for Amir under the net. Problem is Jose can't create layps for Bargs under the next beccuase he doesn't roll to the net. He flares to the wings or 2 the 3 and waits for someopne to paas it to him .

Jose can't create what's not there.

Ok so now Jose doesnt create them for Bargnani, so I guess 60% of his shots are assisted by reggie evans? Are you going to asnwer the question?

Yes I know Amir gets most of his shots through assists, thats not what we are debating here.

So he either gets assisted on the majority of his shots or he is credited "nba assists" where he actually has to make a move to score.

THESE kind of comments lead me to believe you people dont watch the games, or dont understand whats going on.

He is the first option, teams gameplan for him as the number one option, and we have very little offensive talent on this team to draw attention away from Bargnani. We have no 3pt shooters in the starting lineup (calderon doesnt take or make them anymore) and nobody to create shots for themselves except DD once in a while.

You can go on youtube and watch a thousand highlights of almost every game hes ever played, go look at some videos of how he scores because you obviously arent watching the same games.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXm7ec9mQCg[/youtube]

Ya he might get "nba assists" but he needs to make moves to get open, he needs to nail the shots and he needs to get to the right spots on the floor. You are making it seem like hes standing in one spot waiting for other people to draw doubles and draw attention and to chuck up shots.

[Cake Walk]

Wow, people seem to be at the complete opposite end of each other. Calderon does create for him, and Bargnani does create his own looks with his dribble drive game. It isn't one or the other. Bargs doesn't get easy looks under the hoop because he doesn't play that way nor is he used that way.

Hes saying he gets assisted on 60% of his shots like hes a scrub scorer who just receives handoffs for easy layups under the basket. Remember what is being debated. Hes not watching the games just going by what he reads on websites. Anyone who sees the game knows that Bargnani is far away the best offensive player on this team and creates most of his shots with his skill. Just because he gets credited with an assisted shot doesnt mean he didnt work hard to score it. Just look at the link I posted, he uses his speed and height to create separation in order to get clean looks off. Sometimes he scores with a hand right in his face making a really difficult shot, and someone else still gets the assist because its an NBA assist.

[Cake Walk]

guys look at this scrub play against the best team in the eastern conference


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8w6elYOo20[/youtube]

[Basketball_Jones]

Wow, people seem to be at the complete opposite end of each other. Calderon does create for him, and Bargnani does create his own looks with his dribble drive game. It isn't one or the other. Bargs doesn't get easy looks under the hoop because he doesn't play that way nor is he used that way.

Hes saying he gets assisted on 60% of his shots like hes a scrub scorer who just receives handoffs for easy layups under the basket. Remember what is being debated. Hes not watching the games just going by what he reads on websites. Anyone who sees the game knows that Bargnani is far away the best offensive player on this team and creates most of his shots with his skill. Just because he gets credited with an assisted shot doesnt mean he didnt work hard to score it. Just look at the link I posted, he uses his speed and height to create separation in order to get clean looks off. Sometimes he scores with a hand right in his face making a really difficult shot, and someone else still gets the assist because its an NBA assist.

I'm well aware of what both of you are saying, and I disagree with both extreme opinions. I think he does do a nice job creating for himself and I think the team feeds him the ball like crazy so inevitably, he will get a lot of looks off of assists.

[Cake Walk]

Wow, people seem to be at the complete opposite end of each other. Calderon does create for him, and Bargnani does create his own looks with his dribble drive game. It isn't one or the other. Bargs doesn't get easy looks under the hoop because he doesn't play that way nor is he used that way.

Hes saying he gets assisted on 60% of his shots like hes a scrub scorer who just receives handoffs for easy layups under the basket. Remember what is being debated. Hes not watching the games just going by what he reads on websites. Anyone who sees the game knows that Bargnani is far away the best offensive player on this team and creates most of his shots with his skill. Just because he gets credited with an assisted shot doesnt mean he didnt work hard to score it. Just look at the link I posted, he uses his speed and height to create separation in order to get clean looks off. Sometimes he scores with a hand right in his face making a really difficult shot, and someone else still gets the assist because its an NBA assist.

I'm well aware of what both of you are saying, and I disagree with both extreme opinions. I think he does do a nice job creating for himself and I think the team feeds him the ball like crazy so inevitably, he will get a lot of looks off of assists.

Who else are you going to pass it too, realistically? Who do you want to give the shots he takes to? Anyone else on this team in his position would crash and burn. Imagine Amir Johnson trying to take 17 shots a game, people will be screaming for him to stop shooting calling him a scrub.

Bargnani would look much better with a really good PG and another offensive talent next to him to draw away attention, and DD is not that player yet.

[Basketball_Jones]

Who else are you going to pass it too, realistically? Who do you want to give the shots he takes to? Anyone else on this team in his position would crash and burn. Imagine Amir Johnson trying to take 17 shots a game, people will be screaming for him to stop shooting calling him a scrub.

Bargnani would look much better with a really good PG and another offensive talent next to him to draw away attention, and DD is not that player yet.

I don't know, I wouldn't mind Amir or Demar getting more looks or something. But other than that, I'm not really debating the idea of giving Bargnani the ball. I wish he wouldn't shoot so much and maybe be a bit more patient and move the ball, but for the most part my issue with him isn't with his offensive abilities.

[Comeatme_Bro]

DeMar is pretty much the first option when Bargnani is injured. And h averages somewhere around 20 pts. I wouldnt call that crashing and burning especially for a 2nd year player.

[Too Late Crew]

Apparently assists when the ball is passed to Bargs are actually "Fake assists' designed to make Jose look good and Bargs look bad. The entire NBA is in on the conspiracy too! 50% of games are played in other areans with non homtown scorekeepers..so they too are in on the plan to give undeserved assists to players when they pass it to Bargs.

I watch the games I see what I see. The stats match what I see . It is what it is.

[Cake Walk]

Apparently assists when the ball is passed to Bargs are actually "Fake assists' designed to make Jose look good and Bargs look bad. The entire NBA is in on the conspiracy too! 50% of games are played in other areans with non homtown scorekeepers..so they too are in on the plan to give undeserved assists to players when they pass it to Bargs.

I watch the games I see what I see. The stats match what I see . It is what it is.

oh look more inane babbling.

yup the nba created the way the dole out assists just to make bargnani look bad, bargnani excuse number 4545 created by another homer projecting his own thoughts

it not fact, its an excuse!!

i guess bargnani is so unique!! you know...whatever you finish the sentence you are better at making stupid jokes than me

Keep thinking you know what you are talking about, its hilarious.

[Cake Walk]

Who else are you going to pass it too, realistically? Who do you want to give the shots he takes to? Anyone else on this team in his position would crash and burn. Imagine Amir Johnson trying to take 17 shots a game, people will be screaming for him to stop shooting calling him a scrub.

Bargnani would look much better with a really good PG and another offensive talent next to him to draw away attention, and DD is not that player yet.

I don't know, I wouldn't mind Amir or Demar getting more looks or something. But other than that, I'm not really debating the idea of giving Bargnani the ball. I wish he wouldn't shoot so much and maybe be a bit more patient and move the ball, but for the most part my issue with him isn't with his offensive abilities.

OK well then we 100% agree. We need better players than him so he doesnt have to shoot so much, but right now we have nobody so anyone who complains about the amount of shots he gets is a homer.

Its not about "giving" people more shots. You need to be open, make moves or have post position to score. Its not just a matter of give bargnani the ball 20 times and see what happens, and then give demar 20 and see what happens. Thats not how basketball works, if you've ever played it. Sometimes its not even possible for you to shoot because teams scout you and deny your spots so you need to work harder to score elsewhere.

Its not black and white its a million shades of grey. Am I happy with Bargnani as the best player on this team? Just look at our season so far, we need more talent. But I am not going to bemoan the talent we have just because its not enough.

We will be better next year, hopefully with upgrades at tge PG (irving) and C (FA signing) and we can slide bargs over to PF and bring Ed Davis off the bench. Trade amir and Jose for a really good SF and we have potentially a team that can fight for the 6-7th seed in the east.

[SDM]

DeMar is pretty much the first option when Bargnani is injured. And h averages somewhere around 20 pts. I wouldnt call that crashing and burning especially for a 2nd year player.

Food for thought... Since 01/28/2010

DD: 19.4/4.2/1.9, 48%FG, 88%FT, 36 minutes
Bargs: 22.8/4.8/1.7, 44%FG, 80%FT, 37 minutes (Bargs has hit the 3 well over this period, 36%)

Yep, our second year 2 guard is averaging roughly the same number of rebounds as our starting center, has fewer blocked shots (slightly, 0.4 vs. 0.35), and three times the number of steals. Demar's more efficient offensively. Hmm.

[Basketball_Jones]

Yep, our second year 2 guard is averaging roughly the same number of rebounds as our starting center, has fewer blocked shots (slightly, 0.4 vs. 0.35), and three times the number of steals. Demar's more efficient offensively. Hmm.

It's astounding really. In all my years of watching basketball I have never seen anything like it. And Demar is barely an average rebounder at his position, maybe slightly below average.

[Cake Walk]

Yep, our second year 2 guard is averaging roughly the same number of rebounds as our starting center, has fewer blocked shots (slightly, 0.4 vs. 0.35), and three times the number of steals. Demar's more efficient offensively. Hmm.

It's astounding really. In all my years of watching basketball I have never seen anything like it. And Demar is barely an average rebounder at his position, maybe slightly below average.

defensive rebounds have diminishing returns. Does it hurt the team when DD gets the rebound instead of Bargnani?

Hes a poor rebounder but I dont see him getting out-rebounded by other big men like reggie evans (13rpg) does. I've seen bigger players push out reggie evans, amir johnson and ed davis for rebounds as much if not more than bargnani.

Bargnanis problem is that he wont leave his man to rebound for some reason, like he thinks the rebound is going to bounce off the rim 15 feet away and if he runs to the rim the guy hes boxing out is going to get it.

[Comeatme_Bro]

Yep, our second year 2 guard is averaging roughly the same number of rebounds as our starting center, has fewer blocked shots (slightly, 0.4 vs. 0.35), and three times the number of steals. Demar's more efficient offensively. Hmm.

It's astounding really. In all my years of watching basketball I have never seen anything like it. And Demar is barely an average rebounder at his position, maybe slightly below average.

defensive rebounds have diminishing returns. Does it hurt the team when DD gets the rebound instead of Bargnani?

Hes a poor rebounder but I dont see him getting out-rebounded by other big men like reggie evans (13rpg) does. I've seen bigger players push out reggie evans, amir johnson and ed davis for rebounds as much if not more than bargnani.

Bargnanis problem is that he wont leave his man to rebound for some reason, like he thinks the rebound is going to bounce off the rim 15 feet away and if he runs to the rim the guy hes boxing out is going to get it.

Half the time Bargnani doesnt even try to box out.

[SDM]

Hes a poor rebounder but I dont see him getting out-rebounded by other big men like reggie evans (13rpg) does. I've seen bigger players push out reggie evans, amir johnson and ed davis for rebounds as much if not more than bargnani.

Wait, what?

By definition, you're being outrebounded by other big men if you're averaging less than 5 rebounds, are 7 feet tall, and play almost 40 minutes a game.

[Comeatme_Bro]

Hes a poor rebounder but I dont see him getting out-rebounded by other big men like reggie evans (13rpg) does. I've seen bigger players push out reggie evans, amir johnson and ed davis for rebounds as much if not more than bargnani.

Wait, what?

By definition, you're being outrebounded by other big men if you're averaging less than 5 rebounds, are 7 feet tall, and play almost 40 minutes a game.

That doesnt apply to Bargnani since he is letting his teammates get the rebound.

[Truthrising]

I'd keep Bargnani for the sake of Realgm alone, if we didn't have Brags than this board would have nothing to b$%#ch about.

[vergogna]

Since 01/28/2010

random date, isn't it?