Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

[Wally West]

25 year old lol

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That doesn't scare me as much as one his lack of talent and the fact that he transferred and didn't produce at his old school.

[HeadtopChunes]

He is talented, but kind of stuck in between the 4 and the 5 spot, but does have length like you said, but not much of a rim protecctor. Great passer, rebounder and has great touch and plays big. Can stretch it too. Kind of has a lot of the same strengths as a David Lee. Certain guys he might not be able to match that well, like Mo Wagner who would drove by him from the perimeter, but he is interesting because his body is continuously improving and has come a really long way in the last four year, so maybe he can become a lot quicker. He has a place in the league in some capacity.

The one game I got to see of Purdue this year I just watched Swanigan. He is the slowest player I've seen in years. That's not an exaggeration either. If he's playing, it needs to be with 4 other guys quick enough to somewhat compensate for his inability to defend the perimeter in any way. Basically teams will spam the pick and roll against him worst then they did against JV.
Caleb has a ton of offensive skills and can rebound as well. His shooting and passing will make him useful for any team on offense, even if they don't utilize his post game a lot, but he's essentially a one way player. I'm sure there's some video dissecting his utter lack of quickness.
I won't be mad if we pick him, but if there's anyone with a high ceiling as a 2 way player that's the way I'd prefer we go. I don't think there's anyone matching that description though. The 2 way guys left at our pick are likely low ceiling guys.

Yeah his passing is a great indicator of non-bust success in the NBA but I'd also prefer we go two-way player.

Non defensive centers seem out of place these days with the exception of superstar offensive ones (jokic and KAT)

[Wally West]

25 year old lol

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I feel like we've wasted a lot of time on useless workouts over the past couple of years.

Is Jim Kelly still running workouts or something?

Naw he got fired bruh.

[Wally West]

this **** is so rigged

Honestly the Celtics deserved the number 1 pick. Ainge pulled off a masterful trade to bring in this pick. He made exactly the right decision trading guys who are hall of famers for future draft picks and it worked out. Also, the Celtics missed out on Tim Duncan by one friggin pick. They deserve a little good luck after that. And nobody should say the championship was there luck. That was just fantastic management taking advantage of an opportunity.
With all the times the Cavs won the first pick, I'm totally fine with Ainge getting one.

As for our beloved Raptors...The treadmill will continue until Masai is gone. So like a decade more basically.

I absolutely love how much of a heist Danny Ainge was able to pull off. I can't really hate on him here and I don't like the Celtics.

[Wally West]

Honestly the Celtics deserved the number 1 pick. Ainge pulled off a masterful trade to bring in this pick. He made exactly the right decision trading guys who are hall of famers for future draft picks and it worked out. Also, the Celtics missed out on Tim Duncan by one friggin pick. They deserve a little good luck after that. And nobody should say the championship was there luck. That was just fantastic management taking advantage of an opportunity.
With all the times the Cavs won the first pick, I'm totally fine with Ainge getting one.

As for our beloved Raptors...The treadmill will continue until Masai is gone. So like a decade more basically.

Every single major sports team in Boston has won a championship since 2008. I don't think that city deserves more luck.

Congrats to Beantown for their usual embarassment of sports riches.

I have to say I find it comical that Bastan will be picking yet another point guard.

Lonzo Ball, Isiah Thomas, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Demetrius Jackson and A. Bradley. Can you say trades emphatically enough?

Never mind Lebron, this should really press Ujiri into action. Spending a fortune for 53 regular season wins and a playoff sputter is going to get exposed by more than just Cleveland. We not only have to compete in the playoffs but in the head office as well.

I don't know about you guys but I'd gladly take Terry Rozier off their hands even though I'm quite high on both Delon Wright and Fred Van Fleet.

[Wally West]

What do you guys think of UNC's Justin Jackson?

I like him but he doesn't play the passing lanes which is a great indicator of defensive potential in the NBA so he may be a one way player. Not sure what to really make of him yet.

How difficult is that to teach? seems like a change of habit rather than ability.

It's actually quite difficult unless he was playing out of position in college where he had to guard bigger, taller guys ala Kawhi. Kawhi off the top of my head averaged 1.4 steals when he played and his transitioned to small forward in the NBA. I read somewhere that guys that can play the passing lanes in college out of position even at a clip Kawhi was able to do will always translate in the NBA at a higher rate.

[Wally West]

Diallo would be ideal imo

He would be idiallo! Though if Ferguson drops, flip a coin.

I like Diallo over Ferguson and it ain't even close for me. Ferguson looks like a low IQ player with athleticism (Terrence Ross those first 4 years) while Diallo does alot of things well and has an innate ability to score.

[HeadtopChunes]

I like him but he doesn't play the passing lanes which is a great indicator of defensive potential in the NBA so he may be a one way player. Not sure what to really make of him yet.

How difficult is that to teach? seems like a change of habit rather than ability.

It's actually quite difficult unless he was playing out of position in college where he had to guard bigger, taller guys ala Kawhi. Kawhi off the top of my head averaged 1.4 steals when he played and his transitioned to small forward in the NBA. I read somewhere that guys that can play the passing lanes in college out of position even at a clip Kawhi was able to do will always translate in the NBA at a higher rate.

Well Semi played PF in a zone defense so that may have made a difference. He looked fundamentally solid at the combine but nothing special. If we want defense I'd rather go for Bell

[Wally West]

I think there's some good talent in our range maybe even some potentially elite role players. But nobody looks like a star.

At the same time drafts are too unpredictable nobody saw guys like Butler, Milsap, Green IT4 etc coming.

I would've looked like an absolute genius had I voiced my opinion on Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green. This is what I wrote last year explaining my rationale as to why I thought he'd be a star in one of those epic draft threads lol!

On Butler - The industry consensus on him was that he would be a role player as well but there were things that suggested he'd be this kind of player. The first thing is that he was playing small forward in college so his game was hidden not really being featured on the wing sort of like Andrew Wiggins back in 2014. Then in the NBA, out of no where, something usually clicks either right away or in a few years which it did for Wiggins and Butler respectively. Another indicator that he could be a star was his ability to get to the line. This was a guy that people were questioning his ball handling so how was he able to get to the line as such a solid clip? Those were the things that suggested his play would translate in the NBA. What I didn't forsee was his ability to play defense/play the passing lanes but his steal percentage was there playing small foward so I should've seen that.

On Draymond - Just like Klay, his feel for the game and facilitating was off the charts. And just like Kawhi, An wing player who was guarding 4's playing the passing lanes and rebounding at a high clip almost always succeeds in the NBA. Notice a trend here? I would've got killed here comparing him to Lamar Odom but those were the things that suggested that he'd succeed in the NBA.

Btw, where's Bruno Skull with those epic memes in the beginning of these threads?

[Wally West]

1.Markelle Fultz
2.Lonzo Ball
3.Jayson Tatum
4.Josh Jackson
5.De'Aaron Fox
6.Malik Monk
7.Jonathan Isaac
8.Frank Ntilikina
9.Dennis Smith Jr.
10.Lauri Markkanene
11.Zach Collins
12.Jarrett Allen
13.Justin Patton
(Won't be available at 23)

14.Hamidou Diallo
15.Og Anunoby
16.Isaiah Hartenstein
17.Terrance Ferguson
18.Harry Giles
19.Ike Anigbogu
20.Bam Adebayo
21.T.J Leaf
22.Jordan Bell
23.Ivan Rabb
24.Jonathan Jeanne
25.Frank Jackson

Well here is my big board....One of these players should be a Raptor (Obviously Not getting any of the top guys)

But for a short list one of these 25 guys will be available to the team and these are the players i feel have the most potential....Realistically the players from 14 on are targets for me...

Interesting list. I need to do some more digging but does anyone else feel as strongly as I do about Markkanen being a bust? I also like how you have Diallo rated that highly.

[Wally West]

It's a highlight reel so take it as such, but some of the moves he makes are absolutely elite! He seems like one of those Kentucky kids who under perform in college but breakout in the pros.

Watch on YouTube

I like him but I think he's another Cory Joseph which isn't a knock on him.

He reminds me more of Jerryd Bayless

That's an interesting comp. I can see that.

[Wally West]

Rodney Hood? Jordan Clarkson? Seth Curry? TJ McConnell?

Lol you didn't read what I said at all..

"Analytically, guys that haven't produced at a school (Wesley Johnson, Ekpe Udoh) that transferred to go on to have success (Syracuse, Baylor respectively) haven't panned out in the NBA." Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarkson, Seth Curry, TJ McConnell all produced at their old schools before transferring.

That's a weird thing to predict success with and small sample size. Ojeleye has legit concerns but I don't think the whole Duke transfer thing matters

It's weird but it's worked for me in terms of predicting guys with success and guys that'll bust.

[Wally West]

And just like that, I'm finally caught up in this thread lol! I went through about 19 pages but it was worth it haha

[CoachJReturns]

I like him but 1he doesn't play the passing lanes which is a great indicator of defensive potential in the NBA so he may be a one way player. Not sure what to really make of him yet.

How difficult is that to teach? seems like a change of habit rather than ability.

It's actually quite difficult unless he was playing out of position in college where he had to guard bigger, taller guys ala Kawhi. Kawhi off the top of my head averaged 1.4 steals when he played and his transitioned to small forward in the NBA. I read somewhere that guys that can play the passing lanes in college out of position even at a clip Kawhi was able to do will always translate in the NBA at a higher rate.

Yeah I don't think it's typically a skill that can be learned later on. Guys who put up defensive stats are like guys who get a lot of assists. It shows early. There could be any number of reasons and if leave it to NBA scouts and coaches to suggest them, but I don't know of many guys who sent from not showing defensive numbers I college to doing so as a pro for anyone hat did it's probably a very impressive accomplishment.

On a related note I think you can put up big steals without being a great man defender, but if you're a terror in the passing lanes you can still be very useful with the right group of guys. That was a huge component of the success of Philly the year they made the finals. Iverson was masterful at interception g passes and they had enough backup from solid defenders plus the great Mutumbo to set him loose. But I guess all this means is there are always ways to implement elite players if your coach and GM find the right personnel and game plan.

[CoachJReturns]

And just like that, I'm finally caught up in this thread lol! I went through about 19 pages but it was worth it haha

Welcome aboard.

[HeadtopChunes]

Any chance we can trade out pick + Demarre Carroll for the the king's 2nd? Not that much of a difference between 23rd and 33rd pick

76ers have like 4 seconds too. If we want to dump Cojos contract we could probably get 2 in return.

[C_Money]

What's with all these guys who come off the bench and average 4 PPG? Do these type of players ever pan out once they're drafted? Maybe Deandre Jordan comes to mind but he's a freakish athlete.

[TRex520]

I will say Masai surprise us a little by selecting Sindarius Thornwell. Dude is mature, have a nice physical size for a wing. He has a high motor and high PER in college. Seems like someone Casey pick too?

In the last couple of years, Masai picked older college players with high PER. I will not be surprised if we pick him

Yeah I agree on this. Early in this draft process, I think Thornwell and Donovan Mitchell are the favourites for our pick.

Well Mitchell is lotto bound requiring a King's ransome and Thornwell will go second round. Pretty sure BC will give us a deal on the 36th pick when we walk from Lowry at a buck fifty two. Pick 23 is a good chip to land a point guard to compete with Delon and Fred. Thornwell would be a great acquisition.

I think a realistic trade would be with the Pelicans. Our 23th pick + Carroll for their 40th + Soloman Hill... This makes sense for both teams Pelicans have no first round pick and if they want some young talent then they may need to bite our poison as well. For us getting Soloman Hill, not only getting a defensive wing back but also shed some salaries from Carroll for FA

[TRex520]

Any chance we can trade out pick + Demarre Carroll for the the king's 2nd? Not that much of a difference between 23rd and 33rd pick

76ers have like 4 seconds too. If we want to dump Cojos contract we could probably get 2 in return.

I think it makes more sense for teams that have no 1st round pick and we trade down with them. I think Pelicans will be a good trading partner. We get their 40th pick and Hill for 23th and Carroll.

I doubt we will trade CoJo, especially the uncertainty of Kyle's FA. Unless we are super comfortable with Delon and FVV. (I am, but not sure about front office and Casey......)

[iqbalpanchod]

You want to see the 10th circle of hell? There it is.

I would like championships. Depth isn't that important in the playoffs. The line up has a lot versatility, switching, and high volume (and high percentage) shooters. Please tell me what holes it has?

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You really think 3 iso heavy players this late in their careers can coexist and change their playing style? You also have an aging centre who has lost a lot of athleticism and has been a whiny nuisance since his days in Orlando. He had no offensive game and is a liability (did you see the Washington and Atlanta series?) Depth is important in playoffs. We just saw it Game 7 in Boston and Washington. No sane person would put a roster like this together and expect a championship. This is a 2nd round exit team at best with a hideous luxury tax. With aging starters. Plus acquiring all these players probably require picks. Did you not see what Billy King did to the Nets where the damage is going to extend to years?

Anthony and Howard would be brought as role players. They had good seasons and with rested/limited use in the regular season they can rev up themselves for the playoffs.

Howard had a pretty good season and can still anchor a defense pretty well. He had one of his better rebounding seasons. He didn't complain after this season either. Anthony hasn't complained either. Jackson has been ripping on him a lot and it killed his value. That's why I think he could be bought for cents on the dollar.

No picks are used. Cojo, Carroll, Wright, Bebe for Anthony.

Valanciunas,Tucker (S&T), and Siakim for Howard.

Powell for 11th (get an extended rookie contract) and draft OG for defensive reasons.

23 for 37, 39, 50 from the Sixers. Draft Semi Ojeleye, Devin Robinson, and Jonah Bolden. It allows you to sign three year cheap deals or put Jonah as a draft&stash option.

Howard/Poeltl
Anthony/Bruno
Anunby/Bolden/Robinson
DeRozan/Semi/Robinson
Lowry/FVV

Still have vet min as well. The tax would be okay in my opinion. You have 4 marquee players. It doesn't come cheap! One chance to win it all.

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