The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[WaltFrazier]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Jrue is one of the top defensive guards in the league who was a #3 on a title team.

If Suggs becomes that, he will be a huge success.

And if he becomes better offensively than Jrue but not quite as good on D, that's still a huge success.

[bakafool]

Barnes is a project.

But one that could turn out really good.

[alpngso]

man that Suggs number increasing by every minute

[Vorticity]

8PTS,4REB,3AST and 5BLK in 23 mins

[KL78192020]

man that Suggs number increasing by every minute

I don't think its a stretch to say Suggs will have a better rookie year statistically. I think by year 3 we'll know who the better pick is.

[normgod6]

anyone who watched, how was suggs today?

Sent from my SM-A530W using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Pointgod]

man that Suggs number increasing by every minute

I don't think its a stretch to say Suggs will have a better rookie year statistically. I think by year 3 we'll know who the better pick is.

I’m pretty confident in 3 years Suggs will still be the better player.

[HKBOY]

I watched all 3 Magic summer league games, Suggs is just a fierce competitor like Lowry. When they lost to Cleveland last night, he was upset. He would have been the perfect Lowry replacement.

His shots still need some work but there isn't a significant weakness in his game.

[WaltFrazier]

man that Suggs number increasing by every minute

I don't think its a stretch to say Suggs will have a better rookie year statistically. I think by year 3 we'll know who the better pick is.

I’m pretty confident in 3 years Suggs will still be the better player.

The common idea here that Suggs is finished developing, just because he is ahead of Barnes now, is flawed. There's no reason why he can't be more NBA ready now, AND also keep improving and developing over time.

[WaltFrazier]

Just think. If we had drafted Suggs, there wouldn't be all this doubt and hand wringing about Barnes. There wouldn't be a season long debate shaping up. We'd be thrilled with our new Kyle replacement, and Barnes would be another 6'8 athlete. Who might not shine on the inferior Magic the way Suggs will.

This post of mine after 1 game is truer than ever. This thread is 21 pages long. If the picks had been reversed and we took Suggs as expected, this thread wouldn't exist and Barnes would barely be mentioned here.

[HKBOY]

[quote="WaltFrazier] Just think. If we had drafted Suggs, there wouldn't be all this doubt and hand wringing about Barnes. There wouldn't be a season long debate shaping up. We'd be thrilled with our new Kyle replacement, and Barnes would be another 6'8 athlete. Who might not shine on the inferior Magic the way Suggs will.[/quote]

This post of mine after 1 game is truer than ever. This thread is 21 pages long. If the picks had been reversed and we took Suggs as expected, this thread wouldn't exist and Barnes would barely be mentioned here.[/quote]

Guaranteed there would be a few threads calling Suggs a future HOFer after 2 summer league games if we took him.

[Pointgod]

I don't think its a stretch to say Suggs will have a better rookie year statistically. I think by year 3 we'll know who the better pick is.

I’m pretty confident in 3 years Suggs will still be the better player.

The common idea here that Suggs is finished developing, just because he is ahead of Barnes now, is flawed. There's no reason why he can't be more NBA ready now, AND also keep improving and developing over time.

It’s the weirdest take because the thing that is supposed to be Barnes’ saving grace is also also what makes Suggs a standout prospect, DEFENCE! So we pick Barnes and wait 3 years for him to improve his offence, but we pretend that Suggs can’t improve on his already all around offensive capabilities AND provide a defensive from day one?

[NRSV]

My only knock against Suggs is that PG is a pretty talent heavy position in the NBA currently and adding a couple high end players most drafts. An actualized Barnes is harder to find.

That said, Barnes won’t put it all together and looks bad.

[KL78192020]

I’m pretty confident in 3 years Suggs will still be the better player.

The common idea here that Suggs is finished developing, just because he is ahead of Barnes now, is flawed. There's no reason why he can't be more NBA ready now, AND also keep improving and developing over time.

It’s the weirdest take because the thing that is supposed to be Barnes’ saving grace is also also what makes Suggs a standout prospect, DEFENCE! So we pick Barnes and wait 3 years for him to improve his offence, but we pretend that Suggs can’t improve on his already all around offensive capabilities AND provide a defensive from day one?

They can both be stars, and yes Suggs can also get much better, but its to early to say if he will be when its all said and done. I'm not saying Barnes will be better, Suggs can easily end up the better player. He is the better player 20.

[bakafool]

Fck Jalen Suggs. He's not a Raptor.

[anotherhomer]

Barnes is a project.

But one that could turn out really good.

or a bust, in terms of unmet expectations (high-level offense)

[Pointgod]

The common idea here that Suggs is finished developing, just because he is ahead of Barnes now, is flawed. There's no reason why he can't be more NBA ready now, AND also keep improving and developing over time.

It’s the weirdest take because the thing that is supposed to be Barnes’ saving grace is also also what makes Suggs a standout prospect, DEFENCE! So we pick Barnes and wait 3 years for him to improve his offence, but we pretend that Suggs can’t improve on his already all around offensive capabilities AND provide a defensive from day one?

They can both be stars, and yes Suggs can also get much better, but its to early to say if he will be when its all said and done. I'm not saying Barnes will be better, Suggs can easily end up the better player. He is the better player 20.

Realistically there’s a low probability that both of them will be allstars. If you look at top 5 picks there’s not a great track record of allstars.

2019-Zion, Morant,Barrett, Hunter, Garland. Only Zion
2018-Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jaren Jackson, Trey. Only Doncic.
2017-Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Josh Jackson, Fox. Only Tatum
2016-Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Bender, Dunn. Rare time you have 3 allstars.
2015-Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, Herzonja. 3 allstars.
2014-Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Aaron Gordon, Exum. 1 allstar
2013-Anthony Bennett, Oladipo, Porter, Zeller, Alex Len. Oladipo is the only allstar.
2012-Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Beal, Waiters, Thomas Robinson. 2 allstars
2011-Kyrie, Derrick Williams, Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Jonas V. 1 allstar.
2010-John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, Wesley Johnson, Demarcus Cousins. 2 allstars

I could go on but it just gets more depressing. One reason why I’m not a fan of tanking is the low return rate. There hasn’t been a case where both 4 and 5 hit in the same draft since 2008 (Westbrook and Love). The likelihood is that both these guys will be solid starters but not all stars. Fans have no idea how hard it is to draft and develop allstar caliber players, never mind superstars.

[WaltFrazier]

ESPN insiders did a 5on5 piece on the SL so far. 5 "experts" 5 questions.

In answer to who is the SL MVP so far, 2 of the 5 picked Suggs:

Young: Jalen Suggs. There is a belief that Suggs is a culture changer, a player who can lift up a franchise with his polished professionalism and hard-charging competitive motor. So far in Orlando, that has been the case. He looks like the kind of player who wants to do it all, from rebounding and defending to scoring, passing and leading. There are some Russell Westbrook vibes to Suggs' makeup, and the Magic have to be thrilled that he fell to them at No. 5.

Bontemps: Though he left his third game with a hand injury, Suggs showed the Magic, and their fans, everything they could have hoped for. Suggs, who dominated last year as a freshman at Gonzaga, has the potential to finally galvanize a Magic team that has been in desperate need of a true tentpole star to build around. He plays with a rugged, aggressive style at both ends of the court that's easy to fall for, and he can do it all on the court, as he showed by averaging 20 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.0 assists and 1.5 steals through those first two games.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32010903/nba-summer-league-2021-biggest-surprises-disappointments-far-las-vegas

This is what we missed out on, why some of us are still complaining.

[BDDray420]

man that Suggs number increasing by every minute

I don't think its a stretch to say Suggs will have a better rookie year statistically. I think by year 3 we'll know who the better pick is.

I’m pretty confident in 3 years Suggs will still be the better player.

This. How many times have you guys seen raw offensive players turn it around and become star players?

[Pooh_Jeter]

Just think. If we had drafted Suggs, there wouldn't be all this doubt and hand wringing about Barnes. There wouldn't be a season long debate shaping up. We'd be thrilled with our new Kyle replacement, and Barnes would be another 6'8 athlete. Who might not shine on the inferior Magic the way Suggs will.

This post of mine after 1 game is truer than ever. This thread is 21 pages long. If the picks had been reversed and we took Suggs as expected, this thread wouldn't exist and Barnes would barely be mentioned here.

I'd go further than that, if Barnes had the exact same performances he has had with the Raptors and was on a team like OKC or the Magic he would be called a bust and people would be using that as proof that "tanking doesn't work."