Trade Deadline Rumours & Discussion Thread II

[ItsDanger]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

[KrazyP]

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Having 3 starting level players all with the same agency who are all looking for new contracts with significant raises is a recipe for disaster.

Klutch basically has the Raptors franchise in a stranglehold.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Having 3 starting level players all with the same agency who are all looking for new contracts with significant raises is a recipe for disaster.

Klutch basically has the Raptors franchise in a stranglehold.

Now I'm looking at minutes distribution and touches based on who your representation is.

[Tor_Raps]

One consideration is that if Toronto does part with OG, he leaves Toronto with a huge defensive gap to fill. I think what Toronto should look at is acquiring a player that can help on the defensive end. It might be why we have a combo of rumors or elite defensive players like Poeltl incoming while OG outgoing.

The better play to me, one where we target the best player long-term, should trump going for an middling draft assets like late protected firsts. Barring some crazy New Orleans offer, I really like Toronto and Cleveland trading with each other. Cleveland is such a natural fit given that Okoro's best outcome would be to end up like OG. Also, long-term you don't know if Cleveland's frontcourt exactly makes sense in the playoffs.

Jarret Allen to Toronto
OG Anunoby to Cleveland

Toronto gets the best defensive replacement with a contract that is signed for 4 years, while Cleveland gets its elite shooter/defender for the future. I don't think any draft comp. is needed because value-wise, I think it is even.

I know raptor fans will not like to hear this but Allen has meant more to the Cavs than OG has to the Raptors. Mobley isn't ready to be a Center yet so Allen won't be going anywhere until that point.

Cavs would have to get Poeltl/OG for Allen/filler in a 3 way trade to consider it. For that reason, I don't think any real happens because I'd rather have OG/Poeltl every day of the week.

[ItsDanger]

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Having 3 starting level players all with the same agency who are all looking for new contracts with significant raises is a recipe for disaster.

Klutch basically has the Raptors franchise in a stranglehold.

A clear risk factor. Lets see if Raps management have any risk managers in their mix. I doubt it.

[Tor_Raps]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

[BHF]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=x4GdMN8FrzzhmfphIyxwAA

They can all go, i want Wembanyama

[WaltFrazier]

Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

As an aside, the first time I ever saw that phrase was about the 1970 Knicks, my first favorite team. Undersized for their era, not having superstars like West-Chamberlain-Baylor in LA. A team built on defense and ball movement and great shooting. Since then I've appreciated teams that won that way, the 77 Trailblazers, 79 Sonics, the Bad Boys Pistons. Isiah Thomas coined a phrase, The Secret, which Bill Simmons wrote at length about in his Book of Basketball. The concept of individual players sacrificing their own stats especially scoring for the good of the team and the sake of winning. Isiah did it then, Kyle did it in 2019 by becoming more of a passer. The 2020 Raps were a great example of that kind of team, and during our 2nd half push last season we saw some of it again. But this year's team has lost that quality. A lot of that is lack of talent and size and athleticism, and a lot is lacking the kind of playmaker who makes other players better. Maybe Scottie can be that but we also need a guard who can bring that to the team.

[SFour]

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Having 3 starting level players all with the same agency who are all looking for new contracts with significant raises is a recipe for disaster.

Klutch basically has the Raptors franchise in a stranglehold.

yup they're holding the Raptors hostage to a degree....I completely forgot that Nurse was with Klutch....OG, Trent, Nurse, potentially FVV...

I don't know how you could look at that and not see some red flags, especially considering ALL 4 want to get paid big.

[ItsDanger]

Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

As an aside, the first time I ever saw that phrase was about the 1970 Knicks, my first favorite team. Undersized for their era, not having superstars like West-Chamberlain-Baylor in LA. A team built on defense and ball movement and great shooting. Since then I've appreciated teams that won that way, the 77 Trailblazers, 79 Sonics, the Bad Boys Pistons. Isiah Thomas coined a phrase, The Secret, which Bill Simmons wrote at length about in his Book of Basketball. The concept of individual players sacrificing their own stats especially scoring for the good of the team and the sake of winning. Isiah did it then, Kyle did it in 2019 by becoming more of a passer. The 2020 Raps were a great example of that kind of team, and during our 2nd half push last season we saw some of it again. But this year's team has lost that quality. A lot of that is lack of talent and size and athleticism, and a lot is lacking the kind of playmaker who makes other players better. Maybe Scottie can be that but we also need a guard who can bring that to the team.

Do you recall Isiah Thomas "forcing" Adrian Dantley off the team in favour of Mark Aguirre in a trade? Worked out well for Pistons but the logic behind it was interesting. Dantley is still butt hurt about it.

[WaltFrazier]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

I think he feels it's necessary in this era of player empowerment, to appeal to a player's sense of how can I make more money. But then Nick talked about teaching winning basketball plays, and the award winners each year come from winning teams. It does seem a bit of a conflict, not sure how he reconciles appealing to individual players success vs the concept of sacrificing for the team.

[vulture]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

What a dumb thing to say. When I worked for MLSE, the mantra was how do we increase the value of our employees in the market place. It's not selfish when you are trying to motivate people to do better at their jobs. It's not selfish to get guys working harder to get paid. It's not selfish when you are trying to get people to get promoted. that's called life.

Anyway here is the full clip.

Watch on YouTube

[Zeno]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

Financial incentives is one of the core principles of how the Raps do business, It is why they hand out so many player options and shorter deals. It is why the Raps give out so many partial guarantees for training camp and then just cut a bunch of guys for dead money. It has worked well in the past but I guess there is a critical mass of these things lining up that they reached this year.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Having 3 starting level players all with the same agency who are all looking for new contracts with significant raises is a recipe for disaster.

Klutch basically has the Raptors franchise in a stranglehold.

yup they're holding the Raptors hostage to a degree....I completely forgot that Nurse was with Klutch....OG, Trent, Nurse, potentially FVV...

I don't know how you could look at that and not see some red flags, especially considering ALL 4 want to get paid big.

Don't forget when they tried to pawn Ben Simmons off on us for Siakam. Would have been the biggest mistake of his career and we can thank Morey for getting greedy that it didn't happen. Masai needs to clean this up or he's just going to turn this into another Portland.

[ItsDanger]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

What a dumb thing to say. When I worked for MLSE, the mantra was how do we increase the value of our employees in the market place. It's not selfish when you are trying to motivate people to do better at their jobs. It's not selfish to get guys working harder to get paid. It's not selfish when you are trying to get people to get promoted. that's called life.

Anyway here is the full clip.

Watch on YouTube

Not a good analogy. NBA stats are essentially a zero sum. In your typical company, you can grow the pie.

[Zeno]

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

What a dumb thing to say. When I worked for MLSE, the mantra was how do we increase the value of our employees in the market place. It's not selfish when you are trying to motivate people to do better at their jobs. It's not selfish to get guys working harder to get paid. It's not selfish when you are trying to get people to get promoted. that's called life.

Anyway here is the full clip.

Watch on YouTube

Not a good analogy. NBA stats are essentially a zero sum. In your typical company, you can grow the pie.

Winning grows the pie and its perceived quality.

[vulture]

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

What a dumb thing to say. When I worked for MLSE, the mantra was how do we increase the value of our employees in the market place. It's not selfish when you are trying to motivate people to do better at their jobs. It's not selfish to get guys working harder to get paid. It's not selfish when you are trying to get people to get promoted. that's called life.

Anyway here is the full clip.

Watch on YouTube

Not a good analogy. NBA stats are essentially a zero sum. In your typical company, you can grow the pie.

Watch the clip. you really have to be the most negative person on here man.

[ItsDanger]

What a dumb thing to say. When I worked for MLSE, the mantra was how do we increase the value of our employees in the market place. It's not selfish when you are trying to motivate people to do better at their jobs. It's not selfish to get guys working harder to get paid. It's not selfish when you are trying to get people to get promoted. that's called life.

Anyway here is the full clip.

Watch on YouTube

Not a good analogy. NBA stats are essentially a zero sum. In your typical company, you can grow the pie.

Winning grows the pie and its perceived quality.

Salary cap and correlation of stats to contract $ would say otherwise.

[Tor_Raps]

No idea why this didn't get more attention but as a fan, I wasn't pleased with this coaching mantra by Nurse:

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-news-nick-nurse-reveals-significance-of-getting-players-paid-and-youth-development

"In an appearance on former NBA player J.J. Redick’s podcast, Nurse revealed one of his secrets to coaching. The Raptors head coach revealed why it’s important to coach players toward getting paid."

This wouldn't fly for 1 second in the NHL. I guarantee that.

Would help explain the selfish nature of this team. That would be horrible thinking from a team perspective.

I think he feels it's necessary in this era of player empowerment, to appeal to a player's sense of how can I make more money. But then Nick talked about teaching winning basketball plays, and the award winners each year come from winning teams. It does seem a bit of a conflict, not sure how he reconciles appealing to individual players success vs the concept of sacrificing for the team.

Ya but when the team he coaches has shown to be near the bottom in total passes and assists, he's clearly failing at finding that balance.

It's one thing if our team has a Kawhi/Durant where we can lean on iso ball... we all know this team has a bunch of weak iso players. There is no mistake that the best players on our team are also our best passers (Siakam/Barnes).

You can tell on the court who is out there looking for "his" and ot's those players that others dont like to play with. No surprise that we're hearing about a bunch of unhappy players now.

[Los_29]

Did they have pending UFAs last season?

If that actually mattered, we should be playing better.

Not in my experience, playing winning basketball requires most players on the team to sacrifice individual stats.

The evidence suggests the opposite. Pending FA's generally have a lower usage than in years past. Why on earth would a team sign a player who insists on padding his stats at the expense of playing team basketball? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

GTJ's usage is identical to what it was last year and he's been 3 percentage points more efficient with a 57.6% TS% compared to 54.6% from last year. Fred's usage is more than a percentage point down from last year. So what pending FA's are you referring to? Juancho is a UFA at the end of the year, do you think he's not sacrificing individual stats? Because it's certainly not GTJ or Fred.