Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[MonkBatter42]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

[TorontoBarneys]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

That's fine but Scottie's handles are still better than 2nd year DeMar's were, by quite a large margin.

[Spates]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

What even is a PG nowadays? DeMar is effectively a PG

[C_Money]

I’m going to be patient with him but he needs to work on his scoring. He will not be an all-star until he does this.

[Tha Cynic]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

What does this have to do with anything lol? He said if there's a preferred position it would be PG. You have an issue with him wanting to strive for something or having a personal preference?

[HiJiNX]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

That has nothing to do with the point, respectfully.

[MonkBatter42]

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

That has nothing to do with the point, respectfully.

Well, it was relevant insofar as the Demar comparison. The lack of handles for a player who strives to be a PG is far more grave, than for an athletic wing coming into the NBA. All I was saying is that it was not an apt comparison.

[Johnny Bball]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

I couldn't agree more. I wish someone could explain WHY there is this significant chunk of the fanbase that either thinks that Scottie is currently a point guard or can become one? As you correctly point out, since when does a point guard have subpar handles, a very inconsistent 3 point shot, no pull-up game, nor the ability to shake/break down his man off the dribble? It's like, yes, he's a very good passer for his size, but that doesn't inherently mean you're now the point guard.

He likely ends up a mix of a point forward (transition and if he can ever develop a better drive and dish game/PNR game) and a point centre (Like said above, a hub) where he finds cutters. But to develop the drive and dish game he pretty much needs to improve his 3 point shooting a fair bit to create space since he doesn't have a lightning fast first step.

But he's got some way to go yet.

[Spates]

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

That has nothing to do with the point, respectfully.

Well, it was relevant insofar as the Demar comparison. The lack of handles for a player who strives to be a PG is far more grave, than for an athletic wing coming into the NBA. All I was saying is that it was not an apt comparison.

The point is simply that handles can be developed significantly.

[Tha Cynic]

Sure, but I don't recall Demar ever proclaiming to be a point guard, or the fanbase wanting him to be a point guard.

That has nothing to do with the point, respectfully.

Well, it was relevant insofar as the Demar comparison. The lack of handles for a player who strives to be a PG is far more grave, than for an athletic wing coming into the NBA. All I was saying is that it was not an apt comparison.

This still doesn't make any sense. Both players needed to improve their handles. Poster gave example of player who was worse with his handles and improved and actually became a primary ball handler for his teams. You came back with how he never proclaimed he wanted to be a PG.

What does one have to do with the other? lol

This is like the kid who said "I like turtles". I'm also not surprised by who liked your posts lol.

[HiJiNX]

I’ve been around basketball enough to know that most people can get good at shooting and dribbling with enough reps and the right approach. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll be good at playing but we already know Scottie is really good at reading the basketball court, so there’s no worry that he will be one of these guys who develops skills but still can’t play. In fact, I expect the opposite to be true. He will develop a jumper and a handle and finish better from a variety of locations and he will be quite unstoppable once he gets there. Maybe he never is stellar shooting the three but it’s hard to see how he doesn’t become a good midrange shooter at minimum. I also don’t expect him to have complex dribble packages but with his strength he just needs enough to gain an advantage. Just being competent at those two things will open everything up for him. I’m not at all worried. It’s like a bunch of us forgot what development looks like.

[Spates]

I’ve been around basketball enough to know that most people can get good at shooting and dribbling with enough reps and the right approach. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll be good at playing but we already know Scottie is really good at reading the basketball court, so there’s no worry that he will be one of these guys who develops skills but still can’t play. In fact, I expect the opposite to be true. He will develop a jumper and a handle and finish better from a variety of locations and he will be quite unstoppable once he gets there. Maybe he never is stellar shooting the three but it’s hard to see how he doesn’t become a good midrange shooter at minimum. I also don’t expect him to have complex dribble packages but with his strength he just needs enough to gain an advantage. Just being competent at those two things will open everything up for him. I’m not at all worried. It’s like a bunch of us forgot what development looks like.

We were spoiled by DeMar's consistent linear progression. And the emergence of Fred, Pascal, Norm, etc. As much as role cards were panned as limiting, Casey found ideal roles for most of his roster.

Scottie is a natural. Whatever he becomes will be effective and a fit on most rosters.

[gbball]

Am I the only one who was pretty impressed with Barnes performance against Cleveland? From reading the comments you'd think he was terrible...but he did a really good job of setting the table for his teammates and getting right to the rim for good looks at layups. He was fairly assertive overall and had some great feeds to Siakam and Poeltl for layups.

He does need to finish better at the rim and that's been a disappointing trend this season. I don't see it being an issue next year though. The fact that he's getting consistent good looks at the basket is very good and a sign of progress.

Defensively, he didn't do a good job on Garland...but why was he covering Garland in the first place? I can't put that on him.

[HiJiNX]

Am I the only one who was pretty impressed with Barnes performance against Cleveland? From reading the comments you'd think he was terrible...but he did a really good job of setting the table for his teammates and getting right to the rim for good looks at layups. He was fairly assertive overall and had some great feeds to Siakam and Poeltl for layups.

He does need to finish better at the rim and that's been a disappointing trend this season. I don't see it being an issue next year though. The fact that he's getting consistent good looks at the basket is very good and a sign of progress.

Defensively, he didn't do a good job on Garland...but why was he covering Garland in the first place? I can't put that on him.

I thought he did well against Detroit, too. I would have liked him to take more shots against Cleveland. He left a lot of jumpers on the table.

[Reeko]

I’ve been around basketball enough to know that most people can get good at shooting and dribbling with enough reps and the right approach. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll be good at playing but we already know Scottie is really good at reading the basketball court, so there’s no worry that he will be one of these guys who develops skills but still can’t play. In fact, I expect the opposite to be true. He will develop a jumper and a handle and finish better from a variety of locations and he will be quite unstoppable once he gets there. Maybe he never is stellar shooting the three but it’s hard to see how he doesn’t become a good midrange shooter at minimum. I also don’t expect him to have complex dribble packages but with his strength he just needs enough to gain an advantage. Just being competent at those two things will open everything up for him. I’m not at all worried. It’s like a bunch of us forgot what development looks like.

We were spoiled by DeMar's consistent linear progression. And the emergence of Fred, Pascal, Norm, etc. As much as role cards were panned as limiting, Casey found ideal roles for most of his roster.

Scottie is a natural. Whatever he becomes will be effective and a fit on most rosters.

DeMar's progression wasn't all that linear to be honest. We saw a big jump from year 1 to year 2, but from year 2 till about year 6 he was, statistically speaking, more or less the same guy. Of course we saw some improvements with ball handling and footwork and passing during that time, but it isn't really until year 7 or 8 where he took a major leap.

We might not see who Scottie can really become until year 4 or 5. Honestly I hope they just make him the primary ball handler so that we can accelerate his development. Just give him the ball and tell him "It's sink or swim Scottie, do what needs to be done." I bet you we see Michael Phelps out there.

[KP730]

I’ve been around basketball enough to know that most people can get good at shooting and dribbling with enough reps and the right approach. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll be good at playing but we already know Scottie is really good at reading the basketball court, so there’s no worry that he will be one of these guys who develops skills but still can’t play. In fact, I expect the opposite to be true. He will develop a jumper and a handle and finish better from a variety of locations and he will be quite unstoppable once he gets there. Maybe he never is stellar shooting the three but it’s hard to see how he doesn’t become a good midrange shooter at minimum. I also don’t expect him to have complex dribble packages but with his strength he just needs enough to gain an advantage. Just being competent at those two things will open everything up for him. I’m not at all worried. It’s like a bunch of us forgot what development looks like.

We were spoiled by DeMar's consistent linear progression. And the emergence of Fred, Pascal, Norm, etc. As much as role cards were panned as limiting, Casey found ideal roles for most of his roster.

Scottie is a natural. Whatever he becomes will be effective and a fit on most rosters.

DeMar's progression wasn't all that linear to be honest. We saw a big jump from year 1 to year 2, but from year 2 till about year 6 he was, statistically speaking, more or less the same guy. Over course we saw some improvements with ball handling and footwork and passing during that time, but it isn't really until year 7 or 8 where he took a major leap.

We might not see who Scottie can really become until year 4 or 5. Honestly I hope they just make him the primary ball handler so that we can accelerate his development. Just give him the ball and tell him "It's sink or swim Scottie, do what needs to be done." I bet you we see Michael Phelps out there.

yeah, Demar's first big jump happened from year 1 to 2. his rookie year was very raw, so nobody was really adjusting to him like that during his sophomore year, and he broke out that year. but in year 3? teams adjusted and he struggled, took a pretty big step back in most stat categories. took him a while to adjust to that. once Demar unlocked his playmaking/passing, his game really opened up offensively

[Tha Cynic]

Am I the only one who was pretty impressed with Barnes performance against Cleveland? From reading the comments you'd think he was terrible...but he did a really good job of setting the table for his teammates and getting right to the rim for good looks at layups. He was fairly assertive overall and had some great feeds to Siakam and Poeltl for layups.

He does need to finish better at the rim and that's been a disappointing trend this season. I don't see it being an issue next year though. The fact that he's getting consistent good looks at the basket is very good and a sign of progress.

Defensively, he didn't do a good job on Garland...but why was he covering Garland in the first place? I can't put that on him.

Nope, I mentioned also that he has been getting better and better from the first game to the 3rd game. He's trying more things and looks more comfortable with the ball. Barnes is a guy who simply needs reps and the more consistent run you give him, the better he will get in season. It's too bad Van Vleet didn't take some additional time off because this stretch would have been good for Barnes' progress into next season. I do feel like we are taking a slower path to develop by trying to go all in during a lost season.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Lowkey the best thing that could have happened for Scottie would have been us sucking last year so he could play in the G-League and get reps as an on ball guy with real games. Maybe to end off this year Nurse gives him more bench + Scottie minutes and mandates Scottie to shoot at least every other possession

He tries in spurts but you can see he doesn't like to do it because he feels hes ball hogging or taking away from a better scorer. I don't really know the ideal role for him, but as of now he's more a playmaking wing than a point guard. He can't really get into the paint with an advantage to draw help and make passes most of the time, he also doesn't really have a pull up game to use in PnR or a consistent jumper off the dribble. Those are a lot of things to have to develop

[Reeko]

Lowkey the best thing that could have happened for Scottie would have been us sucking last year so he could play in the G-League and get reps as an on ball guy with real games. Maybe to end off this year Nurse gives him more bench + Scottie minutes and mandates Scottie to shoot at least every other possession

He tries in spurts but you can see he doesn't like to do it because he feels hes ball hogging or taking away from a better scorer. I don't really know the ideal role for him, but as of now he's more a playmaking wing than a point guard. He can't really get into the paint with an advantage to draw help and make passes most of the time, he also doesn't really have a pull up game to use in PnR or a consistent jumper off the dribble. Those are a lot of things to have to develop

I'm not sure how us sucking leads to Scottie getting sent to the G League.

[WuTang_CMB]

Shooting Shooting Shooting

Needs to take 1000 shots a day in the summer

his interior game is elite , if he gets a shot, he's a totally different player