2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[ATLTimekeeper]

But I have a question for both of you, would Miller be redundant on this team?

Colby Jones makes sense. We can get an older version of what we need OR a younger version that has the potential to full what we need. That's where we are for our pick right now. No Cason. No Black. No Gradey. No Wallace. None of those guys will be around.

I don't think a team with a bench that inept can be accused of having redundancy concerns.

[Psubs]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Looking at these, Cissoko's WS/48 is a red flag.

.008 and -.041 in the showcase games. I know his rebounding is garbage, but he should be considered more of a project and a multi-year Gleague player.

I'm higher on Miller, who is a stringbean that eats glass and finishes in the paint. Motor and toughness travel.

Yeah, I don't get the Cissoko hype. I think he has some tools and the potential be a decent NBA rotation guy if he lands with the right team and puts in the work but if I'm going to make that sort of a gamble, I've come around on Leonard Miller. A huge wing player who can rebound and score in the paint with relative ease.

His shooting isn't great but if he can get to 35-36 3ptFG and adequate perimeter defense, I think he could return great value compared to where he was taken, which I anticipate to be 25-30. I do think he could be a riser come workouts and combine though; NBA GMs love their big wings.

I do like Cissoko but I can't rationalize taking him over guys like Colby Jones or Kobe Bufkin. But if those guys are off the board and you want to take a chance on an SG, he's your guy for sure.

Don't really need Cissoko to rebound. I think Miller cleans the boards with 11 per game and Eric Mika with 8.6 per game.

Cissoko is already shooting 3's BEYOND the NBA 3pt line. A lot of his shots are even 2 feet beyond the arc. He's just shooting in the flow of the offense, not caring how far he is. Perhaps that hurt's his %'s but he already has the range at 30% as an 18 year old. Kobe and MJ have career's around 31% from 3.

If you look at his body at 6'7-6'8 he's already NBA ready like a Jarace Walker.

[ItsDanger]

has Leonard miller improved?

3 pt shot form is much better now, has gotten bigger. Scored efficiently and seemed to improve as season went on. Defense, in between game are big question marks.

[Psubs]

But I have a question for both of you, would Miller be redundant on this team?

Colby Jones makes sense. We can get an older version of what we need OR a younger version that has the potential to full what we need. That's where we are for our pick right now. No Cason. No Black. No Gradey. No Wallace. None of those guys will be around.

I don't think a team with a bench that inept can be accused of having redundancy concerns.

OG is pushed to start at SG, so yes, they don't need another forward prospect, even with Thaddeus let go and Boucher traded. Will Leonard Miller push Precious for the backup PF mins? Guard is a much bigger need.

Just need to get someone that can become a starter like Keegan Murray. The Kings had a path for him to win the starting SF position. The Raptors have one at SG. Would spend the MLE on Donte DiVincenzo and dump Flynn and Banton with Boucher.

[Rapsfan07]

Looking at these, Cissoko's WS/48 is a red flag.

.008 and -.041 in the showcase games. I know his rebounding is garbage, but he should be considered more of a project and a multi-year Gleague player.

I'm higher on Miller, who is a stringbean that eats glass and finishes in the paint. Motor and toughness travel.

Yeah, I don't get the Cissoko hype. I think he has some tools and the potential be a decent NBA rotation guy if he lands with the right team and puts in the work but if I'm going to make that sort of a gamble, I've come around on Leonard Miller. A huge wing player who can rebound and score in the paint with relative ease.

His shooting isn't great but if he can get to 35-36 3ptFG and adequate perimeter defense, I think he could return great value compared to where he was taken, which I anticipate to be 25-30. I do think he could be a riser come workouts and combine though; NBA GMs love their big wings.

I do like Cissoko but I can't rationalize taking him over guys like Colby Jones or Kobe Bufkin. But if those guys are off the board and you want to take a chance on an SG, he's your guy for sure.

But I have a question for both of you, would Miller be redundant on this team?

Colby Jones makes sense. We can get an older version of what we need OR a younger version that has the potential to full what we need. That's where we are for our pick right now. No Cason. No Black. No Gradey. No Wallace. None of those guys will be around.

I am, perhaps foolishly, still holding out hope for Wallace lol. It's a good question for sure, though.

I think the short answer is yes. But I also think that we have to consider
a) how far away from being a productive player is Cissoko vs Miller
b) what is the potential of Cissoko vs Miller, as realistically as we can project it
c) what is the likelihood that they reach that and if they don't, do they still have an NBA role

Outside of his passing and his size (which are commendable, don't get me wrong), I don't see that Cissoko has a whole lot to offer. Not particularly good from the line, not a great shooter from 3 (albeit not much less than Miller), not a great defender right now.

Miller has a reasonable midrange jumper, can finish with both hands inside, shoots the three a little better than Cissoko, has a much better free throw percentage, a decent passer (not as good as Cissoko). Also might be worse noting that his WS is better than Cissoko's.

I could be wrong... we all could.. But it seems to me that if both do reach their potential, Miller ends up being the more valuable piece in the NBA. Then you have to consider that there are, in my opinion, better guards available in the same range.

[Psubs]

Yeah, I don't get the Cissoko hype. I think he has some tools and the potential be a decent NBA rotation guy if he lands with the right team and puts in the work but if I'm going to make that sort of a gamble, I've come around on Leonard Miller. A huge wing player who can rebound and score in the paint with relative ease.

His shooting isn't great but if he can get to 35-36 3ptFG and adequate perimeter defense, I think he could return great value compared to where he was taken, which I anticipate to be 25-30. I do think he could be a riser come workouts and combine though; NBA GMs love their big wings.

I do like Cissoko but I can't rationalize taking him over guys like Colby Jones or Kobe Bufkin. But if those guys are off the board and you want to take a chance on an SG, he's your guy for sure.

But I have a question for both of you, would Miller be redundant on this team?

Colby Jones makes sense. We can get an older version of what we need OR a younger version that has the potential to full what we need. That's where we are for our pick right now. No Cason. No Black. No Gradey. No Wallace. None of those guys will be around.

I am, perhaps foolishly, still holding out hope for Wallace lol. It's a good question for sure, though.

I think the short answer is yes. But I also think that we have to consider
a) how far away from being a productive player is Cissoko vs Miller
b) what is the potential of Cissoko vs Miller, as realistically as we can project it
c) what is the likelihood that they reach that and if they don't, do they still have an NBA role

Outside of his passing and his size (which are commendable, don't get me wrong), I don't see that Cissoko has a whole lot to offer. Not particularly good from the line, not a great shooter from 3 (albeit not much less than Miller), not a great defender right now.

Miller has a reasonable midrange jumper, can finish with both hands inside, shoots the three a little better than Cissoko, has a much better free throw percentage, a decent passer (not as good as Cissoko). Also might be worse noting that his WS is better than Cissoko's.

I could be wrong... we all could.. But it seems to me that if both do reach their potential, Miller ends up being the more valuable piece in the NBA. Then you have to consider that there are, in my opinion, better guards available in the same range.

I would say the growth of 3 inches in the last year or so has him adjusting. His shot looks decent so I think he'll be able to progress like OG at the FT line. I see the potential of Jalen Rose in OG's body (maybe not as thick thighed so 6'7 220). GLeague has him at 6'8, he has to be more than 200lbs or did he gain weight during the season? He's finishing with contact and dunking on men.

[Dalek]

has Leonard miller improved?

3 pt shot form is much better now, has gotten bigger. Scored efficiently and seemed to improve as season went on. Defense, in between game are big question marks.

He seems like a strict four man which to me is tough to carve out a role in the NBA. He is not a good defender and his value is solely on offense and he can't hit threes and is nothing special as a point-forward. I don't know, but he is a project four man and that would make more sense as a second rounder.

[Psubs]

has Leonard miller improved?

3 pt shot form is much better now, has gotten bigger. Scored efficiently and seemed to improve as season went on. Defense, in between game are big question marks.

He seems like a strict four man which to me is tough to carve out a role in the NBA. He is not a good defender and his value is solely on offense and he can't hit threes and is nothing special as a point-forward. I don't know, but he is a project four man and that would make more sense as a second rounder.

I think he's like at min a Kai Jones level prospect with more forwards skills. The way he moves, reminds me of Bosh. Poor man's Bosh is his ceiling though.

[Dalek]

3 pt shot form is much better now, has gotten bigger. Scored efficiently and seemed to improve as season went on. Defense, in between game are big question marks.

He seems like a strict four man which to me is tough to carve out a role in the NBA. He is not a good defender and his value is solely on offense and he can't hit threes and is nothing special as a point-forward. I don't know, but he is a project four man and that would make more sense as a second rounder.

I think he's like at min a Kai Jones level prospect with more forwards skills. The way he moves, reminds me of Bosh. Poor man's Bosh is his ceiling though.

I just can't buy stock in a guy with shooting form like that. Low release and slow to get it off, I just don't see too much like Bosh other than being a lefty and having a quirky game. Given his inside efficiency and rebounding but lacking in threes and defense, I see Marvin Bagley as his comp. We are now in year six of Bagley trying to find a niche in the NBA.

[Syd-TK3]

In honour of him declaring, and to remind folks of what he was before his injuries this year: Dariq Whitehead at Monteverde:

Read on Twitter

Former Scottie and Precious teammate
At Duke despite injuries still averaged 42% from three and 79 FT%
Still only 18YO

Dariq could be the next draftee who was probably top five coming into the class but injuries derailed his outlook.

People look back at OG and his injuries that led to him being 20s pick. To me, we didn't see a healthy Whitehead all year. Could be a steal in our range. Watching him play, he reminds me a lot of Harrison Barnes. Just a shooting guard/forward who will have a long career in the NBA assuming his injuries aren't a long-term concern.

It wouldn't make sense for us given the direction of the team but if I'm the pacers or nets with 2+ picks I'd use one on him.

I think there's a big difference between not living up to your hype and not getting the chance to. But you gotta be very confident in him recovering to that previous health/athleticism

[ATLTimekeeper]

He's largely just taking above the break 3s. %s are likely going to look bad on those for younger players.. Time will tell on that, but rebounding tends to translate. I'm not sure how we can grade Gleague defense, especially on the Ignite. They get back on D, which is more than most Gleague teams. These Ignite kids are all projects. But Miller's absolutely a first rounder in this draft.

[ItsDanger]

Saw Whitehead play a few times. Good perimeter shooter, supposedly a 3 level scorer, but I didn't see mid range much. Basically was 4th option, low usage on Duke. By the end was elbow and corner 3 pt shooter on the floor. Good defensive upside. I would need to see his handles more in traffic and how he goes left. Workouts will be huge factor for him. Basically, first 6 weeks or so were kind of a wash in his season.

[Psubs]

Saw Whitehead play a few times. Good perimeter shooter, supposedly a 3 level scorer, but I didn't see mid range much. Basically was 4th option, low usage on Duke. By the end was elbow and corner 3 pt shooter on the floor. Good defensive upside. I would need to see his handles more in traffic and how he goes left. Workouts will be huge factor for him. Basically, first 6 weeks or so were kind of a wash in his season.

He looks slower and less bouncy after the injury. So could be AJ Griffin 2.0 with possibly more passing skills.

[Psubs]

He seems like a strict four man which to me is tough to carve out a role in the NBA. He is not a good defender and his value is solely on offense and he can't hit threes and is nothing special as a point-forward. I don't know, but he is a project four man and that would make more sense as a second rounder.

I think he's like at min a Kai Jones level prospect with more forwards skills. The way he moves, reminds me of Bosh. Poor man's Bosh is his ceiling though.

I just can't buy stock in a guy with shooting form like that. Low release and slow to get it off, I just don't see too much like Bosh other than being a lefty and having a quirky game. Given his inside efficiency and rebounding but lacking in threes and defense, I see Marvin Bagley as his comp. We are now in year six of Bagley trying to find a niche in the NBA.

I can see Marvin Bagley level that moves like Bosh.

[DreamTeam09]

Whitehead and Hawkins should definitely be in play for us. Athletic shooting guards is exactly what this team should be looking for.

[ItsDanger]

Saw Whitehead play a few times. Good perimeter shooter, supposedly a 3 level scorer, but I didn't see mid range much. Basically was 4th option, low usage on Duke. By the end was elbow and corner 3 pt shooter on the floor. Good defensive upside. I would need to see his handles more in traffic and how he goes left. Workouts will be huge factor for him. Basically, first 6 weeks or so were kind of a wash in his season.

He looks slower and less bouncy after the injury. So could be AJ Griffin 2.0 with possibly more passing skills.

Don't know his injury history details but my impression is that Whitehead is a big injury risk going forward.

[Dalek]

Saw Whitehead play a few times. Good perimeter shooter, supposedly a 3 level scorer, but I didn't see mid range much. Basically was 4th option, low usage on Duke. By the end was elbow and corner 3 pt shooter on the floor. Good defensive upside. I would need to see his handles more in traffic and how he goes left. Workouts will be huge factor for him. Basically, first 6 weeks or so were kind of a wash in his season.

He looks slower and less bouncy after the injury. So could be AJ Griffin 2.0 with possibly more passing skills.

I am huge fan of AJ Griffin so even with the less bounce, Dariq is a rotation guard worthy. I am by no means sold on Whitehead, but he seems like the forgotten player in the draft who actually shot above 40% on threes and was highly ranked. Plus he played on Duke which kind of suppresses player's games. I expect him to climb after draft workouts.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Whitehead and Hawkins should definitely be in play for us. Athletic shooting guards is exactly what this team should be looking for.

Whitehead is a bad risk to me. Didn't do anything well other than shoot, seems like someone thin enough to be permanently abused on defense and Monteverde/Duke produce a fair share of overrated NBA crap.

Hawkins I like but don't think he's all that athletic. I believe he will absolutely be a bad defender in the NBA and I think that's a non-starter for the Raptors.

[tecumseh18]

He's largely just taking above the break 3s. %s are likely going to look bad on those for younger players.. Time will tell on that, but rebounding tends to translate. I'm not sure how we can grade Gleague defense, especially on the Ignite. They get back on D, which is more than most Gleague teams. These Ignite kids are all projects. But Miller's absolutely a first rounder in this draft.

Is it fair to want to see a few Ignite draftees really solidify their position in the NBA before taking a risk in drafting one? Although tbf I wouldn't mind Jaden Hardy.

[WuTang_CMB]

Saw Whitehead play a few times. Good perimeter shooter, supposedly a 3 level scorer, but I didn't see mid range much. Basically was 4th option, low usage on Duke. By the end was elbow and corner 3 pt shooter on the floor. Good defensive upside. I would need to see his handles more in traffic and how he goes left. Workouts will be huge factor for him. Basically, first 6 weeks or so were kind of a wash in his season.

His game is underwhelming to me. I see him in the 20's