[Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m

[YogurtProducer]

Mamu is soft as hell, we make CMB and Scottie guard the 5’s when he’s on the court. Jaylin Williams is as physical as they come.

Disagree about him being soft, they like using him out on the perimeter because of his mobility. Also has clearly been working so far when looking at his DRTG. I would also much rather have Mamu this year, Jaylin Williams is at 5.6 ppg on 50 TS%. Some "physical" play isn't making up for being that much of a liability offensively.

Useless stat.

Gradey Dick has a better DRTG than Scottie Barnes.

If you think we’re perfectly fine with Mamu as our back up 5 then I have nothing more to say on this lol.

Well Mamu is an above average backup so you essentially want us to have one of the best 6th men in the league?

IDK why you are writing off Mamu's DRTG. If he was such a liability defensively that would mean his DRTG should reflect that, no?

Our starters with Mamu isntead of Poeltl have a 100ORTG and 89DRTG which shows our team has performed well with Mamu as the 5 (or as the 4, with Barnes at the 5, whatever you prefer).

I am just saying, if Mamu is such a liability, why are we winning his minutes? And if we are winning his minutes, why are we in such a rush to replace him?

It just doesn't add up.

[PushDaRock]

Mamu is soft as hell, we make CMB and Scottie guard the 5’s when he’s on the court. Jaylin Williams is as physical as they come.

Disagree about him being soft, they like using him out on the perimeter because of his mobility. Also has clearly been working so far when looking at his DRTG. I would also much rather have Mamu this year, Jaylin Williams is at 5.6 ppg on 50 TS%. Some "physical" play isn't making up for being that much of a liability offensively.

Right? People seem to be ignoring that Mamu does some things well and others less well. That is what a back up is.

But yeah, 35% shooting Jaylin Williams is better

Honestly outside of the elite backups like Oknongwu, or Naz Reid, I really don't think most guys would make a significant difference. Like if we had Goga instead of Mamu, we probably are still 15-10.

At the end of the day, Mamu is putting up 18/8/3 per 36 on 62.6TS%. You really can't expect much more from your backup 5.

I understand the whining in the Post Gasol/Ibaka years, I was right there with them. I just don't understand it this year when we finally have a really good back-up big and one on a bargain deal too.

[YogurtProducer]

I’m looking at our playoff peers. Bucks aren’t in the picture and I thought Philly was pretty obvious, Embiid is damaged goods.

Okay, so you hyper focus on 6 teams, and ignore 23 of them to fit your agenda. Got it.

I’d love to have Jaylin Williams on my team. Are you smoking something?

Jaylin Williams is not good. He is a 3rd big.

JV is more than fine as a back up for their team.

I agree. But he isn't better than Mamu. Similiar guys at this point. JV is a bigger body who is better under the rim, Mamu is a more fluid athlete who is a better shooter.

Adams is a great back up big.

Never said he wasn't

You can make all the excuses you want for this FO. We’re going half a decade without a quality back up 7 footer now.

Not making any excuses. I am being realistic by showing you there is not many good backup bigs. We obviously value different things in our players than other teams do. We obviously do not want "big back up C's" who in important games get ran off the court because they don't provide shooting or defense.

This team has been very obvious in their team building. If you can get ran off the court, you don't play for Toronto.

[kalel123]

Context matters. The Raps were without a C. Acquiring one, which is difficult in the first place, would have cost a hell of a lot more than the 2024 FRP they gave up for Yak, if they were interested in any of KAT, Bam, Allen, & Mobley. Duren and Ware were unknowns, hence going at the 13th and 15th draft slots. The rest are all comparable in terms of overall impact or worse than Yak.

I think you are missing the point that all those teams have more than one. We have Yak, his broken back, and no one.

The Raps FO, has decided they don't want to invest heavily in a position where most true C's are limited to playing just that role. Especially a role that was in significant decline until recently. A lot of C's still can get played off the floor at critical moments of the game. So instead they have invested in players that can fill in multiple roles (Mogbo & CMB).

And they been failing miserably as a result. All ideas are great in theory until tested. Their ideas have been tested and failed.

[YogurtProducer]

Disagree about him being soft, they like using him out on the perimeter because of his mobility. Also has clearly been working so far when looking at his DRTG. I would also much rather have Mamu this year, Jaylin Williams is at 5.6 ppg on 50 TS%. Some "physical" play isn't making up for being that much of a liability offensively.

Right? People seem to be ignoring that Mamu does some things well and others less well. That is what a back up is.

But yeah, 35% shooting Jaylin Williams is better

Honestly outside of the elite backups like Oknongwu, or Naz Reid, I really don't think most guys would make a significant difference. Like if we had Goga instead of Mamu, we probably are still 15-10.

At the end of the day, Mamu is putting up 18/8/3 per 36 on 62.6TS%. You really can't expect much more from your backup 5.

I understand the whining in the Post Gasol/Ibaka years, I was right there with them. I just don't understand it this year when we finally have a really good back-up big and one on a bargain deal too.

I mean fair enough.

But yeah, Mamu has been great. There are only a few guys on this team who have played well all year in their roles, Mamu is one.

Scottie as the hub
Mamu as the backup C
RJ as the 2nd option

Everyone else has been up and down.

[YogurtProducer]

I think you are missing the point that all those teams have more than one. We have Yak, his broken back, and no one.

The Raps FO, has decided they don't want to invest heavily in a position where most true C's are limited to playing just that role. Especially a role that was in significant decline until recently. A lot of C's still can get played off the floor at critical moments of the game. So instead they have invested in players that can fill in multiple roles (Mogbo & CMB).

And they been failing miserably as a result. All ideas are great in theory until tested. Their ideas have been tested and failed.

I mean, even if we had good backup C play from 2021-2024ish we still don't get significantly better.

The whole idea a backup C has held us back monumentally is a flawed approach

[earthtone]

I think you are missing the point that all those teams have more than one. We have Yak, his broken back, and no one.

The Raps FO, has decided they don't want to invest heavily in a position where most true C's are limited to playing just that role. Especially a role that was in significant decline until recently. A lot of C's still can get played off the floor at critical moments of the game. So instead they have invested in players that can fill in multiple roles (Mogbo & CMB).

And they been failing miserably as a result. All ideas are great in theory until tested. Their ideas have been tested and failed.

We're at the tail end of our rebuilding process and are currently the 4th seed with a 15-10 record. I'm not sure how that's 'failing miserably'

[kalel123]

Oh the great tanking strategy. Years of bottoming out that has worked for so many teams.

Raps have employed the tanking strategy strategically, and it has worked out alright for them. It got them Barnes.

I would take the Raps drafting strategy over most organizations in the league.

LOL @ calling backing ass backwards into a tank being "strategic". Tanking multiple times and having only one player to show for it is not doing alright. Only thing half-assed tanking "strategy" has done is ensuring we get low enough pick to miss out on cream of the crop for a given year and we get nothing to show for it for the last few.

The best examples of strategic tanking is what the Spurs did when they lucked into Duncan. What the Raps did the when they lucked into Barnes. What the Pacers are doing this year, and what the Celtics should be doing this year.

With how the lottery odds are structured, it is just harder to position the team for a high level of success in the draft.

And the worst example is when Raptors tried to tank in the most miserable manner last year, failed, and only got 9th pick out of it. Or when Raptors tanked and still lost a pick to the Spurs. Or how they didn't tank when they should have, got bounced out of play-in, and was left with a Gradey Dick in a Wemby sweepstakes where those decisions had downstream impact to examples mentioned earlier?

How convenient you leave out the entire truth of it and just leave in the most convenient one for yourself.

[HumbleRen]

Disagree about him being soft, they like using him out on the perimeter because of his mobility. Also has clearly been working so far when looking at his DRTG. I would also much rather have Mamu this year, Jaylin Williams is at 5.6 ppg on 50 TS%. Some "physical" play isn't making up for being that much of a liability offensively.

Useless stat.

Gradey Dick has a better DRTG than Scottie Barnes.

If you think we’re perfectly fine with Mamu as our back up 5 then I have nothing more to say on this lol.

Well Mamu is an above average backup so you essentially want us to have one of the best 6th men in the league?

IDK why you are writing off Mamu's DRTG. If he was such a liability defensively that would mean his DRTG should reflect that, no?

Our starters with Mamu isntead of Poeltl have a 100ORTG and 89DRTG which shows our team has performed well with Mamu as the 5 (or as the 4, with Barnes at the 5, whatever you prefer).

I am just saying, if Mamu is such a liability, why are we winning his minutes? And if we are winning his minutes, why are we in such a rush to replace him?

It just doesn't add up.

Who said anything about him being a liability. He’s a great bench player, he’s just not a back up big.

There’s just no way you think we don’t need a traditional back up big. I refuse to believe you’re this obtuse.

[YogurtProducer]

Useless stat.

Gradey Dick has a better DRTG than Scottie Barnes.

If you think we’re perfectly fine with Mamu as our back up 5 then I have nothing more to say on this lol.

Well Mamu is an above average backup so you essentially want us to have one of the best 6th men in the league?

IDK why you are writing off Mamu's DRTG. If he was such a liability defensively that would mean his DRTG should reflect that, no?

Our starters with Mamu isntead of Poeltl have a 100ORTG and 89DRTG which shows our team has performed well with Mamu as the 5 (or as the 4, with Barnes at the 5, whatever you prefer).

I am just saying, if Mamu is such a liability, why are we winning his minutes? And if we are winning his minutes, why are we in such a rush to replace him?

It just doesn't add up.

Who said anything about him being a liability. He’s a great bench player, he’s just not a back up big.

There’s just no way you think we don’t need a traditional back up big. I refuse to believe you’re this obtuse.

I’d like one, I don’t think we need one. Plenty of teams win without one including the last like 4 champions.

It would be a luxury to have one in addition to what we got. But, I don’t think having a traditional big is some absolute must have thing.

And FWIW - I’ve been fine with the idea of swapping a SG for a C as we don’t really a have a 3rd string center you even slightly feel comfortable with. But I wouldn’t be looking to play them over Mamu, and if you’re down to your 3rd C you’re **** anyways.

For whatever reason this board thinks we are the only team who struggles to fill injuries

[YogurtProducer]

LOL @ calling backing ass backwards into a tank being "strategic". Tanking multiple times and having only one player to show for it is not doing alright. Only thing half-assed tanking "strategy" has done is ensuring we get low enough pick to miss out on cream of the crop for a given year and we get nothing to show for it for the last few.

The best examples of strategic tanking is what the Spurs did when they lucked into Duncan. What the Raps did the when they lucked into Barnes. What the Pacers are doing this year, and what the Celtics should be doing this year.

With how the lottery odds are structured, it is just harder to position the team for a high level of success in the draft.

And the worst example is when Raptors tried to tank in the most miserable manner last year, failed, and only got 9th pick out of it. Or when Raptors tanked and still lost a pick to the Spurs. Or how they didn't tank when they should have, got bounced out of play-in, and was left with a Gradey Dick in a Wemby sweepstakes where those decisions had downstream impact to examples mentioned earlier?

How convenient you leave out the entire truth of it and just leave in the most convenient one for yourself.

Jesus man you guys gotta get the **** over it.

[JB7]

LOL @ calling backing ass backwards into a tank being "strategic". Tanking multiple times and having only one player to show for it is not doing alright. Only thing half-assed tanking "strategy" has done is ensuring we get low enough pick to miss out on cream of the crop for a given year and we get nothing to show for it for the last few.

The best examples of strategic tanking is what the Spurs did when they lucked into Duncan. What the Raps did the when they lucked into Barnes. What the Pacers are doing this year, and what the Celtics should be doing this year.

With how the lottery odds are structured, it is just harder to position the team for a high level of success in the draft.

And the worst example is when Raptors tried to tank in the most miserable manner last year, failed, and only got 9th pick out of it. Or when Raptors tanked and still lost a pick to the Spurs. Or how they didn't tank when they should have, got bounced out of play-in, and was left with a Gradey Dick in a Wemby sweepstakes where those decisions had downstream impact to examples mentioned earlier?

How convenient you leave out the entire truth of it and just leave in the most convenient one for yourself.

I wouldn’t consider last year’s tank job a complete failure. Weren’t they like one ball away from moving up into the top 4 in the draft? And they got a decent pick at 9, all while not stripping their team down to bottom out. It enabled them to rebound nicely this season.

The tank job in the year they gave up the pick to the Spurs was more due to circumstances that were partially out of their control (injuries, trades, other). They didn’t mind tanking then because the draft was so weak, and giving up a 7/8 pick was not going to be a significant player.

The Wemby draft was about Wemby. And what chance would they really have at getting him?

[HumbleRen]

Well Mamu is an above average backup so you essentially want us to have one of the best 6th men in the league?

IDK why you are writing off Mamu's DRTG. If he was such a liability defensively that would mean his DRTG should reflect that, no?

Our starters with Mamu isntead of Poeltl have a 100ORTG and 89DRTG which shows our team has performed well with Mamu as the 5 (or as the 4, with Barnes at the 5, whatever you prefer).

I am just saying, if Mamu is such a liability, why are we winning his minutes? And if we are winning his minutes, why are we in such a rush to replace him?

It just doesn't add up.

Who said anything about him being a liability. He’s a great bench player, he’s just not a back up big.

There’s just no way you think we don’t need a traditional back up big. I refuse to believe you’re this obtuse.

I’d like one, I don’t think we need one. Plenty of teams win without one including the last like 4 champions.

It would be a luxury to have one in addition to what we got. But, I don’t think having a traditional big is some absolute must have thing.

And FWIW - I’ve been fine with the idea of swapping a SG for a C as we don’t really a have a 3rd string center you even slightly feel comfortable with. But I wouldn’t be looking to play them over Mamu, and if you’re down to your 3rd C you’re **** anyways.

For whatever reason this board thinks we are the only team who struggles to fill injuries

Well unfortunately for us, we need a legit 7 footer rim deterrent that’s significantly better than Poeltl if you want to keep IQ and RJ as your backcourt.

[Tha Cynic]

I would take any of those bigs over Poeltl and so should everyone eles lol. This team would improve over time with them

I don't know about WCJ/Goga. Cheaper obviously, but WCJ has been super injury prone. KP, meh... but OO is looking good.

Yeah I would take OO without even thinking twice.

Every other one is questionable once you consider salaries.

Duren - cheap this year, but will balloon to like $40M next year.
KAT - $53M
Bam - $40M
Mobley - $46M (plus $20M for Allen)
Kristaps - $31M

Poeltl might not be the best player on this list (not even might, he certainly is not), but he might be the best value. In a salary cap league that matters. If we had any of those guys it was not a simple swap for Poeltl. It would mean Poeltl + other assets.

Like say we did Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for KAT. Are we any better tomorrow?
Or Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for Bam + Ware - are we better?

If we are, it is minimally so and the complaint about a backup C would just transition to a new hole (not having a 2nd wing scorer).

Its a salary cap league. Every team has holes. You cant fill them all.

Yes to both

[HumbleRen]

I don't know about WCJ/Goga. Cheaper obviously, but WCJ has been super injury prone. KP, meh... but OO is looking good.

Yeah I would take OO without even thinking twice.

Every other one is questionable once you consider salaries.

Duren - cheap this year, but will balloon to like $40M next year.
KAT - $53M
Bam - $40M
Mobley - $46M (plus $20M for Allen)
Kristaps - $31M

Poeltl might not be the best player on this list (not even might, he certainly is not), but he might be the best value. In a salary cap league that matters. If we had any of those guys it was not a simple swap for Poeltl. It would mean Poeltl + other assets.

Like say we did Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for KAT. Are we any better tomorrow?
Or Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for Bam + Ware - are we better?

If we are, it is minimally so and the complaint about a backup C would just transition to a new hole (not having a 2nd wing scorer).

Its a salary cap league. Every team has holes. You cant fill them all.

Yes to both

Like without a doubt we’re better.

We’re getting all nba caliber players in return for dudes who will never sniff an all star game in their life.

[Tha Cynic]

Yeah I would take OO without even thinking twice.

Every other one is questionable once you consider salaries.

Duren - cheap this year, but will balloon to like $40M next year.
KAT - $53M
Bam - $40M
Mobley - $46M (plus $20M for Allen)
Kristaps - $31M

Poeltl might not be the best player on this list (not even might, he certainly is not), but he might be the best value. In a salary cap league that matters. If we had any of those guys it was not a simple swap for Poeltl. It would mean Poeltl + other assets.

Like say we did Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for KAT. Are we any better tomorrow?
Or Poeltl + RJ + Agbaji for Bam + Ware - are we better?

If we are, it is minimally so and the complaint about a backup C would just transition to a new hole (not having a 2nd wing scorer).

Its a salary cap league. Every team has holes. You cant fill them all.

Yes to both

Like without a doubt we’re better.

We’re getting all nba caliber players in return for dudes who will never sniff an all star game in their life.

Take a few of Kats worst seasons and compare to Ingrams best and Kat’s worst seasons are better than Ingram’s best. He instantly becomes our best scorer and completely replaces RJ and then some. Obviously we would need some better defense but I feel that will be easier to replace and Kats offense more than makes up for it. Not to mention how much easier life becomes on offense for Barnes and Ingram.

Bam and Ware basically solve all your big man issues and gives you one of your better defensive front courts. You can probably insert a more offensive player at the 2 and get away with it.

[YogurtProducer]

Yes to both

Like without a doubt we’re better.

We’re getting all nba caliber players in return for dudes who will never sniff an all star game in their life.

Take a few of Kats worst seasons and compare to Ingrams best and Kat’s worst seasons are better than Ingram’s best. He instantly becomes our best scorer and completely replaces RJ and then some. Obviously we would need some better defense but I feel that will be easier to replace and Kats offense more than makes up for it. Not to mention how much easier life becomes on offense for Barnes and Ingram.

Bam and Ware basically solve all your big man issues and gives you one of your better defensive front courts. You can probably insert a more offensive player at the 2 and get away with it.

I completely disagree. All you do is open up one hole to fill another.

RJ and Poeltl have both shown to be very important to our offence, and if you lose both and only get back one guy you now open up a new hole.

Like I said, at most there is minor improvement. You don’t suddenly become a contender, AND, now you’re paying $50+M for a center rotation

KAT especially is never going to be a winning guy. You simply can’t have negative defence from your C and expect to accomplish anything. Especially when you’re also now starting Dick at the 2. KAT also might score more than Ingram, but he isn’t a better scorer. He would likely flourish with Barnes, but he’s still the same soft no defence center who gets destroyed every April and May.

Bam makes $50M next year. There is no world you can build a contender paying a guy like Bam $50M. He doesn’t bring more to the offence than RJ does, and he isn’t enough of a defensive upgrade.

I’m taking RJ + Jak > Bam every damn day. Especially when they’re cheaper combined. If we were in more of a consolidation phase with excess bench talent then sure. But you already see what a lack of depth does to us.


This isn’t a knock on Bam or KAT more so I think you guys are completely undervaluing how good RJ and Poeltl are. You don’t trade for guys like KAT/Bam and pay them Doncic money when they’re giving you not anywhere near Doncic value.

[HumbleRen]

Like without a doubt we’re better.

We’re getting all nba caliber players in return for dudes who will never sniff an all star game in their life.

Take a few of Kats worst seasons and compare to Ingrams best and Kat’s worst seasons are better than Ingram’s best. He instantly becomes our best scorer and completely replaces RJ and then some. Obviously we would need some better defense but I feel that will be easier to replace and Kats offense more than makes up for it. Not to mention how much easier life becomes on offense for Barnes and Ingram.

Bam and Ware basically solve all your big man issues and gives you one of your better defensive front courts. You can probably insert a more offensive player at the 2 and get away with it.

I completely disagree. All you do is open up one hole to fill another.

I’m taking RJ + Jak > Bam every damn day. Especially when they’re cheaper combined. If we were in more of a consolidation phase with excess bench talent then sure. But you already see what a lack of depth does to us.

Good grief man.

Turning down arguably the best defensive duo in the league to stick with RJ and Poeltl. Aiight man lol.

[MiamiSPX]

Bam makes $50M next year. There is no world you can build a contender paying a guy like Bam $50M. He doesn’t bring more to the offence than RJ does, and he isn’t enough of a defensive upgrade.

I’m taking RJ + Jak > Bam every damn day. Especially when they’re cheaper combined. If we were in more of a consolidation phase with excess bench talent then sure. But you already see what a lack of depth does to us.

You might want to look up Bam's accolades. He already has more than RJ and Poeltl will ever amass in their combined careers. There is no world where the Heat would take RJ, Poeltl and Agbaji for Bam alone, let alone for Bam and Ware (who likely goes top 3 in a redraft).

[HumbleRen]

Bam makes $50M next year. There is no world you can build a contender paying a guy like Bam $50M. He doesn’t bring more to the offence than RJ does, and he isn’t enough of a defensive upgrade.

I’m taking RJ + Jak > Bam every damn day. Especially when they’re cheaper combined. If we were in more of a consolidation phase with excess bench talent then sure. But you already see what a lack of depth does to us.

You might want to look up Bam's accolades. He already has more than RJ and Poeltl will ever amass in their combined careers. There is no world where the Heat would take RJ, Poeltl and Agbaji for Bam alone, let alone for Bam and Ware (who likely goes top 3 in a redraft).

Utterly baffling lol.

An all nba caliber center who’s younger than Poeltl that’s been in 70+ playoff games in multiple deep runs for 2 guys who have done nothing of note in their careers??

That might be up there with people who used to say maxey would never be better than FVV.