Raps vs Wiz Preseason -Sun Oct 12 3PM EST

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Five threes a night @27%....He's a C. Just accept it at this point. Tell him to start dunking.

[YogurtProducer]

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Just saying “the max” is also ignoring there is like 5 different maxes based on a variety of factors.

Reality is he’s like the 37th highest paid player in the league. Putting aspirations on him to be a max player in the same light as other true “max guys” (aka - guys not on rookie extensions) was setting yourself up to be disappointed

If you take a look at the rookie max guys, would you take Scottie over any of them?

Well, ya. There are some bad ones like Ayton, Zion, MPJ, etc.

You obviously are taking the Paolo’s and Mobleys, but it’s a lot murkier with the Garlands or Adebayos.

There are guys paid more than Scottie that shouldn’t be, and guys below that are paid less that shouldn’t be.

He’s probably pretty accurately paid, maybe +/- a few million, but he’s not a BAD contract by any means. In a proper role that suits him I think it’ll be fine. And that’s ignoring he still at least has the potential/chance to improve offensively.

[MEDIC]

They have to retain Olivier Sarr now for the RS opener after that ending of the game. Everyone seemed so happy for him lol

I actually like what I have seen from him. Seems like a servicable 3rd big. Super mobile, blocks shots, decent at screening and rolling, lob threat.

905 should be very solid this season. I will have to grab some tickets for the fam.

[PushDaRock]

Just saying “the max” is also ignoring there is like 5 different maxes based on a variety of factors.

Reality is he’s like the 37th highest paid player in the league. Putting aspirations on him to be a max player in the same light as other true “max guys” (aka - guys not on rookie extensions) was setting yourself up to be disappointed

If you take a look at the rookie max guys, would you take Scottie over any of them?

Well, ya. There are some bad ones like Ayton, Zion, MPJ, etc.

You obviously are taking the Paolo’s and Mobleys, but it’s a lot murkier with the Garlands or Adebayos.

There are guys paid more than Scottie that shouldn’t be, and guys below that are paid less that shouldn’t be.

He’s probably pretty accurately paid, maybe +/- a few million, but he’s not a BAD contract by any means. In a proper role that suits him I think it’ll be fine. And that’s ignoring he still at least has the potential/chance to improve offensively.

Ayton is not on a max deal anymore. I'm taking Zion over Scottie, he's been the far better player when available. He's been an actual elite player in terms of production and there's still upside there but that obviously comes with a ton of risk. MPJ vs Scottie is closer. MPJ has been a 3rd option on a championship team and his elite shooting translates over onto any team, we don't really know if Scottie can be that.

Garland and Bam are clearly better players than him. Those guys have been productive on really good teams. Scottie has really only put up decent raw numbers on dumpster fire teams.

[MoneyBall]

If you take a look at the rookie max guys, would you take Scottie over any of them?

Well, ya. There are some bad ones like Ayton, Zion, MPJ, etc.

You obviously are taking the Paolo’s and Mobleys, but it’s a lot murkier with the Garlands or Adebayos.

There are guys paid more than Scottie that shouldn’t be, and guys below that are paid less that shouldn’t be.

He’s probably pretty accurately paid, maybe +/- a few million, but he’s not a BAD contract by any means. In a proper role that suits him I think it’ll be fine. And that’s ignoring he still at least has the potential/chance to improve offensively.

Ayton is not on a max deal anymore. I'm taking Zion over Scottie, he's been the far better player when available. He's been an actual elite player in terms of production and there's still upside there but that obviously comes with a ton of risk. MPJ vs Scottie is closer. MPJ has been a 3rd option on a championship team and his elite shooting translates over onto any team, we don't really know if Scottie can be that.

Garland and Bam are clearly better players than him. Those guys have been productive on really good teams. Scottie has really only put up decent raw numbers on dumpster fire teams.

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

[PushDaRock]

Well, ya. There are some bad ones like Ayton, Zion, MPJ, etc.

You obviously are taking the Paolo’s and Mobleys, but it’s a lot murkier with the Garlands or Adebayos.

There are guys paid more than Scottie that shouldn’t be, and guys below that are paid less that shouldn’t be.

He’s probably pretty accurately paid, maybe +/- a few million, but he’s not a BAD contract by any means. In a proper role that suits him I think it’ll be fine. And that’s ignoring he still at least has the potential/chance to improve offensively.

Ayton is not on a max deal anymore. I'm taking Zion over Scottie, he's been the far better player when available. He's been an actual elite player in terms of production and there's still upside there but that obviously comes with a ton of risk. MPJ vs Scottie is closer. MPJ has been a 3rd option on a championship team and his elite shooting translates over onto any team, we don't really know if Scottie can be that.

Garland and Bam are clearly better players than him. Those guys have been productive on really good teams. Scottie has really only put up decent raw numbers on dumpster fire teams.

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

[YogurtProducer]

Ayton is not on a max deal anymore. I'm taking Zion over Scottie, he's been the far better player when available. He's been an actual elite player in terms of production and there's still upside there but that obviously comes with a ton of risk. MPJ vs Scottie is closer. MPJ has been a 3rd option on a championship team and his elite shooting translates over onto any team, we don't really know if Scottie can be that.

Garland and Bam are clearly better players than him. Those guys have been productive on really good teams. Scottie has really only put up decent raw numbers on dumpster fire teams.

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

Sure, and we also can’t ignore that Scottie was a big piece of a 48-win team as a rookie OR that guys like Bam/Garland (hell, even Mobley), are in 10000x better situations in roles that fit them more than Barnes is.

If you only focus on raw PPG and ts% then yes, he’s a bad piece. Unfortunately for your argument, hes out up better #’s in those areas before, and his best qualities are his playmaing and defence which doesn’t show up in raw PPG

[PushDaRock]

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

Sure, and we also can’t ignore that Scottie was a big piece of a 48-win team as a rookie OR that guys like Bam/Garland (hell, even Mobley), are in 10000x better situations in roles that fit them more than Barnes is.

If you only focus on raw PPG and ts% then yes, he’s a bad piece. Unfortunately for your argument, hes out up better #’s in those areas before, and his best qualities are his playmaing and defence which doesn’t show up in raw PPG

Big piece = 5th option on a 48 win team.

If we are happy with that from a Max Player, I guess you can justify the salary.

[MoneyBall]

Ayton is not on a max deal anymore. I'm taking Zion over Scottie, he's been the far better player when available. He's been an actual elite player in terms of production and there's still upside there but that obviously comes with a ton of risk. MPJ vs Scottie is closer. MPJ has been a 3rd option on a championship team and his elite shooting translates over onto any team, we don't really know if Scottie can be that.

Garland and Bam are clearly better players than him. Those guys have been productive on really good teams. Scottie has really only put up decent raw numbers on dumpster fire teams.

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

[Buff]

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

Yeah people want the team to tank AND every young player to take a leap. Otherwise they garbage.

[PushDaRock]

Not just raw numbers, but his advanced metrics were on the rise until last season. Improving in those metrics whilst still on bad teams is actually a point in his favour rather than against him.

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

How is that a positive putting up good/decent "raw" numbers inefficiently on a bad team? That's called stat padding.

[PushDaRock]

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

Yeah people want the team to tank AND every young player to take a leap. Otherwise they garbage.

Who said anything about a leap? Just don't take a massive step back instead after you get a Max extension.

I'm open to the possibility he bounces back this season, but the excuses need to stop. It's always someone or something else's fault other than Scottie.

[Buff]

Who said anything about a leap? Just don't take a massive step back instead after you get a Max extension.

I'm open to the possibility he bounces back this season, but the excuses need to stop. It's always someone or something else's fault other than Scottie.

Context matters, in a season where you come to tank from day one you can not have too many good players. And they had already sat him down the last tank half-season. So the plan last season (I think) was for him to practice stuff that he wasn't good at which will get him better and also would make sure we lost a bunch of games.

All I ask is that we erase last season from consideration and see if he can productive as we try and win games with the role of #1 solidly covered.

[JB7]

Raps are 3-1, and the one loss was to a Denver team giving effort. Denver will be pushing OKC for the top spot this season.

And while it is only preseason games, where 3rd stringers actually get some playing time, looking at the Sixers, Heat and Grizzlies records (all 0-3 or 0-5 in the Heat case), it looks like it could be very rough starts to the season.

[PushDaRock]

Who said anything about a leap? Just don't take a massive step back instead after you get a Max extension.

I'm open to the possibility he bounces back this season, but the excuses need to stop. It's always someone or something else's fault other than Scottie.

Context matters, in a season where you come to tank from day one you can not have too many good players. And they had already sat him down the last tank half-season. So the plan last season (I think) was for him to practice stuff that he wasn't good at which will get him better and also would make sure we lost a bunch of games.

All I ask is that we erase last season from consideration and see if he can productive as we try and win games with the role of #1 solidly covered.

Might as well hand out mulligans to everyone for last season then.

[Buff]

Might as well hand out mulligans to everyone for last season then.

Pretty much, yeah. Wasted awful season, the dark side of tanking.

[MoneyBall]

Yes and we can't ignore that last season happened. 19 ppg on 52 TS% is horrific.

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

How is that a positive putting up good/decent "raw" numbers inefficiently on a bad team? That's called stat padding.

I can't tell if you truly don't understand what I'm saying, or if this is your way of trying to get out of a bad take.

I mentioned that his advanced metrics improved even while playing on bad teams, which makes it even more impressive since it's tougher to do that without strong teammates.

[PushDaRock]

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

How is that a positive putting up good/decent "raw" numbers inefficiently on a bad team? That's called stat padding.

I can't tell if you truly don't understand what I'm saying, or if this is your way of trying to get out of a bad take.

I mentioned that his advanced metrics improved even while playing on bad teams, which makes it even more impressive since it's tougher to do that without strong teammates.

lol no I don't know what you're trying to say.

[Shakril]

You said he really only put up good numbers on bad teams. That's actually a point in his favour, not against him. It's more difficult to put up high effeciency on a team like last season's Raptors. Last season was a step back, but it doesn't really tell us where he's at now with this new roster.

How is that a positive putting up good/decent "raw" numbers inefficiently on a bad team? That's called stat padding.

I can't tell if you truly don't understand what I'm saying, or if this is your way of trying to get out of a bad take.

I mentioned that his advanced metrics improved even while playing on bad teams, which makes it even more impressive since it's tougher to do that without strong teammates.

No sorry.

First, we were not that bad, like a wizards team were.
Second, its not about numbers in itself, but progress, visible progress. And he clearly still lacks in maturity and decisionmaking, and that hasnt improved whatsoever. I wont even talk about his offensive arsenal and efficency, which isnt great either.

At this point, its just a coping mechanism, to not acknowledge that.

[YogurtProducer]

How is that a positive putting up good/decent "raw" numbers inefficiently on a bad team? That's called stat padding.

I can't tell if you truly don't understand what I'm saying, or if this is your way of trying to get out of a bad take.

I mentioned that his advanced metrics improved even while playing on bad teams, which makes it even more impressive since it's tougher to do that without strong teammates.

lol no I don't know what you're trying to say.

Come on man his point is quite clear.

He is saying a positive to take from his last year is that his advanced metrics saw improvement, which is impressive on a garbage team like we had last year.

I don't even know what metrics he is referring to, but it isn't rocket science to recognize his position.