Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[Reignman]

I don't think Barnes is a great defender, he will be very similar to DeRozan on D, promising, but not elite (or just above average). If we are drafting him, most likely we will trade Bargnani to mask their defense, and similar to how we build around VC and T-Mac. However, I don't see neither of them better than VC nor T-Mac.

I don't know, IMO, Barnes is a far superior defender to Demar (at the same stage) in a far superior conference.

Just watch him play, he has great footwork on defense. I don't think we could say the same for Demar at USC who defended more with athleticism than defensive IQ.

[sunny]

I don't think Barnes is a great defender, he will be very similar to DeRozan on D, promising, but not elite (or just above average). If we are drafting him, most likely we will trade Bargnani to mask their defense, and similar to how we build around VC and T-Mac. However, I don't see neither of them better than VC nor T-Mac.

I don't know, IMO, Barnes is a far superior defender to Demar (at the same stage) in a far superior conference.

Just watch him play, he has great footwork on defense. I don't think we could say the same for Demar at USC who defended more with athleticism than defensive IQ.

FWIW Demar actually played in a better conference than Barnes.
Barnes is a very solid player, but he has still not dominated like he should have. I like him a lot but have not seen anything that has really wowed me.

[Alfred]

Let's take a look at Barnes' efficiency over his past few "improved" games:

vs. FSU - 10 FGA/18 pts (this is a legitimately good performance)
vs. Maryland - 23 FGA/21 pts (poor efficiency)
vs. NC State - 17 FGA/16 pts (bad)
vs. BC 14 FGA/10 pts (really bad)
vs. Wake Forest 20 FGA/17 pts (also very bad)
vs. Clemson 13 FGA/20 pts (good!)
vs. Duke 8 FGA/9 pts (poor)
vs. Florida State 15 FGA/17 pts (meh)
vs. BC 15 FGA/26 pts (very good!)
vs. NC State 16 FGA/25 pts (also very good!)

And past that, you get into the first half of the season, where he had a bunch of really bad games, with only a sparse sprinkling of decent ones. It's not like he's flipped the switch here people. He's chucking to get his points.

[Rude Boy 1]

Glad to see Barnes keep putting on a show. I'm calling it now, if Barnes falls out of the top 3 then someone is getting a STEAL. BTW, Barnes @ 13 is the most laughable thing I've heard in a long time, what a joke.

Barnes is my 2nd pick if Irving is off the board. Glad I didn't jump off the bandwagon and kept him in my top 5.

lol...

based on what?

Here's what Barnes looks like to me.

13.9ppg 5.6rebs 1.4 ast 1.9to .406fg% .321 3p%

Those numbers say nothing to me other than "Hype Made Me the Player I Am" Does he have potential? no doubt but I think this time with our top three/four pick lets just get the guy who is playing well not the guy we think may become the player... We haven't had much luck with that at all.

[5DOM]

The thing with Barnes is that he is passive and a lot of times he looks like the 3rd or 4th best player on his team. What he has done until now to deserve to be drafted before Williams, Sullinger and Joneses I dont know. And I honestly don't get the Ray Allen comparison/target for him. People keep talking about his ability to shoot 3s but the fact is that despite good form he's really inconsistent (just like most of offensive skills). Right now he should be closer to the 9th pick than the 2nd pick. His stocks can obviously skyrocket after the Duke game and the upcoming tournament though.

[Rude Boy 1]

Not sold at all, its like people see him have one good game and forget about the 5 previous to that. I wonder if our fans actually want to get better or if they have gotten used to drafting guys who are extremely average while passing on the real studs.

[Kevin Willis]

Not sold at all, its like people see him have one good game and forget about the 5 previous to that. I wonder if our fans actually want to get better or if they have gotten used to drafting guys who are extremely average while passing on the real studs.

Who are the real studs in this upcoming draft?

[Reignman]

Glad to see Barnes keep putting on a show. I'm calling it now, if Barnes falls out of the top 3 then someone is getting a STEAL. BTW, Barnes @ 13 is the most laughable thing I've heard in a long time, what a joke.

Barnes is my 2nd pick if Irving is off the board. Glad I didn't jump off the bandwagon and kept him in my top 5.

lol...

based on what?

Here's what Barnes looks like to me.

13.9ppg 5.6rebs 1.4 ast 1.9to .406fg% .321 3p%

Those numbers say nothing to me other than "Hype Made Me the Player I Am" Does he have potential? no doubt but I think this time with our top three/four pick lets just get the guy who is playing well not the guy we think may become the player... We haven't had much luck with that at all.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I think Barnes is going to make a lot of people feel foolish if he drops down to far.

Those numbers aren't great and when I look at Barnes' game I'm not looking at numbers. I look at things like the form on his shot, his footwork, his ability to hit clutch shots, his work ethic, his athleticism, his ceiling, etc.

All of those things lead me to believe he'll be one of the better, if not the best, player from this class.

In a couple of years we can talk, if I'm wrong I hope you remind me because if I'm right I will definitely remind you.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Do Conference tourneys begin next week?

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Do Conference tourneys begin next week?

Found the answer:

The ACC tournament begins on March 10-13

The SEC tournament is also March 10-13

The Big 12, with Baylor and Perry Jones, is from March 9-12

[5DOM]

I don't think I'll feel foolish at all if Barnes does end up better than Williams, Sullinger and the Joneses. It will be more like feeling disappointed after knowing you folded before seeing the turn and river that would have won you the game. I honestly don't see how anyone can justify picking Barnes 2nd overall based on what he's shown until now, but if you are right, I'll send Colangelo an email to hire you as a scout

[Reignman]

I don't think I'll feel foolish at all if Barnes does end up better than Williams, Sullinger and the Joneses. It will be more like feeling disappointed after knowing you folded before seeing the turn and river that would have won you the game. I honestly don't see how anyone can justify picking Barnes 2nd overall based on what he's shown until now, but if you are right, I'll send Colangelo an email to hire you as a scout

What he's shown and what his stats say are two different things. When it comes to prospects you have to be able differentiate.

Blake Griffin wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Tim Duncan wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Paul Pierce fell in the draft because of the same things Barnes is going through.

Vince Carter was Jamieson's side kick at UNC.

I could go on and on about players that became much better than they looked in their freshmen year.

What I'm looking at is the skills that Barnes has at his disposal and his ceiling if he improves on his weaknesses. He looks like the 2nd best prospect to me.

And you won't have to refer me as a scout, I'd bet money Barnes goes top 5 in this draft.

[TheRealDeal]

Some of you really need to stop looking at the numbers and start watching games before you post. Barnes has had horrible shooting nights where the announcers praised his game because he still looked impressive. Vince Carter only averaged 7 pts as a Freshman at UNC while Barnes is averaging 17.9 points and 6.4 rebounds during UNC's past 10 games. Double-figures in scoring in 14 of 16 games. He's doing it efficiently too, shooting over 44% in nine of those games. Do you think Roy Williams would've called an iso for him with the ACC championship on the line if he didn't believe in his ability to score the basketball? He's been the most clutch player in the nation so that has to count for something. Even RealGM is picking up on it.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1FZPi5pTC

[wanker]

Anyone who thinks Derrick Williams is a better prospect than Harrison Barnes really needs to consider watching a different sport.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Barnes' game winner last night looked professional. He knew he could get his shot, he knew it was going in. He's definitely got the pro swag/edge, and that move looked like it could buy an inch from just about anybody.

I wonder if ET's busting in Philly will hurt Barnes' stock, and if that will help us... but I still think he'll stay in if he's not promised top 3.

[dagger]

Euroleague action today.

Big game for small forward Jan Vesely as Partizan Belgrade hung on for a win - it's last game in the competition as it didn't make the playoff cut.

Vesely had 23 points on 9/12 shooting (including 2/4 behind the arc, 3/6 at the FT line). Also had six boards.

He's been coming on strong, may reclaim his status as a top 5-6 pick in the next mocks.

[TheRealDeal]

..also Barnes doesn't chuck at all. He gets a lot of open 3's that some nights just aren't falling. His stoke is perfect and he's big & has freakishly long enough arms to keep the ball high and shoot over defenders. A lot of his misses are off of offensive rebounds and hustle plays. That's the great thing about his game, you don't have to run plays for him and he'll still score with second chance points or leading the break off of turnovers. A lot of UNC fans think Roy handled him terribly to start the year but he's obviously starting to come around and it's giving HB more confidence. The team finally looks comfortable since Drew transferred, allowing Kendall Marshall to take over the point. Barnes would have looked better as an individual on a different team but he's shown this year that he's a true team player. He just does what he's told, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have star potential.

[Comeatme_Bro]

Euroleague action today.

Big game for small forward Jan Vesely as Partizan Belgrade hung on for a win - it's last game in the competition as it didn't make the playoff cut.

Vesely had 23 points on 9/12 shooting (including 2/4 behind the arc, 3/6 at the FT line). Also had six boards.

He's been coming on strong, may reclaim his status as a top 5-6 pick in the next mocks.

Hmm pretty good performance but I'd still take Barnes over Vesley.

[HeirCanada10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzv ... dded#at=63

Kid is really working hard to recover and get back and just a heads up the final Championship game for March Madness is April 4, does here think he'll be able to return by then or is his only shot is coming out to impress for draft workouts in May/June to get feedback, looks by other teams on where he's likely to get interest from teams in 1st round?

[Reignman]

..also Barnes doesn't chuck at all. He gets a lot of open 3's that some nights just aren't falling. His stoke is perfect and he's big & has freakishly long enough arms to keep the ball high and shoot over defenders. A lot of his misses are off of offensive rebounds and hustle plays. That's the great thing about his game, you don't have to run plays for him and he'll still score with second chance points or leading the break off of turnovers. A lot of UNC fans think Roy handled him terribly to start the year but he's obviously starting to come around and it's giving HB more confidence. The team finally looks comfortable since Drew transferred, allowing Kendall Marshall to take over the point. Barnes would have looked better as an individual on a different team but he's shown this year that he's a true team player. He just does what he's told, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have star potential.

Good post. I completely agree. Barnes may not have met his pre-season hype but there are other factors into his poor play. I know a lot of die hard Tar Heels fans that were calling for Barnes to play with Marshall early in the season.

To go a step further, UNC's offense was terrible in the first 15 games of the season regardless of Barnes. I know they won games but there was no fluidity to their offense.