2025 NBA Draft Prospect Part 2

[Yallbecrazy]

I really don't care about the assist stuff with Ace tbh
Multiple debates online everyday about whether or not Scottie can be that guy or if he has the mentality to carry the offense as a true #1. Not every team is gonna be able to find that elite franchise changing scorer but it never hurts to atleast have someone who understands how to get baskets. Between Scottie and IQ there's enough playmaking, Quick comes back and immediately Gradey is getting better looks again. RJs whole shot diet did a 180 coming from new york I can only imagine the positions they will put Ace in to succeed while being immensely more talented and actually trying on defense

Yeah I never understood that point in terms of the Raps, we don't need anymore play makers, we need more play finishers, more shooters, more guys who can get stuff out of nothing. Bailey's weaknesses aren't the teams weakness, and his strengths are something we desperately need.

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

[Jstock12]

Bailey pumping those BPM numbers up

[ArthurVandelay]

I’m really high on Ace. Never jumped off the train. A few things in recent posts are out of whack:

1) blaming his teammates: outside of Harper the team is terrible. Last year they were 15-17. Had the 342/362 points scored per game in nation. Leading scorers last year were 12.2 ppg (only played 12 games) followed by 10.5, 10.4, 9.1, and 8.3. This year after Harper and Bailey, leading scorers are 7.8, 7.8, and 7.3. Also there are no real shooters on this team outside the big 2 and there is low volume overall, which matches the low percentages lol

2) with teammates like he has, it isn’t a surprise Ace’s assists are trash. Even the assist numbers for Harper seem low given his gravity and ability. I’ve seen some nice passes from Ace in highlights.

3) His advanced stats are weak to start the season but the season is not even half over. Just off the big game last night, his OBPM went from 1.1 to 2.7 and his DBPM went from -0.1 to 0.2 and PER 17.6 to 19.8. His 3pt% jumped almost 3% to 35.2. He had a slow start to the season but he hasn’t played near his abilities. I feel confident his stats will soon better reflect his abilities.

4) he’s always been the man on his team. This year he’s been frequently stuck in a corner as Harper dominates the ball. That isn’t to put one vs the other, if anything it is a reflection of a coach who likely was unable to get two top tier talents use to each other as Harper was injured all summer and then Ace was injured before season started.

I know excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses…but valid nonetheless.

My biggest concern is the free throw percentage.

[ArthurVandelay]

I really don't care about the assist stuff with Ace tbh
Multiple debates online everyday about whether or not Scottie can be that guy or if he has the mentality to carry the offense as a true #1. Not every team is gonna be able to find that elite franchise changing scorer but it never hurts to atleast have someone who understands how to get baskets. Between Scottie and IQ there's enough playmaking, Quick comes back and immediately Gradey is getting better looks again. RJs whole shot diet did a 180 coming from new york I can only imagine the positions they will put Ace in to succeed while being immensely more talented and actually trying on defense

Yeah I never understood that point in terms of the Raps, we don't need anymore play makers, we need more play finishers, more shooters, more guys who can get stuff out of nothing. Bailey's weaknesses aren't the teams weakness, and his strengths are something we desperately need.

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Take a look at his teammates: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/rutgers/men/2025.html

He’s playing with the Washington Generals.

[ItsDanger]

I really don't care about the assist stuff with Ace tbh
Multiple debates online everyday about whether or not Scottie can be that guy or if he has the mentality to carry the offense as a true #1. Not every team is gonna be able to find that elite franchise changing scorer but it never hurts to atleast have someone who understands how to get baskets. Between Scottie and IQ there's enough playmaking, Quick comes back and immediately Gradey is getting better looks again. RJs whole shot diet did a 180 coming from new york I can only imagine the positions they will put Ace in to succeed while being immensely more talented and actually trying on defense

Yeah I never understood that point in terms of the Raps, we don't need anymore play makers, we need more play finishers, more shooters, more guys who can get stuff out of nothing. Bailey's weaknesses aren't the teams weakness, and his strengths are something we desperately need.

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Lauri Markkanen averaged less than 1 assist at Arizona. Most scorers will generate passes off double teams, at college level you're expected to score because defenders arent as good and neither are your teammates. This changes at next level a lot.

[Yallbecrazy]

Yeah I never understood that point in terms of the Raps, we don't need anymore play makers, we need more play finishers, more shooters, more guys who can get stuff out of nothing. Bailey's weaknesses aren't the teams weakness, and his strengths are something we desperately need.

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Take a look at his teammates: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/rutgers/men/2025.html

He’s playing with the Washington Generals.

Look at how shooting percentages decline in the NBA when a pass is made to a 3pt shooter where he has to reach for it vs when it hits him right in the chest. Having good teammates vs poor teammates might mean a bump 10-15% more assists maximum. Inflate his assist numbers 50% and they're still terrible.

[ArthurVandelay]

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Take a look at his teammates: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/rutgers/men/2025.html

He’s playing with the Washington Generals.

Look at how shooting percentages decline in the NBA when a pass is made to a 3pt shooter where he has to reach for it vs when it hits him right in the chest. Having good teammates vs poor teammates might mean a bump 10-15% more assists maximum. Inflate his assist numbers 50% and they're still terrible.

lol - look at the guys who played on the team the year before. They couldn’t shoot then either.

[Yallbecrazy]

Yeah I never understood that point in terms of the Raps, we don't need anymore play makers, we need more play finishers, more shooters, more guys who can get stuff out of nothing. Bailey's weaknesses aren't the teams weakness, and his strengths are something we desperately need.

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Lauri Markkanen averaged less than 1 assist at Arizona. Most scorers will generate passes off double teams, at college level you're expected to score because defenders arent as good and neither are your teammates. This changes at next level a lot.

Good find, Markannen still had more assists in fewer minutes and less than half the turnovers. (.9 assists and 1.1 TO)
Markannen has also been very poor in the NBA at getting his teammates involved though.
Again, not saying Ace won't figure it out or is guaranteed to bust, just think it is more likely than not he is not a NBA calibre player.

Looking back at top scorers in college there tends to be a common theme amongst busts and that is a poor assist to turnover ratio.

[ItsDanger]

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Lauri Markkanen averaged less than 1 assist at Arizona. Most scorers will generate passes off double teams, at college level you're expected to score because defenders arent as good and neither are your teammates. This changes at next level a lot.

Good find, Markannen still had more assists in fewer minutes and less than half the turnovers. (.9 assists and 1.1 TO)
Markannen has also been very poor in the NBA at getting his teammates involved though.
Again, not saying Ace won't figure it out or is guaranteed to bust, just think it is more likely than not he is not a NBA calibre player.

Looking back at top scorers in college there tends to be a common theme amongst busts and that is a poor assist to turnover ratio.

I think you can look at Markkanen's role in Utah as possibly what Bailey's role in NBA could look like as realistic outcome. Then evaluate based on that.
Of course, we really don'tknow his true upside, maybe it's higher than that.

[earthtone]

Stand by my Marvin Bagley comp.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marvin-bagleyiii-1/gamelog/2018

Michael Beasley is another comparison
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-beasley-1/gamelog/2008
They put up huge games too, were better rebounders too. Also, had terrible assist numbers (albeit better than Bailey)

Can anyone think of a pure scorer with terrible assist numbers that succeeded in the NBA?
Maybe he figures it out, but the Raptors don't need a pure iso scorer. Sure, a guy that can iso score would be nice, but they damn well better be able to get their teammates involved and make them better too.

The Spurs championship years are what every team should attempt to emulate, they played beautiful basketball and could probably win a championship even if one of their stars went down.

Not saying he's a do not draft, but you better be prepared for him to be a bust more often than not.

Lauri Markkanen averaged less than 1 assist at Arizona. Most scorers will generate passes off double teams, at college level you're expected to score because defenders arent as good and neither are your teammates. This changes at next level a lot.

Good find, Markannen still had more assists in fewer minutes and less than half the turnovers. (.9 assists and 1.1 TO)
Markannen has also been very poor in the NBA at getting his teammates involved though.
Again, not saying Ace won't figure it out or is guaranteed to bust, just think it is more likely than not he is not a NBA calibre player.

Looking back at top scorers in college there tends to be a common theme amongst busts and that is a poor assist to turnover ratio.

Yah, Markannen was also a significantly better rebounder and graded out better by all advanced stats.

I think Bailey has sky high potential, but there are also so many statistical red flags that are impossible to ignore. I think there's around zero chance he provides positive potential on his rookie contract, but the tools are definitely there for him to reach a very high level down the line. I'm not sure at which point in the draft I'd bet on Bailey's hypothetical ceiling vs more proven producers, but I don't think it would be in the top 5.

[Brinbe]

Bailey is crazy scrutinized for someone so young. People already seem to think he's predestined to be this or that and that's not entirely fair, especially for a frosh. The player he is now isn't necessarily what he'll be at 21 nevermind 23/24.

I can certainly see the negatives in his game and he did an okay job of answering some of that in the game last night, particularly in terms of getting to the rim/drawing fouls. And maybe it's something that will come easier to him at the next level with better teammates/better spacing but I can't lie that his somewhat high dribble/lack of real horizontal explosion in his game was noticeable even in my first impressions of his game back with his HS tape. Is he getting all these difficult shots because he can't really create seperation and he can use his height to compensate? Is that something that translates to the next level with bigger/more athletic opposition? I don't think those are unfair things to consider just like it is with any prospect.

Flagg and Harper are easily number 1/2 so far but that third spot and beyond are still up for grabs. I don't think Bailey is so bad as to be a Do Not Draft type and even if he's just ultimately some MPJ/Harrison Barnes amalgam there's still value in that adding that archetype to a team that badly needs big wing defenders and shooting/scoring. He may not be the 1A guy but I think he'd fit in pretty well with the current group we have.

What players are out there do people think are definitely outpacing everyone else to be third best right now? Are you gonna draft Jakucionis, Edgecombe, Tre Johnson third overall? Derik Queen? Maluach? Fears?

[Jerry Lucas]

What players are out there do people think are definitely outpacing everyone else to be third best right now? Are you gonna draft Jakucionis, Edgecombe, Tre Johnson third overall? Derik Queen? Maluach?

Kasparas, Queen and Edgecombe for sure I'm taking over Ace right now.

[Brinbe]

What players are out there do people think are definitely outpacing everyone else to be third best right now? Are you gonna draft Jakucionis, Edgecombe, Tre Johnson third overall? Derik Queen? Maluach?

Kasparas, Queen and Edgecombe for sure I'm taking over Ace right now.

And that's based on current play or what you project they'll all be at the next level? All those guys have just as many question marks too, especially if you consider the athleticism at the next level and how they'd adapt, plus things like defense in Queen's case.

[Jerry Lucas]

What players are out there do people think are definitely outpacing everyone else to be third best right now? Are you gonna draft Jakucionis, Edgecombe, Tre Johnson third overall? Derik Queen? Maluach?

Kasparas, Queen and Edgecombe for sure I'm taking over Ace right now.

And that's based on current play or what you project they'll all be at the next level?

Both.

All those guys have just as many question marks too, especially if you consider the athleticism at the next level and how they'd adapt, plus things like defense in Queen's case.

Nope lol, Ace Bailey is a minefield full of red flags everywhere so far. No other freshman prospect is comparable to him at the moment, in terms of number of significant red flags.

[Brinbe]

Kasparas, Queen and Edgecombe for sure I'm taking over Ace right now.

And that's based on current play or what you project they'll all be at the next level?

Both.

All those guys have just as many question marks too, especially if you consider the athleticism at the next level and how they'd adapt, plus things like defense in Queen's case.

Nope lol, Ace Bailey is a minefield full of red flags everywhere so far. No other freshman prospect is comparable to him at the moment, in terms of number of significant red flags.

Good thing he's not gonna be 18 forever then. And he's not gonna be that in the league.

And acting like the other guys don't also have question marks is my point and also bad whataboutism.

If you're gonna nitpick, do it to everyone

[Clutch0z24]

Yeah i don't understand the Bailey outcry....Barnes in college did not look like he does now....Lots of posters here literally thought we drafted a bust with him....Can't really judge Bailey right now....Esp its still so early in the year....Lots of basketball left to play....

You can also literally nit pick every single prospect about things they don't do....Not every NBA player btw is going to be a guy who gets lots of assists and thats ok....You don't need that kind of a player if you are the Raptors and have Barnes/IQ also Barrett who has shown flashes of being decent at passing....Every team needs a shot maker like Bailey....And if that shot making becomes elite in the NBA your looking at a potential superstar....

Flagg has red flaggs, Harper you can also find red flags in, Edgecome, Demin Jak, Tre Johnson all have red flaggs....If your going to judge Ace so harshly you would not have a good outcome in the draft because you can literally say this about every prospect....

Just like Masai did with Barnes when he took Barnes higher than he should have went he looked at Barnes and said "What could he become in 5+ years down the line" not what he is today. If you think like that about Bailey you can only really be excited of what he can be....Hes already a pretty elite 3 point shooter, and a Good defender also has rebounding potential....Them 3 things will always translate to any NBA team....If his floor is a heathy back MPJ thats still a good player for where you may be picking him at....But his ceiling is what you wanna hope for.

[Jerry Lucas]

And that's based on current play or what you project they'll all be at the next level?

Both.

All those guys have just as many question marks too, especially if you consider the athleticism at the next level and how they'd adapt, plus things like defense in Queen's case.

Nope lol, Ace Bailey is a minefield full of red flags everywhere so far. No other freshman prospect is comparable to him at the moment, in terms of number of significant red flags.

Good thing he's not gonna be 18 forever then. And he's not gonna be that in the league.

And acting like the other guys don't also have question marks is my point and also bad whataboutism.

If you're gonna nitpick, do it to everyone

You didn't actually read what I posted if you think I'm implying that the other guys you mentioned "don't also have question marks." Actually read what I posted again.

And if you're going to put that much stock into draft day age, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that part. Also Kasparas in particular is only 3 months older than Ace, but yeah Edgecombe and Queen are definitely older freshmen compared to Kasparas and Ace.

[Jstock12]

Bailey wars are crazy Most polarizing prospect that's not even projected top2 by anyone?

[anotherhomer]

lol, i honestly don't care....we just getting a really good player in the draft...look forward to that

Man nets have 4 picks

[Pooper]

If we slide out of top 5, I don't mind Bailey. Besides the self-creation/dribble, I think we can hide his weaknesses. We just need Quickley, Shead, Barnes, and maybe Dick to share those self-creation duties if he were to be drafted here. Also I feel like RJ and Bailey in the fast break would be crazy good. RJ can handle the rock and either go end to end or pass it off to Bailey on 3pt line or alley oop.