Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[SkywalkerAC]

When Pascal was Scottie’s age he was averaging under 8 ppg.

[tsherkin]

When Pascal was Scottie’s age he was averaging under 8 ppg.

That was his first year in the league, having been selected 27th overall. Didn't have the same sort of opportunity. And he was playing for a team that would win 51 games and had a pair of established 20+ ppg scorers in Lowry (at his peak) and DeRozan. Then they also still had Ibaka and Jonas. It's not like there was a TON of opportunity, or expectation, that he was going to come in and dominate. Not sure that's a really effective point of comparison.

[Raptaurus]

When Pascal was Scottie’s age he was averaging under 8 ppg.

Pascal didnt play basketball supposedly until he was 17. His development was gonna lag his peers just on the basis that he got such a late start.

[Boogie!]

Oh my god the Scottie barnes ppl are so crazy lol.

It's officially the worst delusion in franchise history. Worse than Bargnani. Worse than Jonas.

Mostly because there was never a toxic element of the fanbase that threw championship raptor players under the bus for bargnani or Jonas.

I mean...I'm not gonna do it. But we could have an absolute feast by pulling up old threads.

I feel bad for scotty because it's not his fault.

But it has literally been insane the amount of excuses and narratives and biases that have favored him since he came into the league. He might not be equipped for the backlash. It's kinda crazy how much of a golden child path he's been blessed with.

It may well be why he doesn't last in toronto.

I never thought I’d agree with you but here we are.

The thing is I actually want him to succeed.

My opinion hasn't changed about scotty since his rookie season. Nice to see that you have been persuaded to see things my way.

There is still a chance that we fire darko and sign Fred Vanvleet as player coach next season. We'd be attaining the best player development veteran in the league. Plus giving him a chance to prove himself as a premier coach.

I'd love to see fred blowing a whistle during the play when Scotty starts losing focus.

I also commend your humility for recognizing being wrong about Fred for so many years and so many reasons.

Let’s just be clear, my opinion on Scottie has nothing to do with Fred. Objectively I now see Scottie’s limitations but I’m still not getting excited over a career 40% fg player.

[SkywalkerAC]

When Pascal was Scottie’s age he was averaging under 8 ppg.

That was his first year in the league, having been selected 27th overall. Didn't have the same sort of opportunity. And he was playing for a team that would win 51 games and had a pair of established 20+ ppg scorers in Lowry (at his peak) and DeRozan. Then they also still had Ibaka and Jonas. It's not like there was a TON of opportunity, or expectation, that he was going to come in and dominate. Not sure that's a really effective point of comparison.

That was Pascal’s 2nd season after starting 38 games as a rookie. He received over 20mpg and shot 22% from 3.

The point stands - these are still early days for Scottie.

[AbC?]

Barnes’ glaring limitations were apparent as early as the start of year 2. Fans just refused to accept what was obvious watching him play and made a laundry list of excuses - injuries, pecking order, emotional distress (lmao) and so many more.

[Los_29]

When Pascal was Scottie’s age he was averaging under 8 ppg.

That was his first year in the league, having been selected 27th overall. Didn't have the same sort of opportunity. And he was playing for a team that would win 51 games and had a pair of established 20+ ppg scorers in Lowry (at his peak) and DeRozan. Then they also still had Ibaka and Jonas. It's not like there was a TON of opportunity, or expectation, that he was going to come in and dominate. Not sure that's a really effective point of comparison.

That was Pascal’s 2nd season after starting 38 games as a rookie. He got over 20mpg and shot 22% from 3.

The point stands - these are still early days for Scottie.

Pascal was way behind Scottie in terms of developmental years though. Scottie is in year 4 and has seen little improvement in many areas. Pascal was seeing rapid development despite being so much older. What you see is what you’re most likely going to get.

[SkywalkerAC]

That was his first year in the league, having been selected 27th overall. Didn't have the same sort of opportunity. And he was playing for a team that would win 51 games and had a pair of established 20+ ppg scorers in Lowry (at his peak) and DeRozan. Then they also still had Ibaka and Jonas. It's not like there was a TON of opportunity, or expectation, that he was going to come in and dominate. Not sure that's a really effective point of comparison.

That was Pascal’s 2nd season after starting 38 games as a rookie. He got over 20mpg and shot 22% from 3.

The point stands - these are still early days for Scottie.

Pascal was way behind Scottie in terms of developmental years though. Scottie is in year 4 and has seen little improvement in many areas. Pascal was seeing rapid development despite being so much older. What you see is what you’re most likely going to get.

People said the same thing about DeMar when he was 23 and averaged 18ppg.

[Indeed]

That was Pascal’s 2nd season after starting 38 games as a rookie. He got over 20mpg and shot 22% from 3.

The point stands - these are still early days for Scottie.

Pascal was way behind Scottie in terms of developmental years though. Scottie is in year 4 and has seen little improvement in many areas. Pascal was seeing rapid development despite being so much older. What you see is what you’re most likely going to get.

People said the same thing about DeMar when he was 23 and averaged 18ppg.

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

[SkywalkerAC]

Pascal was way behind Scottie in terms of developmental years though. Scottie is in year 4 and has seen little improvement in many areas. Pascal was seeing rapid development despite being so much older. What you see is what you’re most likely going to get.

People said the same thing about DeMar when he was 23 and averaged 18ppg.

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

He’s better on offense than Derozan was at same age, and light years better on defense. Lite my ass.

Scottie is still on his rookie contract, apparently it’s easy to forget that.

[Indeed]

People said the same thing about DeMar when he was 23 and averaged 18ppg.

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

He’s better on offense than Derozan was at same age, and light years better on defense. Lite my ass.

Scottie is still on his rookie contract, apparently it’s easy to forget that.

Better than offense? Pretty much the same TS%, same % from corner 3s.
And certainly we can wait until next year.

[ConSarnit]

People said the same thing about DeMar when he was 23 and averaged 18ppg.

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

He’s better on offense than Derozan was at same age, and light years better on defense. Lite my ass.

Scottie is still on his rookie contract, apparently it’s easy to forget that.

Debatable. He’s definitely a better passer but his efficiency is terrible compared to the league average. Demar was slightly worse than the league average in his 4th year and was better at drawing fouls. In his 4th year Demar was still in the top half (barely) for high usage scorers in terms of efficiency. Barnes is in the bottom 3.

People need to realize how damaging having 25% of your scoring come from 53 TS% is. Barnes is one of the worst high usage scorers in the entire league.

[SkywalkerAC]

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

He’s better on offense than Derozan was at same age, and light years better on defense. Lite my ass.

Scottie is still on his rookie contract, apparently it’s easy to forget that.

Better than offense? Pretty much the same TS%, same % from corner 3s.
And certainly we can wait until next year.

Similar as a scorer, better passer and offensive rebounder = better offensive player.

[SkywalkerAC]

4 years and his 3s are still way below average or regressed. Paying near max for DeRozan lite, great

He’s better on offense than Derozan was at same age, and light years better on defense. Lite my ass.

Scottie is still on his rookie contract, apparently it’s easy to forget that.

Debatable. He’s definitely a better passer but his efficiency is terrible compared to the league average. Demar was slightly worse than the league average in his 4th year and was better at drawing fouls. In his 4th year Demar was still in the top half (barely) for high usage scorers in terms of efficiency. Barnes is in the bottom 3.

People need to realize how damaging having 25% of your scoring come from 53 TS% is. Barnes is one of the worst high usage scorers in the entire league.

There’s every reason to think Scottie’s efficiency will improve as the team around him improves, as it will next year.

People also need to remember how important it is to have all-nba calibre defensive players.

[SkywalkerAC]

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/live/NyylPWOKGsU?si=ZXc_I55xgCy9RBU6[/youtube]

I’ve forgotten how to embed YouTube videos on here…

[Zeno]

I am really not too concerned with Scottie's development because I never thought he was going to be the best player on a championship team and to me, alot of what he has improved on this year are the types of things a really good number 2 or 3 need to excel at. Him not making all-nba is an excellent development too. With the cap set to rise by 10% a year over the course of his new deal, you're number 2 making max is not really a big deal. Ingram can stand in as a number 1 until hopefully our pick this year develops into one or if that fails we have control over our draft to make a Mitchell type trade like the Cavs did if the opportunity arises.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If Scottie keeps getting major volume and his offense doesn't considerably improve he is going to be a roster construction problem. As another guy whose efficiency is largely driven by passing and defense there is a reason why Draymond isn't a high FGA guy on a winning team.

Time is running out for Barnes to show something as a scorer and if he doesn't he needs to be on board with scaling down a ton. Yet a lot of his passing production seems more as a result of just having the ball in his hands rather than being a really saavy connector and facilitator. It's really up in the air where his career trajectory goes from here.

[HangTime]

If Scottie keeps getting major volume and his offense doesn't considerably improve he is going to be a roster construction problem. As another guy whose efficiency is largely driven by passing and defense there is a reason why Draymond isn't a high FGA guy on a winning team.

Time is running out for Barnes to show something as a scorer and if he doesn't he needs to be on board with scaling down a ton. Yet a lot of his passing production seems more as a result of just having the ball in his hands rather than being a really saavy connector and facilitator. It's really up in the air where his career trajectory goes from here.

You're joking, right? The clock has barely started.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If Scottie keeps getting major volume and his offense doesn't considerably improve he is going to be a roster construction problem. As another guy whose efficiency is largely driven by passing and defense there is a reason why Draymond isn't a high FGA guy on a winning team.

Time is running out for Barnes to show something as a scorer and if he doesn't he needs to be on board with scaling down a ton. Yet a lot of his passing production seems more as a result of just having the ball in his hands rather than being a really saavy connector and facilitator. It's really up in the air where his career trajectory goes from here.

You're joking, right? The clock has barely started.

Scottie at 22: "The clock has barely started"
Scottie at 24: "The clock has barely started"
Scottie at 26: "The clock has barely started"

[Thaddy]

If Scottie keeps getting major volume and his offense doesn't considerably improve he is going to be a roster construction problem. As another guy whose efficiency is largely driven by passing and defense there is a reason why Draymond isn't a high FGA guy on a winning team.

Time is running out for Barnes to show something as a scorer and if he doesn't he needs to be on board with scaling down a ton. Yet a lot of his passing production seems more as a result of just having the ball in his hands rather than being a really saavy connector and facilitator. It's really up in the air where his career trajectory goes from here.

You're joking, right? The clock has barely started.

Scottie at 22: "The clock has barely started"
Scottie at 24: "The clock has barely started"
Scottie at 26: "The clock has barely started"

Barnes isn't a bust but he isn't a superstar worth the max either. Anyone expecting him to improve his career numbers is misguided. What you see is what you're going to get for the rest of his max contract. I have a strong doubt he'll get more money in the future consider how hard he flopped as the number 1 option this year. This was supposed to be a career year with free reign, and he fell flat on his face. His handle, shooting, and other guard skills are the exact same as when he first entered the league.