Team Canada Basketball Thread

[Hair Canada]

NBAdraft.net with a new mock out late last week.

Not much change from late January.

SGA (2018) drops from 11 to 13.

For 2019:

Barrett 1 (unchanged)
Brissett 8 (up from 11)
NAW 10 (down from 8)
Shi-ttu 17 (down from 15)
Wigginton 28 (down from 25)
Jackson 55 (unchanged)

http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

Interesting that Brissett and NAW are ranked that high. Mostly a testimony I think to a pretty weak 2018 class. I'd be quite surprised if they both end up as lottery picks next year.

Brissett has been a really nice surprise for those who didn't know him before, but his shooting is really not good, and that's at the college level. He'll need to improve that quite a bit next year (especially the three-point shot, in order to be an efficient 3-and-D).

NAW has been having a really up-and-down season, with plenty of games where he scores 5 or less and seems to be out of VT offensive game. That said, he had a great game tonight in a surprise win over Duke, leading the team with 17 and playing better than likely first draft picks this year such as Duval and Trent Jr. He's also been shooting well (41% from 3) and playing solid defense, as always. I just wish he has a bit more of the gumption that his cousin is showing at KY.

[mojo13]

SMNT relevant(ish) news:

Joel Anthony signs in Argentina. Hah...love and respect the guy for his long time service but maybe this keeps him away from the SMNT. Or at least gets him in better game shape.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/524384/Joel-Anthony-signs-at-San-Lorenzo

Mych Kabongo lands in the French second division after playing pretty well in the Spanish EBA which I think is their 4th division. I know he is no longer eligible for Canada (not good enough) but there is a lingering interest in him among Canadian fans because of how hyped he was. He played really well in AfroBasket for the DRC.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523747/Le-Havre-lands-Myck-Kabongo

Kris Joseph signs with the Niagra River Lions (NBL). He seems declining quickly and falling off our radar.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523612/River-Lions-land-Kris-Joseph

Interesting interview with Aaaron Doornekmap who as a reminder is starting with EuroLeage (and ACB) club Valencia.
On my Power Ranking of Canadian SFs he ranks Number Three! Tommy Scrubb is growing on me though. Kidding aside - he has really improved the last couple seasons and is a viable 3&D role player on any Canadian national team (if we can forgive him for 2015 that is).
https://thebasketballdrawer.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/aaron-doornekamp-im-a-peaceful-person-outside-basketball/

[Hair Canada]

SMNT relevant(ish) news:

Joel Anthony signs in Argentina. Hah...love and respect the guy for his long time service but maybe this keeps him away from the SMNT. Or at least gets him in better game shape.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/524384/Joel-Anthony-signs-at-San-Lorenzo

Mych Kabongo lands in the French second division after playing pretty well in the Spanish EBA which I think is their 4th division. I know he is no longer eligible for Canada (not good enough) but there is a lingering interest in him among Canadian fans because of how hyped he was. He played really well in AfroBasket for the DRC.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523747/Le-Havre-lands-Myck-Kabongo

Kris Joseph signs with the Niagra River Lions (NBL). He seems declining quickly and falling off our radar.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523612/River-Lions-land-Kris-Joseph

Interesting interview with Aaaron Doornekmap who as a reminder is starting with EuroLeage (and ACB) club Valencia.
On my Power Ranking of Canadian SFs he ranks Number Three! Tommy Scrubb is growing on me though. Kidding aside - he has really improved the last couple seasons and is a viable 3&D role player on any Canadian national team (if we can forgive him for 2015 that is).
https://thebasketballdrawer.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/aaron-doornekamp-im-a-peaceful-person-outside-basketball/

Thanks Mojo. When can we expect an updated power ranking?

[mojo13]

SMNT relevant(ish) news:

Joel Anthony signs in Argentina. Hah...love and respect the guy for his long time service but maybe this keeps him away from the SMNT. Or at least gets him in better game shape.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/524384/Joel-Anthony-signs-at-San-Lorenzo

Mych Kabongo lands in the French second division after playing pretty well in the Spanish EBA which I think is their 4th division. I know he is no longer eligible for Canada (not good enough) but there is a lingering interest in him among Canadian fans because of how hyped he was. He played really well in AfroBasket for the DRC.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523747/Le-Havre-lands-Myck-Kabongo

Kris Joseph signs with the Niagra River Lions (NBL). He seems declining quickly and falling off our radar.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523612/River-Lions-land-Kris-Joseph

Interesting interview with Aaaron Doornekmap who as a reminder is starting with EuroLeage (and ACB) club Valencia.
On my Power Ranking of Canadian SFs he ranks Number Three! Tommy Scrubb is growing on me though. Kidding aside - he has really improved the last couple seasons and is a viable 3&D role player on any Canadian national team (if we can forgive him for 2015 that is).
https://thebasketballdrawer.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/aaron-doornekamp-im-a-peaceful-person-outside-basketball/

Thanks Mojo. When can we expect an updated power ranking?

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

[aminiaturebuddha]

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player

For Lyles I think it's mostly a matter of Denver having some guys healthy again, so they're spreading the ball around more. He's still hitting on great percentages, and his other numbers seem alright. I think if he ever got more minutes and dominated the ball more, he'd be back to beasting again in no time.

Birch, unfortunately, seems to have slipped back out of the rotation the last 3 games, but through no fault of his own. Orlando has both Vucevic and Biyombo healthy for the first time in a while, and they really can't play any of those 3 guys together on the floor, so Birch's minutes are likely to suffer the rest of the season. He's proved he belongs, though, so I'm sure Orlando will try to off-load at least one of those other guys this off-season, since they cost way more in salary than Birch.

[TooBad]

SMNT relevant(ish) news:

Joel Anthony signs in Argentina. Hah...love and respect the guy for his long time service but maybe this keeps him away from the SMNT. Or at least gets him in better game shape.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/524384/Joel-Anthony-signs-at-San-Lorenzo

Mych Kabongo lands in the French second division after playing pretty well in the Spanish EBA which I think is their 4th division. I know he is no longer eligible for Canada (not good enough) but there is a lingering interest in him among Canadian fans because of how hyped he was. He played really well in AfroBasket for the DRC.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523747/Le-Havre-lands-Myck-Kabongo

Kris Joseph signs with the Niagra River Lions (NBL). He seems declining quickly and falling off our radar.
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/523612/River-Lions-land-Kris-Joseph

Interesting interview with Aaaron Doornekmap who as a reminder is starting with EuroLeage (and ACB) club Valencia.
On my Power Ranking of Canadian SFs he ranks Number Three! Tommy Scrubb is growing on me though. Kidding aside - he has really improved the last couple seasons and is a viable 3&D role player on any Canadian national team (if we can forgive him for 2015 that is).
https://thebasketballdrawer.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/aaron-doornekamp-im-a-peaceful-person-outside-basketball/

Thanks Mojo. When can we expect an updated power ranking?

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

I don't know how you can even question that Murray is not #1 at this point. Wiggins can't do anything else but score and even that is usually inefficient.

[mojo13]

Thanks Mojo. When can we expect an updated power ranking?

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

I don't know how you can even question that Murray is not #1 at this point. Wiggins can't do anything else but score and even that is usually inefficient.

You think Murray is a better defender than Wiggins?

[TooBad]

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

I don't know how you can even question that Murray is not #1 at this point. Wiggins can't do anything else but score and even that is usually inefficient.

You think Murray is a better defender than Wiggins?

When he wants to be yes. I've seen him lock down players but he's like a lot of stars and doesn't play D all the time. Definitely better than Wiggins though,

[frumble]

I am not sure why Hanlan get so much shade on this forum.

During the November qualifying games he and XRM each shot poorly (3/11 for Hanlan, 4/14 for XRM), but Hanlan was better from the line (6/7 vs. 2/4) and had as many or more points (12 vs. 11), rebounds (7 vs. 4), assists (6 each) and steals (3 each) in far fewer minutes (32 vs. 46). And he only had one turnover vs. six for XRM. Small sample, but I don't think he was any worse than XRM during those two games (or the three AmeriCup games, when Hanlan was 14/28 vs. 16/42 for XRM, including 1/12 from 3).

In the G-league (obviously a much larger sample), Hanlan's rebounding and assist numbers have not been strong, but he looks good relative to the other Canadian guards in FG% and points per 40.

FG%
Hanlan 45.5%
XRM 43.2%
Best 42.5%
Long 41.4%
Keane 37.1%

Pts per 40
Long 19.8
Hanlan 19.4
XRM 18.6
Keane 13.3
Best 11.9

[mojo13]

There was some conversation about whether games against the 4th place teams carry over (they do).
https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265956/fiba-world-cup-qualifiers-europe-results-of-all-games-played-in-1st-round-are-valid-for-2nd-round.html#refresh_ce

To show how F'd up this format is - supposedly Slovenia's federation did not even know this and essentially sat some of their best available players against Belarus and lost. That will be a key loss in the 2nd round since it carries over. Their coach is furios - at everyone - players, federation, FIBA...the lot.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/624790/prepelic-wc-qualifiers-huge-bullsh-t/

[mojo13]

I am not sure why Hanlan get so much shade on this forum.

During the November qualifying games he and XRM each shot poorly (3/11 for Hanlan, 4/14 for XRM), but Hanlan was better from the line (6/7 vs. 2/4) and had as many or more points (12 vs. 11), rebounds (7 vs. 4), assists (6 each) and steals (3 each) in far fewer minutes (32 vs. 46). And he only had one turnover vs. six for XRM. Small sample, but I don't think he was any worse than XRM during those two games (or the three AmeriCup games, when Hanlan was 14/28 vs. 16/42 for XRM, including 1/12 from 3).

In the G-league (obviously a much larger sample), Hanlan's rebounding and assist numbers have not been strong, but he looks good relative to the other Canadian guards in FG% and points per 40.

FG%
Hanlan 45.5%
XRM 43.2%
Best 42.5%
Long 41.4%
Keane 37.1%

Pts per 40
Long 19.8
Hanlan 19.4
XRM 18.6
Keane 13.3
Best 11.9

For me it is more how Hanlan is trending in his career. He started out well getting drafted. He failed to make the NBA nor perform decently in the Summer League. He signed with a EuroLeague team (Zalgiris) and failed to perform there, getting cut after 1 year of a two year contract. Maybe he started at a level beyond his ability, but then he drops down another big level (or three) to the French first division with Le Mans and was nothing special there.

All the guys listed above are 23-25 (Hanlan is 25) so none likely have huge upside, but seemingly everyone one of them is improving every year - and all meaningfully this year. But it is their first pro year so that should be expected. Hanlan is in his third year as a pro and I have not seen much improvement in his game (if any) I don't know what he does well or if he is a PG or SG. But it is mostly the career trends that shade my opinion meaningfully. Just my personal opinion with not much hard data to back me up.

When pushed I can admit Hanlan is probably still the best of that group above (individually) besides XRM. Best and McNeily sort of supersized me so I might be overly rosy on them right now. Best seems to add value on the defensive end and McNeily seems to be an accurate three point shooter and solid defender - but frankly that was my first time seeing either play.

[slothrop8]

There was some conversation about whether games against the 4th place teams carry over (they do).
https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265956/fiba-world-cup-qualifiers-europe-results-of-all-games-played-in-1st-round-are-valid-for-2nd-round.html#refresh_ce

To show how F'd up this format is - supposedly Slovenia's federation did not even know this and essentially sat some of their best available players against Belarus and lost. That will be a key loss in the 2nd round since it carries over. Their coach is furios - at everyone - players, federation, FIBA...the lot.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/624790/prepelic-wc-qualifiers-huge-bullsh-t/

LOL - Slovenia's federation should have hired me to root around on the internet for them - if I figured it out, they ought to have been able to.

[slothrop8]

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

I like the updates, but I'll join the other poster in saying the Murray vs Wiggins comparison isn't even a reasonable debate at the moment, Murray is way ahead in terms of actual current performance. Wiggins is posting a 50.9% TS in an offensive environment where league average is 55.7% - that's flat out terrible. I don't believe it's indicative of what Wiggins is capable of, I expect he's likely to even trend upward the rest of this season and hopefully be better in the future, but in terms of actual results this season Wiggins has been bad and Murray has been really good. Murray is chilling in the clubhouse as the clear #1.

[frumble]

For me it is more how Hanlan is trending in his career. He started out well getting drafted. He failed to make the NBA nor perform decently in the Summer League. He signed with a EuroLeague team (Zalgiris) and failed to perform there, getting cut after 1 year of a two year contract. Maybe he started at a level beyond his ability, but then he drops down another big level (or three) to the French first division with Le Mans and was nothing special there.

All the guys listed above are 23-25 (Hanlan is 25) so none likely have huge upside, but seemingly everyone one of them is improving every year - and all meaningfully this year. But it is their first pro year so that should be expected. Hanlan is in his third year as a pro and I have not seen much improvement in his game (if any) I don't know what he does well or if he is a PG or SG. But it is mostly the career trends that shade my opinion meaningfully. Just my personal opinion with not much hard data to back me up.

When pushed I can admit Hanlan is probably still the best of that group above (individually) besides XRM. Best and McNeily sort of supersized me so I might be overly rosy on them right now. Best seems to add value on the defensive end and McNeily seems to be an accurate three point shooter and solid defender - but frankly that was my first time seeing either play.

Fair enough. And I am probably putting too much stock in Hanlan's promise of three years ago, and not enough in his performance in Europe.

[frumble]

There was some conversation about whether games against the 4th place teams carry over (they do).
https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265956/fiba-world-cup-qualifiers-europe-results-of-all-games-played-in-1st-round-are-valid-for-2nd-round.html#refresh_ce

To show how F'd up this format is - supposedly Slovenia's federation did not even know this and essentially sat some of their best available players against Belarus and lost. That will be a key loss in the 2nd round since it carries over. Their coach is furios - at everyone - players, federation, FIBA...the lot.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/624790/prepelic-wc-qualifiers-huge-bullsh-t/

LOL - Slovenia's federation should have hired me to root around on the internet for them - if I figured it out, they ought to have been able to.

It's bizarre because its a complete departure from what FIBA has done in the past. There is no reason why results against dropped teams should now count.

Still, you are right - inexcusable that a national federation would not know the qualifying system (though it would not surprise me at all if Basketball Canada does not know it).

[Hair Canada]

Hah...I'll re-look at it maybe near the end of the season. First questions is what has changed over the last few months? Here are some thoughts:
- Trey Lyles was on a beastly tear and has reverted a little into a key bench role.
- Khem Birch has established himself as a legit NBA rotational player
- Ennis has continued to disappear
- Stauskas has trailed off even further
- Pangos has gotten better and better in the EuroLeague
- Ejim was impressive for Team Canada and perhaps gets bumped up a notch or two
- I'd say the same for Brady Heslip (begrudgingly) - he clearly can be quite deadly against crap teams
- Kyle Wiltjer is still a very unique but deeply flawed player in the EuroLeague
- Maybe Jamal Murray is due to take over #1 from Wiggins but I'd have to look closer
- I was much more impressed by Kyle Landry than Marc Trasolini (much more than Owen Klassen for that matter), but it could have been the level of competiton or the opportunity given Landry. Trasolini didn't get the opportunity I thought he deserved by Coach Rana.
- Adika Peter McNeiley or Aaron best could crack the list - I liked them relative to Olivier Hanlan.
- XRM seems on the verge of cracking the NBA - and is the rumor I here why he did not join Team Canada.
- Naz Long has gotten a 2 way and a 10 day NBA contract since then.
- What else is trending?

I like the updates, but I'll join the other poster in saying the Murray vs Wiggins comparison isn't even a reasonable debate at the moment, Murray is way ahead in terms of actual current performance. Wiggins is posting a 50.9% TS in an offensive environment where league average is 55.7% - that's flat out terrible. I don't believe it's indicative of what Wiggins is capable of, I expect he's likely to even trend upward the rest of this season and hopefully be better in the future, but in terms of actual results this season Wiggins has been bad and Murray has been really good. Murray is chilling in the clubhouse as the clear #1.

I'm also with you on that (Murray>Wiggins). For the others, is this just a Pro ranking? If not, SGA and Barrett should have a spot in the top-25 in my opinion.

[slothrop8]

There was some conversation about whether games against the 4th place teams carry over (they do).
https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265956/fiba-world-cup-qualifiers-europe-results-of-all-games-played-in-1st-round-are-valid-for-2nd-round.html#refresh_ce

To show how F'd up this format is - supposedly Slovenia's federation did not even know this and essentially sat some of their best available players against Belarus and lost. That will be a key loss in the 2nd round since it carries over. Their coach is furios - at everyone - players, federation, FIBA...the lot.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/624790/prepelic-wc-qualifiers-huge-bullsh-t/

LOL - Slovenia's federation should have hired me to root around on the internet for them - if I figured it out, they ought to have been able to.

It's bizarre because its a complete departure from what FIBA has done in the past. There is no reason why results against dropped teams should now count.

Still, you are right - inexcusable that a national federation would not know the qualifying system (though it would not surprise me at all if Basketball Canada does not know it).

It is a departure from what they've done at times, I agree - but I can see the argument both ways though. If we had lost to Bahamas - why should that loss get dropped from our record just because Bahamas sucked against everyone else? If you lose/under perform against the worst team in your group, why shouldn't that be reflected in your record moving forward? In one sense it's no different than the fact that the NBA playoffs are seeded 1-8 in each conference based on your overall record, not 1-8 based on only your record strictly against the other playoff teams in your conference. Now, I can also understand how if your group draws someone unbelievably weak and everyone gets to feast on that bottom dweller, it can put more evenly matched groups at a disadvantage when you move through. But likewise, if you drop our results vs the bottom feeder, now the remainder of our group might be disproportionately more evenly matched than the teams coming through the other group and at a competitive disadvantage. There's no right or wrong answer in the tournament like this, but I have no problem with them doing it this way where everything counts. No ifs, ands, or buts - play each game like it counts the same and handle your business - it's as fair as anything else.

[Hair Canada]

There was some conversation about whether games against the 4th place teams carry over (they do).
https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265956/fiba-world-cup-qualifiers-europe-results-of-all-games-played-in-1st-round-are-valid-for-2nd-round.html#refresh_ce

To show how F'd up this format is - supposedly Slovenia's federation did not even know this and essentially sat some of their best available players against Belarus and lost. That will be a key loss in the 2nd round since it carries over. Their coach is furios - at everyone - players, federation, FIBA...the lot.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/624790/prepelic-wc-qualifiers-huge-bullsh-t/

LOL - Slovenia's federation should have hired me to root around on the internet for them - if I figured it out, they ought to have been able to.

It's bizarre because its a complete departure from what FIBA has done in the past. There is no reason why results against dropped teams should now count.

Still, you are right - inexcusable that a national federation would not know the qualifying system (though it would not surprise me at all if Basketball Canada does not know it).

Absolutely a ridiculous system. Gotta wonder who's sitting there making these decisions. but since that's how it is, it probably favors us. We're likely to end the first round with four blow-outs against the VI and the Bahamas, which should certainly play out nicely if we end up in the fourth place in the final round. One could also hope that Ayton and Hield would show up for the Bahamas in June and make life hard for DR, though I think that's quite unlikely (especially the pre-draft Ayton)

[Hair Canada]

LOL - Slovenia's federation should have hired me to root around on the internet for them - if I figured it out, they ought to have been able to.

It's bizarre because its a complete departure from what FIBA has done in the past. There is no reason why results against dropped teams should now count.

Still, you are right - inexcusable that a national federation would not know the qualifying system (though it would not surprise me at all if Basketball Canada does not know it).

It is a departure from what they've done at times, I agree - but I can see the argument both ways though. If we had lost to Bahamas - why should that loss get dropped from our record just because Bahamas sucked against everyone else? If you lose/under perform against the worst team in your group, why shouldn't that be reflected in your record moving forward? In one sense it's no different than the fact that the NBA playoffs are seeded 1-8 in each conference based on your overall record, not 1-8 based on only your record strictly against the other playoff teams in your conference. Now, I can also understand how if your group draws someone unbelievably weak and everyone gets to feast on that bottom dweller, it can put more evenly matched groups at a disadvantage when you move through. But likewise, if you drop our results vs the bottom feeder, now the remainder of our group might be disproportionately more evenly matched than the teams coming through the other group and at a competitive disadvantage. There's no right or wrong answer in the tournament like this, but I have no problem with them doing it this way where everything counts. No ifs, ands, or buts - play each game like it counts the same and handle your business - it's as fair as anything else.

Actually, there's a really simple and much more just solution for this. If you want 7 teams out of the Americas (as is the case), just have the fourth-place teams face each other in a neutral location. A total point differential system is always a source of problems and weird happenings. But does anyone really expect FIBA to come up with a reasonable solution?

[aminiaturebuddha]

That's a good rundown on the arguments on both sides, slothrop.

Overall, I think I'd tend to side with the argument that says that all games should count. There are so few of them anyway, relatively, every team should be trying their best to win every game.

The main argument that I'd be most sympathetic to on the other side is that if point differential also matters, you might have some games where a stronger country just runs up the score against one of the bottom-dwellers, which doesn't make for particularly attractive basketball. But while that's unfortunate, it's probably not enough to sway me.

So yeah, I'm basically in favour of all results carrying over, but FIBA hasn't exactly done a bang up job of introducing this new qualifying system.