Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[5DOM]

Any examples of talented players who could have done more if they weren't so passive? I guess Lamar Odom counts as one

[Kenyon009]

What do you guys expect Lambs Per 36 to look like in his rookie year? I'm guessing.

12 PPG, 4 rebounds, and 1 assist. 48%FG 40% 3P% and 80% FT.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Any examples of talented players who could have done more if they weren't so passive? I guess Lamar Odom counts as one

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Gordon come to mind. Sheed had best player in the game talent but he just got bored. And Ben Gordon showed us he could almost take out the Celtics by himself when motivated.

[TheDoctor]

I like Lamb, and while Chisholm made good points in his post, he completely ignored Lamb's freshman year, and his time with the USA juniors, and didn't make any reference to the disappointing mess that was UConn this year in general.

[Double Helix]

I would be more willing to go head-to-head with Chisholm here and his penchant for insisting that this new prospect fit in with one of the worst rosters in the league rather than us getting the player with the best mixture of low-risk high upside regardless of position but I do like and respect the other 2 players he prefers to Lamb and I can see why he likes them.

Lillard and Waiters are no joke.

He likes stats just as I do and there's TONS to like about both over Lamb. Higher PERs, more FTAs, more steals... Lots to like from both.

The questions about both of the guys he does like aren't any less relevant than his criticisms on Lamb though. Waiters, for all we know, is a problem child. He had it out with his former coach and more than a few scouts wonder about his mental makeup. He gives off an attitude and an arrogance in interviews. Who's to say he wouldn't be looking for a way out of Canada? He'd probably be the least quick, least explosive 6'4 combo guard in the league after Tyreke Evans. He's also been nicely protected in Sycracuse's zone (if he was a huge part of it) so his steals, much like Wesley Johnson's steals at Syracuse back when he was there, might be inflated and not representative of what he'll do at the next level. He also was able to put up a lot of his big numbers against other bench players and was given the greenlight to burn up a lot of possessions in his 6th man role. How effective will he be if he's not handed the reigns and the ball consistently as a pro? Do you give him a team? Do you immediately make him a James Harden-esque 6th man? Is he still engaged and contributing when he doens't have the ball in his hands on a regular basis?

Lillard's mental makeup is one of his biggest strengths so I'm not about to knock him there. I love the kid's work ethic. His questions revolve around how dominant he'll project since his opposition was weak and how well he'll be able to run a team. We also haven't seen how he might guard an NBA quality guard because he hasn't faced one.

That said... both Lillard and Waiters intrigue me a ton. I would LOVE to hear that the Raptors were convinced that the downsides of either weren't significant after working them out because I like watching both guys go to work and their metrics are compelling to say the least. It's not hard to make cases for either. It's harder in some ways to make a case for Lamb but I feel like he's a late blooming guy who's shyness and humbleness will be fade just as Bosh's original shyness and humbless did.

There's a difference between a late blooming kid who was under-recruited not fully realizing how good he can be but showing signs of improvement and a kid that's been under the microscope forever and choosing to ignore criticism. Lamb's had 1 single year of criticism as a player because he was a relative unknown before helping to lead UCONN to the NCAA championship. He took the criticisms people had about him and came back better this year. He was one of Team USA's best players and scored 35 points to lead that team over JV's Lithiunian team. UCONN lacked chemistry and I'm sure he's looking forward to leaving that program now. That gives me reason to think that he'll continue to grow and improve as expectations climb.

[Undefeated]

I said this way way back when I look at a prospect I look at three things and the third being the most important. 1) Talent, 2) Skillset, 3) Mentality. Lamb has a weak mentality and just like PJ3 it's going to hurt him once he gets into the NBA.

PJIII hasn't even dominated his peers in college. He barely even improved over his freshmen season. His position requires more toughness, reaction time and scrappiness than the SG spot does. His single greatest gifts are his size and athleticism and he uses neither to alter or block shots against players smaller than him in college. PJIII has been told for years that he was great and yet he approaches the game like he's a 6'8 PF.

Lamb approaches the game like a player still discovering how good he can be. He wasn't a high recruit. He's a late bloomer.

I'm still skeptical if he can change his demeanor. I won't lie he's got great skills but doesn't use them effectively enough because he passive. He's gonna be a similar to a permanent potential type where he'll give you good numbers but you know he can give you so much more if he were more engaged. Also Chisholm does bring forth a point. Lamb is more of a midrange shooter than he is a 3 point shooter and slasher, which mean he'll get into DeMar and Bargs space on the floor. That could complicate things on the offensive end.

Uh, Lamb's a pretty good 3-pt shooter. I know his percentages say otherwise, but a lot of his deep shots were off the dribble. It's harder when you have to create for himself from deep. He's usually money when he's spotting up. It's like Kobe, he's money when he isn't taking those off the dribble, fadeaway 30-footers.

[TheDoctor]

I'm just glad that all of these guys are on our radar, and that hopefully we'll be working some of them out against each other.

I'm with you DH - I like aspects of all these guys. Now we just need to pick the right one.

[fredericklove]

I said this way way back when I look at a prospect I look at three things and the third being the most important. 1) Talent, 2) Skillset, 3) Mentality. Lamb has a weak mentality and just like PJ3 it's going to hurt him once he gets into the NBA.

I don't think mentality is the most important, you can't isolate it from the other two which means all three are equally important if you want a really good prospect.

Lamb already has talent and skillset, 1) he has the talent to be a really good shooting guard in this league, 2) he has the skillset that allows him to be a really good scorer in this league and 3rd is the most concern, does he have the mentality to take over a game? So far he has 1) and 2)

Despite alot have questioned his mentality but if we were to draft him he'll be in the best system (not best lineup as Demar and him have some competitions) but Casey makes a player works hard and makes them toughen up, even if Lamb can't shaken off his passiveness, he'll still be doing what he's supposed to do in the NBA, and its to score. Not someone who struggles to score but someone who can flat out score. Also, if many posters say Casey will do wonders to Drummond or PJ3, he'll do the same to Lamb.

If you get Lamb at 8th, you get a prospect w/ talent and skillset. That's pretty good prospect to have at 8th. Plus, he does what a SG is supposed to do: shoot and handle the ball.

[deeps6x]

JV might be a top 10 C talent.
Lamb could be a top 10 SG talent.
Free agency could net us a top 10 PG.
A trade could net us a top 10 SF.

Someone's got high expectations this offseason So we're getting 3 All Stars this offseason good to know we'll be in play for the championship next season

Well, if we acquired Nash via free agency he'd be the only all star. A trade for a player like Iguodala (just an idea) would too. JV and Lamb on the other hand would be years away, if ever. Let's not forget that top 10 at your respective position does not guarantee you an all star spot.

The all star game is a popularity contest where either the top 2 players at any one spot are selected to any one conference unless somebody more popular than one of those two is healthy.

Popularity contest indeed. If we got Nash, and Rose still hadn't played a game by the All Star Break, Rose would still have been picked as the starting PG (with Rondo backing him up).

I'm still a fan of Lamb and Waiters, but BC isn't looking at any of them if he is sold on DD as our SG.

He won't even have a chance to re-sign Bayless before the draft, so I think he leans toward filling the back up PG spot, or picks the best available SF. Whether he thinks that is Barnes or PJIII, probably depends some on the draft combine and interviews. I'm anti-Barnes, but really can't say if PJIII is a better option. So many flaws to all of the players available around the 8th spot. Lots of potential, lots of flaws.

Waiters, great PER, great inside work, does he play any D? Have any range?

Lamb, does he have a motor? Does he avoid traffic?

PJIII, doesn't seem to have a motor, questionable D, avoids traffic, etc.

Lillard. Great shooter, undersized for either position. More of a Bayless clone, so is this what we need? (Yes, probably a better shooter, but still...)

Marshall, great frickin passer, but can't shoot. D?

Barnes. So many flaws. SO many... don't even want to think about it now.

What if Drummond drops? Crazy flaws, and probably decent potential. I'd let him fall past.

Of the bunch, if BC wants a PG, Lillard. If BC wants a SG, its Lamb by a nose over Waiters. If BC wants an SF, grudgingly PJIII and hope he turns into Paul George.

I'd still rather grab Ilyasova and then use the pick on a PG or SG. And since Bayless and Dragic are UFAs, I think the pick should be a SG. Lamb or Waiters, then spend to fill the gaps at the other positions.

[Young_Buc]

Any examples of talented players who could have done more if they weren't so passive? I guess Lamar Odom counts as one

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Gordon come to mind. Sheed had best player in the game talent but he just got bored. And Ben Gordon showed us he could almost take out the Celtics by himself when motivated.

Vince (Yeah he was a star, but his lazy mentality cost him surefire HOF status)
Michael Beasley
Sheed (definitely)
Chris Webber (Should have been a GOAT 4 but was too laid back)
Johnathan Bender
Marcus Camby
Ron Mercer
Baron Davis (except in Golden State)

[CunningLinguist]

The hyperbole that Lamb is afraid of contact is not true at all. He averaged 4 FTAs per game and has a wide variety of floaters and teardrops with either hand, so does that scream a prospect who's shy of physical play?

Yeah, Lamb averaged 3.6 FTA while Beal averaged 4.7 and DeMar, whose sole supposed strength is getting to the line, averaged 4.2 in his freshman year.

Obviously it's fair to question Lamb's willingness to absorb contact. You hope that some added upper-body strength would help. But it's an issue that's being overblown pretty dramatically by Chisholm and a few others here.

And Derrick Rose averaged only 5.1 FTA per game in college. I think Chisholm is way off base. The points that he makes in the article and the respective counter-arguments have been debated on this board ad nauseum.

[wanker]

Sounds like Lamb made a doo-doo at the NO workout...

[DG88]

DX came out with there best case/worst case for the draftees. Lamb's is Kevin Martin best case, Rashad McCants worst case. Now I know we should take these with a grain of salt but is getting the next Kevin Martin someone we should be hyping up about. We complain about DeRozan not rebounding or passing enough at the SG position but Kevin Martin nor Lamb have shown to be any better at this department either.

[5DOM]

Kevin Martin at least scores at a MUCH higher efficiency than DeMar.

[DG88]

Kevin Martin at least scores at a MUCH higher efficiency than DeMar.

Because he gets to the line at a very high rate. He's still a career 44% shooter.

[5DOM]

Kevin Martin at least scores at a MUCH higher efficiency than DeMar.

Because he gets to the line at a very high rate. He's still a career 44% shooter.

That + he makes a lot of 3 pointers at a pretty good rate. I don't really think Martin is a very good comparison for Lamb either, but I would be perfectly fine with drafting that level of player with the 8th pick.

[DG88]

Kevin Martin at least scores at a MUCH higher efficiency than DeMar.

Because he gets to the line at a very high rate. He's still a career 44% shooter.

That + he makes a lot of 3 pointers at a pretty good rate. I don't really think Martin is a very good comparison for Lamb either, but I would be perfectly fine with drafting that level of player with the 8th pick.

What I'm really trying to address is the hype machine around Lamb that starting to reach levels that it did for DeRozan back in 2009.

[Garmfay]

What I'm really trying to address is the hype machine around Lamb that starting to reach levels that it did for DeRozan back in 2009.

You can't stop it man. I tried and failed so hard

[DG88]

What I'm really trying to address is the hype machine around Lamb that starting to reach levels that it did for DeRozan back in 2009.

You can't stop it man. I tried and failed so hard

I just find it funny I mean if Lamb turn's out to similar to Kevin Martin that's pretty underwhelming compared to Rip Hamilton and Reggie Miller that people are hyping him up to be.

[Undefeated]

I think people are making the reference to Kevin Martin as Lamb's tier. He's a tier 2 SG, not exactly a bonfide All-Star, but perhaps maybe a borderline All-Star if everything falls for him. The only thing similar between those two is their physical structure. Game is nothing alike.