Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V1.0

[Tripod]

Jaime Jaquez (18th pick in the draft)on the heat is contributing a lot and is in the rotation. And the Heat don't normally play rookies much.

He looks so much more NBA ready than Gradey my goodness. SMH

He is 3 years older than Gradey.

That matters

Jimmy Butler was a 22 year old rookie. Jaquez passes the eye test.

What does Butler have to do with anything?

You are saying JJ looks better than Gradey and I simply pointed out that he is almost 3 years older so he should look better. The Raps didn't draft Gradey for him yo look he best this year. It was because they thought he would be the BPA long term. Time will tell if right or not.

[DG88]

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[ForeverTFC]

Sometimes you really need a Hornets thread on the GB to put in perspective how lucky we are to have a competent organization

[Dalek]

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I'd sign him.

Sure, but ain't he on a two-way deal with the 76ers?

[HumbleRen]

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Youth movement seems fun.

[Chandan]

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Youth movement seems fun.

tanking never works. look at the pistons
raptors tanked in tampa and look now they are in this hot mess.

[MiamiSPX]

Glad to see Murphy back for NO. Solid season debut. Pelicans in a good spot if they move off Zion and/or CJ, what with that collection of young talent already in place (Murphy, Daniels, Jones, Hawkins).

[Pointgod]

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Youth movement seems fun.

tanking never works. look at the pistons
raptors tanked in tampa and look now they are in this hot mess.

Tanking never works, except for all times it has worked

[Kingsway_fan]

You tank long enough.. eventually ... then there is Detroit ....

[ArthurVandelay]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

[Pointgod]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

Pistons situation is not an example of tanking gone wrong, it’s an example of trying to play the middle and poor draft choices. They traded the pick that ended up becoming Miles Bridges or Shai for Blake Griffin and his bum knees. They whiffed badly on Killian Hayes when Tyrese Haliburton and Devin Vassell were right there. They refused to trade Andre Drummond, Saddiq Bey at their max value. They mismanaged players like Bruce Brown and Reggie Jackson to lose them for nothing. Signed Jerami Grant and then traded him for a 1st. They had a coach who wasn’t known for development and have been trying to mix vets with young players instead of maximizing picks and focus on getting in the right mix of talented youth. You can make the argument had they just done a full rebuild instead of trading for Griffin they’d be where Orlando and the Pacers are now.

[ArthurVandelay]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

Pistons situation is not an example of tanking gone wrong, it’s an example of trying to play the middle and poor draft choices. They traded the pick that ended up becoming Miles Bridges or Shai for Blake Griffin and his bum knees. They whiffed badly on Killian Hayes when Tyrese Haliburton and Devin Vassell were right there. They refused to trade Andre Drummond, Saddiq Bey at their max value. They mismanaged players like Bruce Brown and Reggie Jackson to lose them for nothing. Signed Jerami Grant and then traded him for a 1st. They had a coach who wasn’t known for development and have been trying to mix vets with young players instead of maximizing picks and focus on getting in the right mix of talented youth. You can make the argument had they just done a full rebuild instead of trading for Griffin they’d be where Orlando and the Pacers are now.

I’m pretty sure the Griffin trade was done by previous FO.

Everything you said is correct. However they weren’t starting with a young franchise cornerstone they already drafted or a rookie contract they traded for. When a team doesn’t have the franchise cornerstone, they need to hit all their picks (which no one does) or have extreme luck.

While they certainly missed a number of picks, they also had two picks that anyone would have taken in Cade and Ivey that are looking to be misses in hindsight or at least on that Pistons team.

[KL78192020]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

The Magic didn't have a cornerstone in place at all. They're starting pretty much 4 top lottery picks in Suggs/Black/Paolo/Franz. 14-5 is a pretty good start to the season.

The key to tanking is being able to draft well having an existing cornerstone doesn't matter either if you cant draft well, which Masai has shown with Saikam/Powell/OG/Barnes. We'll see how Gradey pans out.

[ArthurVandelay]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

The Magic didn't have a cornerstone in place at all. They're starting pretty much 4 top lottery picks in Suggs/Black/Paolo/Franz. 14-5 is a pretty good start to the season.

The key to tanking is being able to draft well having an existing cornerstone doesn't matter either if you cant draft well, which Masai has shown with Saikam/Powell/OG/Barnes. We'll see how Gradey pans out.

Do you know how long the Magic have been bad?

They are finally digging out but there is no guarantee they have any long term sustained success.

Weltman has been running the team since 2017, this is his 7th (!) season. His first two draft picks were Isaac and Bamba.

That isn’t the blueprint I’d follow and shows exactly why you want to start a tank with a franchise corner stone you already drafted (like Barnes) or traded for like (SGA).

There are always exceptions to the rule but my point is the goal should be to be awful for as short a time as possible.

[HumbleRen]

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All of these teams have surpassed us aside from the Pistons.

[Gant]

Apparently, though he hasn't played much this season, Banton is starting for short handed Boston tonight.

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Can start for championship caliber Celtics... not good enough to Crack the 15 player lottery bound raptors roster....

He did ok, and was good enough (and tall enough) that we'll see him on the floor again sometime. Banton's not a regular rotation guy at this time. He's got a ways to go, but could have a career if he gets stronger and keeps working.

The young player who got a chance and opened eyes more than Banton was 2-wayer Neemias Queta.

Banton earned his fourth career start – and first as a Celtic – taking Holiday’s place on the court for the opening tip. Although he started off slow, going scoreless on just one field-goal attempt in the first half, the fourth-year guard picked it up after the break. He finished with eight points, five rebounds, an assist, and just one turnover in roughly 19 minutes of action after playing just 36 minutes in six prior appearances on the season.

https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar-post-20231126-queta-banton-help-shorthanded-cs-get-past-hawks

Since I said Banton wasn't a regular rotation guy, he's been in the rotation. So um, huh. This is due to Porzingis (and Holiday) being out- opening up some minutes, but it's also due to Banton outplaying the other end of benchers: Brissett, Stevens, and Svi.

Banton's outside shooting needs work, but his rebounding has been really good, as has his energy, positioning and defense. He may go back to not playing when Porzingis returns, but good for him for doing pretty well with this opportunity.

[ciueli]

The key to tanking is start with franchise cornerstone already in place. OKC did it with SGA.

Otherwise, unless you hit lottery luck, you’re going to be praying you find that special talent you can build a team around. You then open yourself up to the Pistons situation where tanking goes on for years and years. It’s a vicious cycle because without the franchise talent, the team gets younger and younger while never improving.

Start with a franchise cornerstone, and your tank should be 2-3 seasons/drafts at most with any luck.

Pistons situation is not an example of tanking gone wrong, it’s an example of trying to play the middle and poor draft choices. They traded the pick that ended up becoming Miles Bridges or Shai for Blake Griffin and his bum knees. They whiffed badly on Killian Hayes when Tyrese Haliburton and Devin Vassell were right there. They refused to trade Andre Drummond, Saddiq Bey at their max value. They mismanaged players like Bruce Brown and Reggie Jackson to lose them for nothing. Signed Jerami Grant and then traded him for a 1st. They had a coach who wasn’t known for development and have been trying to mix vets with young players instead of maximizing picks and focus on getting in the right mix of talented youth. You can make the argument had they just done a full rebuild instead of trading for Griffin they’d be where Orlando and the Pacers are now.

I’m pretty sure the Griffin trade was done by previous FO.

Everything you said is correct. However they weren’t starting with a young franchise cornerstone they already drafted or a rookie contract they traded for. When a team doesn’t have the franchise cornerstone, they need to hit all their picks (which no one does) or have extreme luck.

While they certainly missed a number of picks, they also had two picks that anyone would have taken in Cade and Ivey that are looking to be misses in hindsight or at least on that Pistons team.

Keep in mind they were offered SGA for Cade and said no, if they really wanted a guaranteed young star to build around they could have made that trade.

Also, Cade was not 100% the clear choice at #1, especially after it came out that his 6'8" measurement wasn't real.

[ArthurVandelay]

Pistons situation is not an example of tanking gone wrong, it’s an example of trying to play the middle and poor draft choices. They traded the pick that ended up becoming Miles Bridges or Shai for Blake Griffin and his bum knees. They whiffed badly on Killian Hayes when Tyrese Haliburton and Devin Vassell were right there. They refused to trade Andre Drummond, Saddiq Bey at their max value. They mismanaged players like Bruce Brown and Reggie Jackson to lose them for nothing. Signed Jerami Grant and then traded him for a 1st. They had a coach who wasn’t known for development and have been trying to mix vets with young players instead of maximizing picks and focus on getting in the right mix of talented youth. You can make the argument had they just done a full rebuild instead of trading for Griffin they’d be where Orlando and the Pacers are now.

I’m pretty sure the Griffin trade was done by previous FO.

Everything you said is correct. However they weren’t starting with a young franchise cornerstone they already drafted or a rookie contract they traded for. When a team doesn’t have the franchise cornerstone, they need to hit all their picks (which no one does) or have extreme luck.

While they certainly missed a number of picks, they also had two picks that anyone would have taken in Cade and Ivey that are looking to be misses in hindsight or at least on that Pistons team.

Keep in mind they were offered SGA for Cade and said no, if they really wanted a guaranteed young star to build around they could have made that trade.

If that is true…wow. Now that you mention it I do vaguely recall that but who knows what is real or what really happened. Cade was being referred to as the next Luka.

It’s always fun to compare the perspectives of future hope with hindsight reality.

[ItsDanger]

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All of these teams have surpassed us aside from the Pistons.

Team compete: "But . . . look at the Detroit!"

[Duffman100]

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All of these teams have surpassed us aside from the Pistons.

Team compete: "But . . . look at the Detroit!"

Minnesota sold their future for Gobert.
Cleveland sold their future for Mitchell
Houston had to sign Fred to start winning games
Orlando is in their full second cycle of tanking and only now are winning games and still haven’t won anything of substance.

Yeah really good examples…