Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[Senbonzakura]

Yes Scottie would look better in a 2nd / 3rd option role... that's the entire point of the thread. Some people think he's a franchise guy when he's not. He's a complementary piece.

[Basketball_Jones]

The Gordon comparison is interesting because he kind of has that type of Swiss Army knife value. Sometimes can hit 3’s, sometimes can handle and play make, sometimes can play center, ultimately these non specialized athletic 4/3’s are mainly best for defense and you shouldn’t pay them so much. Scottie is 23 though, and Gordon was once also looked at with a lot of potential. I just really hope Scottie doesn’t end up like that, never realizing his potential.

[YogurtProducer]

You **** up that formatting somehow trying to decipher it

DF: 56.0% TS (53.7% in the abbreviated sample with SAS after the trade), on 46.3 / 31.0 / 82.7, .273 FTr
RJ: 54.7% TS on 46.8 / 35.0 / 63.0 (54.7% TS), .317 FTr

You see how he was a worse 3pt shooter AND worse at drawing fouls, with slightly worse FG%? The only thing was the FT shooting.

Meantime, RJ was taking over 35% of his shots in the RA and Fox was taking about 16% of his (almost 21% with the Spurs, though).

So no, other than FT shooting, he really wasn't doing those other things better than RJ this seaso

Well first of all last year was Fox that started the year disgruntled and ended it on a different team. To me it is way more relevant to look at 2023 or 2024, the two years in which he was not in turmoil or forced to play with horrible fits like Demar Derozan.

2022/23 - 25.0ppg on 59.9TS%
2023/24 - 26.6ppg on 56.7TS%

Not to mention, the shot diet of Fox and Barrett is very, very different. Fox is a better 3 point shooter than RJ, he just takes a hell of a lot more pullups and is not relegated to spot up 3 point shooting. Fox for his career only has about 60% of his 3's assisted, and 20% of his 2's assisted.. RJ on the other hand has 94% of his 3's and 52% of his 2's (as a Raptor) assisted.

Fox has actually been a 35-39% C+S 3 point guy for a half decade. His problem is he takes a ton of Pull Up 3's. Likely cause the ball is in his hands and he is just forced to create more than RJ is.

Fox is also better at the rim (72-80% over last 3 years compared to RJ's 66% as a Raptor), better from 3-10 feet (53-57%, compared to RJs 41%), as well as from the midrange (Fox is 45ish% from 10-16 ft and 40ish% from long 2, whereas RJ is similar %'s but also is about a tenth of the volume as he almost never takes those shots). From 3 RJ has the % benefit, but he also takes almost twice as many 3's from the corner as Fox does, and again his are generally assisted and easier looks.

Yes, he had a season where he shot very well from three, at odds with the rest of his career to date. That was, however, the ONLY season where he exceeded 98 TS+ in his career, aka it was a large outlier.

Uhhh nope. The year he had a 103TS% was the year he shot 32.4% from 3. The year he shot well from 3 he randomly had a 98TS+.

Not to mention, RJ completely struggles in the TS+ category to, and he doesn't have the benefit of arguing that he is carrying an offense taking 21FGA per game like Fox did in 2024. I know you and others hate it, but there is some value to guys being able to take on that much volume and still be average efficiency. You obviously wish he was at 110TS+, but SOMEONE on the Kings had to take the bailout and bad shots... that was Fox.




Like overall - I really think you would find next to no one would agree with the idea that RJ is anywhere near Fox as a player or scorer, let alone better. I really would be interested in taking this to the general board. I would bet the votes would be 95%+ for Fox.

[YogurtProducer]

My point was to say that that Barnes is and will be better than Aaron Gordon.

On offense, this is doubtful. Overall, it depends on what his defensive ceiling is, which becomes a much more intriguing discussion.

Uhh what? What arguement does Gordon have for being better on offense than Barnes?

Gordon was a guy who got thrown into a bigger role with Orlando back in the day, and peaked as a 18/8/2 guy on 53.0TS% (95TS+) in year 4

Barnes at the same age of 22 put up 20/8/6 on 56.6TS% and a 98TS+

Like I am very, very confused on how you have AG > Barnes. AG of today is only "better" cause he plays with Jokic. Swap Barnes and Gordon tomorrow and we get WAY worse and Denver improves... like a lot.

[DreamTeam09]

My point was to say that that Barnes is and will be better than Aaron Gordon.

On offense, this is doubtful. Overall, it depends on what his defensive ceiling is, which becomes a much more intriguing discussion.

Uhh what? What arguement does Gordon have for being better on offense than Barnes?

Gordon was a guy who got thrown into a bigger role with Orlando back in the day, and peaked as a 18/8/2 guy on 53.0TS% (95TS+) in year 4

Barnes at the same age of 22 put up 20/8/6 on 56.6TS% and a 98TS+

Like I am very, very confused on how you have AG > Barnes. AG of today is only "better" cause he plays with Jokic. Swap Barnes and Gordon tomorrow and we get WAY worse and Denver improves... like a lot.

He doesn't see it that way, he says AG is more aggressive and athletic than Barnes, says Barnes is a rudimentary facilitator and doesn't give credence to play drivers compared to efficient 3rd options and doesn't believe Jokic would have the same impact on Barnes as he does AG, I was confused too as well but I didn't wanna continue the back & forth. He also said AG gets to his spots better, I wasn't buying what he was selling so we'll agree to heavily disagree.
I for one will enjoy the rest of my summer & wait patiently for some Raptor b-ball

[tsherkin]

Well first of all last year was Fox that started the year disgruntled and ended it on a different team. To me it is way more relevant to look at 2023 or 2024, the two years in which he was not in turmoil or forced to play with horrible fits like Demar Derozan.

So because he had attitude issues, we should look at the one season where he was reasonable?

But again, Fox is a 96 TS+ scorer on his career. RJ is a 93 TS+ scorer who has been at 100 and 95 the past two years with us on pretty reasonable volume.

You're right though: I did screw up 22 vs 23. 2022 was the year he randomly shot 57% on his short shots. That was my mistake.

Not to mention, RJ completely struggles in the TS+ category to, and he doesn't have the benefit of arguing that he is carrying an offense taking 21FGA per game like Fox did in 2024. I know you and others hate it, but there is some value to guys being able to take on that much volume and still be average efficiency.

Sure. As a second or third option, it's a lot more tolerable. It's a good reason why running offense through small guys isn't usually a good idea for big volume, though. As an 18-20 ppg scorer behind someone who is actually elite, it's obviously a little different. And if you're also an elite playmaker (which Fox is not), then it's obviously more tolerable. Bail-out shots, I don't really care about. As a little dude, he has foundational issues with size, although these past 3 years, his short game has been very good, even if he isn't likely to return to that 2023 level.

And of course, where the team is at and what are its aspirations changes as well. If a title isn't on the menu, then sure, using a weaker scorer to bootstrap your offense in front of a strong D is a classic technique for building forward while you search for a real first option, absolutely. But that's not another player type we need with our specific roster, and it's not one which much improves us. And remember, Fox has two seasons north of 32.4% from three. He's highly inconsistent.

So let's look at that a little more closely.

De'Aaron Fox ATB 3P%

2018: 31.3%, 1.6 3PA/g
2019: 38.4%, 2.4 3PA/g
2020: 31.6%, 3.0 3PA/g
2021: 31.6%, 5.0 3PA/g
2022: 30.8%, 3.6 3PA/g
2023: 33.4%, 4.4 3PA/g
2024: 36.1%, 6.7 3PA/g
2025: 30.4%, 5.0 3PA/g

Now let's look at the same for RJ:

2020: 30.0%, 2.3 3PA/g
2021: 37.3%, 2.3 3PA/g
2022: 35.0%, 4.2 3PA/g
2023: 30.3%, 3.8 3PA/g
2024: 34.0%, 2.7 3PA/g (with us)
2025: 33.3%, 4.0 3PA/g

So you'll notice how Fox has two seasons of competent shooting above the break, four seasons under 32% and then one at 33.4%? And how RJ has two seasons of 35%+, and then two more at 33.3 - 34.0%? They're not that distant as 3pt shooters, and there is a reason RJ is ahead on career 3P% at this time 34.6% to 33.0%. He's definitely a better corner shooter, and he's approximately as good above the break. Lesser volume, to be sure, but Fox has mostly put up bad ATB shooting seasons. It's not an area where you want to lean in for a strength.

Scoring between the RA and the 3pt line? FT shooting? He does a better job there, but now you're weighing rim pressure versus mid-range scoring for a guy who isn't traditionally much more efficient than RJ has been with us. And then speaking to our specific roster context, he becomes even less useful, because he overlaps too much with BI and isn't a strong/consistent ATB 3pt shooter, plus he doesn't provide that same level of rim pressure.

I don't love him as a volume option. I don't love RJ as a volume option either unless we are able to really carefully curate his shot diet, but Fox isn't a stunning offensive weapon at all.

[tsherkin]

Uhh what? What arguement does Gordon have for being better on offense than Barnes?

Gordon was a guy who got thrown into a bigger role with Orlando back in the day, and peaked as a 18/8/2 guy on 53.0TS% (95TS+) in year 4

Barnes at the same age of 22 put up 20/8/6 on 56.6TS% and a 98TS+

Like I am very, very confused on how you have AG > Barnes. AG of today is only "better" cause he plays with Jokic. Swap Barnes and Gordon tomorrow and we get WAY worse and Denver improves... like a lot.

I addressed this.

I agree that AG's performance is due to his role and his teammates. He's also improved considerably at shooting inside those parameters. But I think he does a better job inside that role than would Scottie, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier posts.

Scottie isn't an impressive scorer. He's pretty bad at it, really, when we task him to push his volume. And one super-hot month of volume shooting from 3 doesn't really change that, and that's essentially what defined his 2023-2024 season. Obviously, you put AG in a focal scoring role, he tails off considerably as well. He isn't any more suited to that role than Scottie. Both should be complementary players, 100%.

[YogurtProducer]

So because he had attitude issues, we should look at the one season where he was reasonable?

Yes, it makes more sense to look at seasons in which he was not traded mid-season. His efficiency tanked following the trade into a new situation.

But again, Fox is a 96 TS+ scorer on his career.

No, he is a 98. And over the last couple years he has been 103, 98, & 97.

RJ is a 93 TS+ scorer who has been at 100 and 95 the past two years with us on pretty reasonable volume.

You bring up RJs volume, but not Fox's which is even higher?

Bail-out shots, I don't really care about.

You mean context? You HAVE to consider role and situations when comparing players. Fox is the #1 guy on SAC and has to create everything for himself, whereas RJ plays off of guys and gets his points handed to him. If Fox was able to scale down into a lesser role like RJ currently has his efficiency would go up. If RJ had to take 21 shots per night in a year like Fox did he efficiency would tank. You NEED to consider that.

And remember, Fox has two seasons north of 32.4% from three. He's highly inconsistent.

So let's look at that a little more closely.

Spoiler:

De'Aaron Fox ATB 3P%

2018: 31.3%, 1.6 3PA/g
2019: 38.4%, 2.4 3PA/g
2020: 31.6%, 3.0 3PA/g
2021: 31.6%, 5.0 3PA/g
2022: 30.8%, 3.6 3PA/g
2023: 33.4%, 4.4 3PA/g
2024: 36.1%, 6.7 3PA/g
2025: 30.4%, 5.0 3PA/g

Now let's look at the same for RJ:

2020: 30.0%, 2.3 3PA/g
2021: 37.3%, 2.3 3PA/g
2022: 35.0%, 4.2 3PA/g
2023: 30.3%, 3.8 3PA/g
2024: 34.0%, 2.7 3PA/g (with us)
2025: 33.3%, 4.0 3PA/g

So you'll notice how Fox has two seasons of competent shooting above the break, four seasons under 32% and then one at 33.4%? And how RJ has two seasons of 35%+, and then two more at 33.3 - 34.0%? They're not that distant as 3pt shooters, and there is a reason RJ is ahead on career 3P% at this time 34.6% to 33.0%. He's definitely a better corner shooter, and he's approximately as good above the break. Lesser volume, to be sure, but Fox has mostly put up bad ATB shooting seasons. It's not an area where you want to lean in for a strength.

This is again ignoring all context. RJ shoots C+S threes. Fox shoots a ton of pullups he had to create. RJ shoots almost no pull up 3's whereas Fox takes multiple per game. Just compare their C+S #'s

YEAR / RJ / FOX
2025 - 36% / 32%
2024 - 37% / 39%
2023 - 32% / 34%
2022 - 37% / 35%
2021 - 41% / 39%

So really, there is no fundamental difference in the 3 point shooting other than shot diet. RJ is NOT a better 3 point shooter. His role just allows him to shoot a higher proportion of corner, open, or catch and shoot shots in comparison to Fox.

[YogurtProducer]

I agree that AG's performance is due to his role and his teammates. He's also improved considerably at shooting inside those parameters. But I think he does a better job inside that role than would Scottie, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier posts.

I mean, he had a normal progression that once he got to DEN he was able to reign in his shot diet and saw his efficiency explode. This is literally the Fox argument from above in which once he was not the #1/#2 on a team he "got" way, way better. We both damn well know before his trade to DEN you would not be saying Gordon > Barnes.

Scottie isn't an impressive scorer. He's pretty bad at it, really, when we task him to push his volume. And one super-hot month of volume shooting from 3 doesn't really change that, and that's essentially what defined his 2023-2024 season. Obviously, you put AG in a focal scoring role, he tails off considerably as well. He isn't any more suited to that role than Scottie. Both should be complementary players, 100%.

Okay, but Scottie IS significantly better in a scoring/top role than Gordon ever was, and also has the exact same strengths defensively.

Gordon has been a 15/6/3 guy in DEN. You don't think Barnes would be providing better rebounding or playmaking than Gordon? Defensively it is a wash, and Gordon hasn't exactly lit it up from 3 until this season (and as you said, one super-hot year of low volume 3 point shooting doesn't really change much).

Fun fact - Aaron Gordon was asked "who the next Aaron Gordon was" (aka - miscast who would thrive as a role player), and he answered Scottie Barnes.

[James_Raptors]

Wow, some crazy takes going on this summer. Bring on the regular season.
Yikes.

[ConSarnit]

I agree that AG's performance is due to his role and his teammates. He's also improved considerably at shooting inside those parameters. But I think he does a better job inside that role than would Scottie, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier posts.

I mean, he had a normal progression that once he got to DEN he was able to reign in his shot diet and saw his efficiency explode. This is literally the Fox argument from above in which once he was not the #1/#2 on a team he "got" way, way better. We both damn well know before his trade to DEN you would not be saying Gordon > Barnes.

Scottie isn't an impressive scorer. He's pretty bad at it, really, when we task him to push his volume. And one super-hot month of volume shooting from 3 doesn't really change that, and that's essentially what defined his 2023-2024 season. Obviously, you put AG in a focal scoring role, he tails off considerably as well. He isn't any more suited to that role than Scottie. Both should be complementary players, 100%.

Okay, but Scottie IS significantly better in a scoring/top role than Gordon ever was, and also has the exact same strengths defensively.

Gordon has been a 15/6/3 guy in DEN. You don't think Barnes would be providing better rebounding or playmaking than Gordon? Defensively it is a wash, and Gordon hasn't exactly lit it up from 3 until this season (and as you said, one super-hot year of low volume 3 point shooting doesn't really change much).

Fun fact - Aaron Gordon was asked "who the next Aaron Gordon was" (aka - miscast who would thrive as a role player), and he answered Scottie Barnes.

Rebounding? Probably not. Career reb%:

Gordon: 11.7%

Barnes: 11.9%

Playmaking: without question.

I also don't agree that they have the same strengths defensively. Gordon is better suited guarding bigger wings than Barnes. Better at switching onto guard too. Barnes is better suited to provide supplementary rim protection/help defense. Gordon plays more like a wing defensively. He has better mobility. Barnes plays more like a pf/c. Barnes consistently defends more rim attempts. There is some overlap but it's not the same imo.

[GLF]

Wow, some crazy takes going on this summer. Bring on the regular season.
Yikes.

Yea it’s getting wild out here. No context is being taken for anything. RJ better than Fox, Aaron better than Scottie…I just… The level of low some people are on Scottie offensively is getting a bit ridiculous, especially with how early in his career we still are and how young he still is. Anyway, definitely will not be getting into any back and forth with anyone at this point. Bring on the regular season. The dog days have people losing their minds lol

[tsherkin]

But again, Fox is a 96 TS+ scorer on his career.

No, he is a 98. And over the last couple years he has been 103, 98, & 97.

FML, I'm not doing great on this one, lol. The lysdexia is strong. It doesn't change my point, but good catch.

[quoteYou mean context? You HAVE to consider role and situations when comparing players. Fox is the #1 guy on SAC and has to create everything for himself, whereas RJ plays off of guys and gets his points handed to him. If Fox was able to scale down into a lesser role like RJ currently has his efficiency would go up. If RJ had to take 21 shots per night in a year like Fox did he efficiency would tank. You NEED to consider that.[/quote]

Sure, but again, he's not a reliable ATB 3pt shooter. He's not a monster at the rim. He's not better at drawing fouls. The list of things here that set him meaningfully apart from RJ isn't large, other than FT%. Which is a legit factor to consider, to be sure, but in the scheme of who distances themselves more from the other, it doesn't change too much of my opinion of Fox.

This is again ignoring all context. RJ shoots C+S threes. Fox shoots a ton of pullups he had to create. RJ shoots almost no pull up 3's whereas Fox takes multiple per game. Just compare their C+S #'s

YEAR / RJ / FOX
2025 - 36% / 32%
2024 - 37% / 39%
2023 - 32% / 34%
2022 - 37% / 35%
2021 - 41% / 39%

So really, there is no fundamental difference in the 3 point shooting other than shot diet. RJ is NOT a better 3 point shooter. His role just allows him to shoot a higher proportion of corner, open, or catch and shoot shots in comparison to Fox.

That's fine, this really just reinforces my point. It's not an area of relative strength for Fox relative to RJ. Even in your C+S selection, they have an equivalent number of quality seasons.

So maybe you can author an argument that using Fox in a little bit more of a C+S role might up his efficiency some, but for example this year? They also took the same number of 3s with a defender no where near them (2.6 for Fox, 2.8 for RJ). And Barrett actually shot notably better on them, 38.4% vs 33.7% for Fox.

Meantime, Fox took 1.3 of his shots with 18-22 seconds left on the clock, and another 1.1 with 15-18 seconds. Those are basically transition pull-ups or otherwise ahead of the defense, aka low-energy/effort shots. He shot 31.3% with 15-18 seconds left and 25.0% with 18-22 left. Him walking up and taking those wide-open 3s was not a strong proposition for him. This is part of WHY he is a weak ATB shooter. A year before in 2024, he was blazing away on those shots. In 2023, he was again atrocious. In 2022, he was a little under 35% in those times. In 2021, about 33 and 37%.

So, inconsistent, as he has generally been ATB.

But those mostly aren't shots where he's working hard to create them. He isn't that impressive when he DOES get C+S action, though he seems a little more capable on C+S ATB than Barrett, who's best seasons do come with higher corner representation.

I think the difference between them, beyond the mechanics of how they score, is more about their FT% than anything else. Fox is a better mid-range shooter, and RJ is a lot better at getting to the rim. Neither is a particularly good volume option, both are best-suited to optimized situations behind a real focal option, and neither should be taking 16+ FGA/g. And between the two inside that set of parameters, I'd rather have the guy who applies better rim pressure.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I have my doubts.

*this alone is enough to invalidate his contract.

[YogurtProducer]

I think the difference between them, beyond the mechanics of how they score, is more about their FT% than anything else. Fox is a better mid-range shooter, and RJ is a lot better at getting to the rim. Neither is a particularly good volume option, both are best-suited to optimized situations behind a real focal option, and neither should be taking 16+ FGA/g. And between the two inside that set of parameters, I'd rather have the guy who applies better rim pressure.

I mean. I think it’s just crazy how you look at Fox who’s been more efficient on significantly higher volume and conclude they’re similar or whatever. They’re really not close at all - fox is just much better.


Same with the 3 point shooting. You keep bringing up “above the break” but again ignore that Fox takes different, more difficult, 3’s than RJ does.

Give Fox a few better teammates and put him in RJs role and suddenly he’s not forced to jack up 20 shots a night and his efficiency would rise.

It’s like you’re for some reason penalizing Fox for being to good and as a result having more offensive responsibility and defensive attention.

[James_Raptors]

Last season, Aaron Gordon was one of the worst defensive players on the Denver Nuggets last season, not just among the starting line-up, but including the bench. He was dead last in DRtg (120 lol) during the regular season, and a lovely 119 DRtg in the playoffs, which was also tied for dead last. His DBPM was -0.9 during the regular season, and -0.9 in the playoffs. He's been a net negative defensively over his entire career , reg-season and post-season combined.

Offensively, whether you compare Aaron's first 4 seasons, his age 20-23 seasons, or his last 5 seasons, you'll note a heavy emphasis on dunks and 3pt shooting.

-'15-'19 35% of his Fg's came from within 0-3 ft (.677 FG%) and 32% from 3PT (32.1%)
Over those first 5 seasons with Orlando, 50.2% of his 2PT'ers were assisted and 85.9% of his 3's.

-'21-'25, 42% of Fg's came from within 0-3 ft. (.750 FG%) and (rounded up) 28% from 3PT (34.9%)
Over that 5 season stretch, 60.5% of his 2PT'ers were assisted, and 82.9% of his 3's.

You'll note that Aaron is a career 33.1% 3PT over his career. And his first 3 seasons he shot 27.1%, 29.6% and 28.8% from deep.
From '15 t'ill '20, the season before he was traded, Aaron Gordon put up a TS of .531 over those 403 games (314 starts)

As fer Scottie Barnes, he has averaged 28.9% of his FG's between 3-10 FT (.454), 25.5% from 0-3FT (.704) and 25.1% from 3PT (.300)
45.5% of his 2PT'ers were assisted and 83.9% of his 3PTers were assisted.

Career Aaron Gordon vs Scottie Barnes (% of FGA by Distance and FG% by distance)
0-3FT: 37.9% (71.4%) vs 25.5% (.70.4%)
3-10FT: 14.2% (36.6%) vs 28.9% (45.4%)
10-16FT: 9.8% (36.7%) vs 11.8% (39.1%)
16-3PT: 7.8% (31.3%) vs 8.0% (38.4%)
3P: 30.1% (33.1%) vs 25.1% (30.0%)

55.2% of Aaron Gordon's FG's are assisted on vs 45.5% for Scottie Barnes

Averaged out over their first 4 seasons:
Aaron Gordon (age 19-23):
12.5/6.2/2.2/0.8/0.6
.450/.321
TS .534
PER 15.3
VORP 4.7

Aaron Gordon (age 20-24):
13.8/6.8/2.6/0.8/0.7
.448/.321
TS .531
PER 15.6
VORP 5.8
BPM 0.2

VS

Scottie Barnes (age 20-24)
17.2/7.5/5.0/1.2/1.0
.466/.300
TS .541
PER 17.1
VORP 8.9
BPM 1.7

Aaron started his career with Orlando, and for the first 4 seasons they (Magic) were trash winning a total of 114 games over that stretch. I noted that in his age 24 season, the Magic went 42-40. I bring this up in order to properly compare the quality of teams he started on as a rookie and beyond. If you compare Aaron's age 20-24 and the record of the Magic over that stretch, it's 131 wins vs Scottie's 144. Aaron Gordon has started all but 98 of his NBA career games.

Scottie started his career with Toronto and for the first 4 seasons they (Raptors) won 144 games over that stretch. I bring this up in order to properly compare the quality of teams he started on as a rookie and beyond. Scottie has started all but 1 of his NBA career games.

==========================================
Aaron Gordon:
-Over the last 4 seasons (plus 25 games) Aaron Gordon has played alongside the MVP of the NBA
-Aaron was 17th in all-rookie shares (0.019) and has never been to a single All-Star game (oops, dunk contests!!!). He was 29th ('23) and 20th ('24) in all defensive voting shares
-Mr Gordon has 2 triple-doubles over his entire 12 season career

-Scottie Barnes just finished the '25 season, playing with one the top (worst) teams for man-games-lost-due-to-injury.
-Scottie Barnes was 1st in All-Rookie voting shares (and won RoY), 1 All-Star appearance ('24). He was 25th ('22) and 29th ('23) in All Defensive voting shares.
-Mr Barnes has 6 triple doubles over his first 720 NBA games.
=============================================

In summation, comparing Scottie vs Aaron is a bit ridiculous to put it mildly. Aaron Gordon is/was an athletic dunker who has been a net negative defensively over his career and a 32.3% 3PT shooting going into last season (re: that's horrible). Granted, he shot great last year from deep (43.6%) and still finished, with a lower VORP than Scottie has ever had in his career, all while playing along-side one of this generations greatest NBA superstars (Joker). On one hand Scottie is being depicted as a guy who can never shoot the 3PTer and yet Aaron Gordon shot under 30% (Scottie's career avg) in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd season in the NBA. But somehow Scottie, who has much more responsibilities on his shoulders, including trying to be a primarily ball-handler at times, and attempting to develop a mini mid game. You'll note that Scottie shoots a greater fg% from 3-10, 10-16 and 16-3PT and takes more attempts (% of overall FGA). Aaron is also a career 69.3% FT shooter, despite shooting 81% from the charity stripe last season. Note he shot 65.8% and 60.8% the 2 seasons prior. In fact, in 2024 Aaron shot 29% from 3 and 65.8 from the FT line that season over 73 games.

Scottie has a career 27.7% AST %
Aaron has a career 13.6% AST%
Scottie's TRB%, STL% and BLK% are all higher as well

The key when comparing the two is to understand that Aaron's game is what it is, limited at best, over his entire career, whereas Scottie is at least trying to build a more complete, fuller game, which (theoretically) will make him more difficult to defend and allow for a more versatile variety of ways to score. When comparing the two it's actually difficult to find statistics that back up Aaron being better at, practically, anything. And if you don't think Scottie Barnes is going to improve, get more efficient, get better looks, cut down on his TOV% (which Aaron has him beat on, over his career) as Toronto improves it's team and roster, then I have a rock to sell ya, and it surely ain't Newfoundland (we call it The Rock, for obvious reasons).

Looks to me, like someone looked up Aaron's stats last season (50 games) and got a wee bit carried away. Same for Scottie's, after an injury mired season where the franchise was intentionally trying to lose and pulling a bunch of annoying shenanigans. My humble suggestion is that when attempting to make these sorts of comparisons (and I won't even get into the Fox vs RJ....) do a bit more research.

[James_Raptors]

In summation, Fox > RJ, but not by as much as some people might think. And I'm not a fan of De'Aaron Fox at all. Both are inefficient high USG players and defensive liabilities. They better hope a change in scenery improves their game, on both ends of the court.

Coming into last season RJ was a negative VORP player over his career, let that sink in. He was constantly among the very worst on the Knicks in any and all meaningful analytical data. I don't want to touch his next contract with a ten-foot-pole. Barrett simply isn't a good NBA shooter. The dude shot 63% from the dang charity stripe last season and under 70% for his career. And (some) people will mention his slashing and getting to the rim percentages, which were at/near the top of the NBA. A) that's virtually the only part of "his game" that he has going for him and B) take a closer look at his efficiency at the rim, not just his total attempts (I'll give you a hint, but it's pretty obvious what the answer is). 62% over his career isn't "good" btw, unless you think that 32 game sample in '24 (73.1%) is his REAL new-found-prowess at da rim. Only 10% (technically 10.2%) of his career FGA come from 10ft-3PT.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If RJ's bad, comp that contract to Scotties. Like, if Giddy can't get 30M and we can't find a buyer for RJ at 27M.

Even worse if he goes "pass first" this year and his stats drop.

[bballsparkin]

If Barnes winds up being an Aaron Gordon level player or a Lamar Odom I don't see that as a bad thing. Those guys both had very successful careers. Both #4 OA picks who started out at as trying to be the man and later fitting into as crucial pieces on championship winning teams. I'll take that as a baseline for Scottie.

[bballsparkin]

I have my doubts.

*this alone is enough to invalidate his contract.

IDK, that's kinda funny. The pearl necklace to me was worse. You gotta win the game when you show up dressed like that!