OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[raptorstime]

They going to keep malls open still?

I think so. Man, the government has really failed us.

[KL78192020]

This shut down is so half assed. Alot of people will go out of the GTA, I remember last time gyms outside of the GTA were packed. The main thing that changed wasn't gyms or restaurant's in the last month, it was reopening schools.

[Ackshun]

"shutting them down and affecting thousands of peoples livelihood again should require more than just a general "these are high risk activities" statement (which would be far more applicable before restrictions were in place)"

well people are getting covid19 and dying. These places generally spread the disease. I think that's why they're getting shut down. How much of a standard do you need? How much proof is required IYO?

"These places". I think that's exactly what he meant by blanket statements.

I run a restaurant in Durham serving just under 3000 meals per week. Our other location in Durham serves about the same. Yet, none of my 124 employees have contracted the virus. None of their families. Nobody in our second location either. Have not heard of any cases since we opened in June come through our building even though everyone has the Ontario app on their phone.

Most restaurants are doing everything needed to create a safe environment. The government should target the ones that are not, instead of scapegoating an entire industry.

That would be tough to do because tomorrow some idiot can come into your restaurant with the virus, take his/her mask off to eat and spread it. It's more of protecting people from themselves than criticizing businesses. All people need to do is follow guidelines and now the numbers are swinging to the young who are more active.

It sucks for businesses but it has to be controlled now before it escalates.

See i support shutting down restaurants if statistics prove it needs mandating, but it just feels so half measured. My guess is that rates stay up even with this announcement and then we need to go further into a lock down.

[Raps in 4]

They going to keep malls open still?

Holiday shopping season trumps public safety.

[Tor_Raps]

This shut down is so half assed. Alot of people will go out of the GTA, I remember last time gyms outside of the GTA were packed. The main thing that changed wasn't gyms or restaurant's in the last month, it was reopening schools.

Exactly man. Reopening schools and trusting kids to adhere to something they don't fully understand is just plain stupid. Gyms/restaurants were all open with success before schools opened. It should be common sense as to what decision failed the public...

[Westside Gunn]

Lots of vacancies in Oshawa.

I always find it funny when people complain about the real estate and rent prices in Toronto as though they're entitled to HAVE to live in the big city. London, Paris, New York, Tokyo and Shanghai all make Toronto look like a bargain.

You want to live in a world class city, but want to pay peanuts to do so. That's not how it works.

Most people living in Toronto work in Toronto. Commuting 3+ hours back and forth from work every day is a waste of life.

Apparently it's not problematic that the bungalow in Etobicoke which costed $350,000 in 2001 and now costs 1.6 million since we're a "world class city". But hey, you can pay $400,000 for that same bungalow in the 'Shwa. Thank God for Spotify and the Joe Rogan Experience, you can actually improve yourself every day!

pre rona, a lot of people that work in toronto or the gta are actually commuting 3+ hours. its just the way things have been. specially with developers building communities around go transit stations. thats the new sell for these developers. look at people that commute from barrie to toronto losing all that time in their lives, because their wages can't support rent or ownership even within a 50km radius, which is bloody **** ridiculous. people in barrie can't afford barrie, because people that work in toronto move to barrie to barely afford barrie. see the problem with this?

the world class cities listed on the post by metro, except Shanghai, all have one problem, massive foreign investment. yes, you're not entitled to live in the big city, but canadian citizens definitely have the right to protest to policy makers for being priced out in their own countries for the interest of foreign money launderers and investors. try buying something in shanghai, maybe we should have the same rules they have for the best interests of the people in this country?

but, lets keep printing money and keep the party goin

[Westside Gunn]

The boomers do mind because they are stuck with adult children in their houses.

Lol, sadly those adult children aren't exactly keen on lining up to buy a 400k single bedroom condo, since those are the only things being made. Maybe they'd like to pay $700 to rent one among 6 rooms owned by some foreigner in North York, who was smart enough hire a good accountant and a good lawyer to find loopholes in their own capital outflow laws and our porous AML regulations. Are you actually naive enough to think home prices inflating 100% in the last 15 years is because of the strength of our economy? Wages haven't risen that much.

Fact is is that this city has San Francisco housing prices with people making Saskethewan wages.

Lots of vacancies in Oshawa.

I always find it funny when people complain about the real estate and rent prices in Toronto as though they're entitled to HAVE to live in the big city. London, Paris, New York, Tokyo and Shanghai all make Toronto look like a bargain.

You want to live in a world class city, but want to pay peanuts to do so. That's not how it works.

Shwa also underwent a major gentrification. People that have been in shwa can't move anywhere else in shwa. The toronto spillover has pretty much **** over all mid to small communities and cities in ontario.

[mtcan]

This shut down is so half assed. Alot of people will go out of the GTA, I remember last time gyms outside of the GTA were packed. The main thing that changed wasn't gyms or restaurant's in the last month, it was reopening schools.

Exactly man. Reopening schools and trusting kids to adhere to something they don't fully understand is just plain stupid. Gyms/restaurants were all open with success before schools opened. It should be common sense as to what decision failed the public...

Cases were on the rise before school started. In Toronto...public schools opened the week of September 15. Look at the rise in cases that were happening then already.

The rise in cases started late August already. This has everything to do with people's stupidity and with stage 3 of opening...which started in beginning of August.

Opening of schools isn't helping...but cases counts were rising long before that.

[Tor_Raps]

This shut down is so half assed. Alot of people will go out of the GTA, I remember last time gyms outside of the GTA were packed. The main thing that changed wasn't gyms or restaurant's in the last month, it was reopening schools.

Exactly man. Reopening schools and trusting kids to adhere to something they don't fully understand is just plain stupid. Gyms/restaurants were all open with success before schools opened. It should be common sense as to what decision failed the public...

Cases were on the rise before school started. In Toronto...public schools opened the week of September 15. Look at the rise in cases that were happening then already.

The rise in cases started late August already. This has everything to do with people's stupidity and with stage 3 of opening...which started in beginning of August.

Opening of schools isn't helping...but cases counts were rising long before that.

Opening schools when you already presented an alternative was needlessly making a situation worse. On top of that, you hire a bunch of other teachers to teach online using more tax money on a duplication of roles. They should have used all the time during the layoff to convert their current staff to online.

This was just a common sense item that should have been avoided, which is the frustrating part. Cops should have been strictly handing out fines to those who were not complying instead of punishing everyone.

[ItsDanger]

If this was the private sector and management applied same procedures with consistent failure, they would be fired and replaced. In my experience, the best talent is not in the public sector. Its time for honest discourse on this issue. We have not had that since the start.

[Raps in 4]

If this was the private sector and management applied same procedures with consistent failure, they would be fired and replaced. In my experience, the best talent is not in the public sector. Its time for honest discourse on this issue. We have not had that since the start.

You're right. Conservative parties usually don't consist of the brightest minds. Doug is a prime example of that.

[galeon110]

Lol, sadly those adult children aren't exactly keen on lining up to buy a 400k single bedroom condo, since those are the only things being made. Maybe they'd like to pay $700 to rent one among 6 rooms owned by some foreigner in North York, who was smart enough hire a good accountant and a good lawyer to find loopholes in their own capital outflow laws and our porous AML regulations. Are you actually naive enough to think home prices inflating 100% in the last 15 years is because of the strength of our economy? Wages haven't risen that much.

Fact is is that this city has San Francisco housing prices with people making Saskethewan wages.

Lots of vacancies in Oshawa.

I always find it funny when people complain about the real estate and rent prices in Toronto as though they're entitled to HAVE to live in the big city. London, Paris, New York, Tokyo and Shanghai all make Toronto look like a bargain.

You want to live in a world class city, but want to pay peanuts to do so. That's not how it works.

Shwa also underwent a major gentrification. People that have been in shwa can't move anywhere else in shwa. The toronto spillover has pretty much **** over all mid to small communities and cities in ontario.

Since when was Oshawa called shwa? lolll what an awful name

[Local_NG_Idiot]

If this was the private sector and management applied same procedures with consistent failure, they would be fired and replaced. In my experience, the best talent is not in the public sector. Its time for honest discourse on this issue. We have not had that since the start.

You're right. Conservative parties usually don't consist of the brightest minds. Doug is a prime example of that.

And yet, private businesses are the ones with the majority of major outbreaks.

you can go back more than a month and Ford & Co. were already stating #s were rising and they would take the necessary measures if the public couldn't abide by the guidelines. Him and Elliott back early-mid September stated it was a percentage of people "getting lax with the guidelines" Ford on September 14th stated: "I'm begging you please, just cut out the social gatherings". They knew then the uptick in cases were at social gatherings and people in public businesses getting lax with the guidelines and they communicated that to the public constantly, it just fell on deaf ears.

Sorry, it wasn't the Ontario government this time that was dumb or that failed, it was people who are unwilling to follow some simple guidelines.

[Klayforspicy]

A soft lockdown is not gonna work, its essentially the same thing as being open. However, I understand another lockdown would ruin some people I know.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The government is also at fault. Ford has been caught maskless at a wedding and violating their own rules multiple times. So, it's easy for him and Elliot to lay blame at the faceless "social gatherers" but he has no credibility to call them out. Roll back to August, where he was busy making snarky comments about the head of the teacher's union instead of getting ahead of this thing (which he was warned about). Look back to one week where he claimed they had flattened the curve at around 500 a day. The central problem these guys have is that they're battling both doctors and teachers, so two well educated factions in our society. The conservatives were able to maintain popularity because the United States was such a gong show that Ford could effectively distance himself from his Trumpian qualities. He was able to convey that he was doing a good job simply because they were doing a bad job. Now all his inaction and squabbling with the educated class will come back to bite him.

[TorontoRapsFan]

If this was the private sector and management applied same procedures with consistent failure, they would be fired and replaced. In my experience, the best talent is not in the public sector. Its time for honest discourse on this issue. We have not had that since the start.

This is a fallacy. I say this from personal experience but most of management is made up of people who are great at making it look like they are competent and diligent with great work ethic while their work is half assed, filled with inattentiveness, and their personnel management is horrible. Their small mistakes and half assed work tends to create problems that snowball for the people who do 'the work on the ground' (not sure the best phrase for this), and the fact that the actual cause, the managers incompetence, tends to go unnoticed continues a vicious circle. These types of managers also have a habit creating a hostile work environment where the rest of the staff then become discontent and also start making it look like they are doing a good job, where mistakes and shortcomings and whatever difficulties are treated as something that would hopefully not get noticed rather than discussed, learned from and lead to improvements. This is true of all sectors. It's a cultural infection where a certain type of person gets management job while rarely do truly good managers get found and employed. What makes it more noticeable in the public sector is the lower amount of funding available, translating into a smaller workforce along with less time and more work. And one of the more bigger contributors to all of it has been the impact of 'educated' management/organization consultant work that takes business models from books that are shallowly and loosely applied in public and private sectors because those also tend to be the type of people who tend to excell at selling you on things rather than actually doing hard work.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

The government is also at fault. Ford has been caught maskless at a wedding and violating their own rules multiple times. So, it's easy for him and Elliot to lay blame at the faceless "social gatherers" but he has no credibility to call them out. Roll back to August, where he was busy making snarky comments about the head of the teacher's union instead of getting ahead of this thing (which he was warned about). Look back to one week where he claimed they had flattened the curve at around 500 a day. The central problem these guys have is that they're battling both doctors and teachers, so two well educated factions in our society. The conservatives were able to maintain popularity because the United States was such a gong show that Ford could effectively distance himself from his Trumpian qualities. He was able to convey that he was doing a good job simply because they were doing a bad job. Now all his inaction and squabbling with the educated class will come back to bite him.

I didn't state that the PC's have been perfect in their planning and execution of this, merely not dumb nor have they failed.

What's with this 'educated class' comments though. Elliott, Mona Nemer, Dr. Williams, Dr. Eileen de Villa, etc... are not part of an educated class?

[ATLTimekeeper]

I mean, De Villa was out there trying to get them to act sooner, so yeah, I expect the general tenor of the medical community to continue to stick up for the interests of the people. Much like we saw with the teachers earlier.

This is a shared problem, where people acted irresponsibly and the government lost credibility over the summer. And now we're going to take a hit here. It's not just "social gatherings."

[Local_NG_Idiot]

I mean, De Villa was out there trying to get them to act sooner, so yeah, I expect the general tenor of the medical community to continue to stick up for the interests of the people. Much like we saw with the teachers earlier.

This is a shared problem, where people acted irresponsibly and the government lost credibility over the summer. And now we're going to take a hit here. It's not just "social gatherings."

I agree that it isn't just 'social gatherings' and didn't state that. It's also the public not following De Villa's, Williams' and other experts' guidelines of proper social distancing, how to wear a mask PROPERLY and the where/when to wear them, continuing with disinfection, etc...

As far as the experts and government? Yea, they have dropped the ball somewhat on identifying that the virus is aerosolized and have dragged their feet on this point as well as additional testing infrastructure for this fall and winter.

While it's shared, a larger majority of this share still lands on personal accountability at this point.

[NBA Sheady]

"shutting them down and affecting thousands of peoples livelihood again should require more than just a general "these are high risk activities" statement (which would be far more applicable before restrictions were in place)"

well people are getting covid19 and dying. These places generally spread the disease. I think that's why they're getting shut down. How much of a standard do you need? How much proof is required IYO?

"These places". I think that's exactly what he meant by blanket statements.

I run a restaurant in Durham serving just under 3000 meals per week. Our other location in Durham serves about the same. Yet, none of my 124 employees have contracted the virus. None of their families. Nobody in our second location either. Have not heard of any cases since we opened in June come through our building even though everyone has the Ontario app on their phone.

Most restaurants are doing everything needed to create a safe environment. The government should target the ones that are not, instead of scapegoating an entire industry.

This is a great point. I live on Dundas near Dovercourt. Several barber shops/salons on my street. I have reported Wavy Cuts 3 times for not following protocols and nothing has been done. The other shops are always on point.