Tank World Order

[MavCarter]

Also casey was a higher seed every year we made the playoffs and struggled to beat(and even got beat) by lower seeds every single year

[mademan]

Yes when you take away something as small as a championship him and casey are exactly even!

And forget that 1 team had Kawhi and the other didnt too. Like i said, Nurse is awesome and i do think he's a top tier coach. But Casey was a COTY at one point too, and dude might not find another coaching position after Detroit. Chit moves fast like that in the NBA for coaches

Has there been any coach in league history that won a championship without a superstar? Only miserable raptors fans would find a way to downplay what they have. Its not like the east was a walk in the park and the raptors were SO much more talented than the bucks/sixers/celts etc that year

tf are u arguing? All i said was that Nurse's track record without Kawhi on the Raps isnt any different than Casey's. Is that not true? I was replying to someone saying Nurse is gonna want out. All i said was he should be humble that he's got a team paying him as much as we are, cause coaching in the league is fickle.

[mademan]

Also casey was a higher seed every year we made the playoffs and struggled to beat(and even got beat) by lower seeds every single year

like losing to the C's last year without Hayward?

[MavCarter]

And forget that 1 team had Kawhi and the other didnt too. Like i said, Nurse is awesome and i do think he's a top tier coach. But Casey was a COTY at one point too, and dude might not find another coaching position after Detroit. Chit moves fast like that in the NBA for coaches

Has there been any coach in league history that won a championship without a superstar? Only miserable raptors fans would find a way to downplay what they have. Its not like the east was a walk in the park and the raptors were SO much more talented than the bucks/sixers/celts etc that year

tf are u arguing? All i said was that Nurse's track record without Kawhi on the Raps isnt any different than Casey's. Is that not true? I was replying to someone saying Nurse is gonna want out. All i said was he should be humble that he's got a team paying him as much as we are, cause coaching in the league is fickle.

Yes and take away superstars from phil jackson, pop, pat riley etc and they're similar to casey too!!

[MavCarter]

Also casey was a higher seed every year we made the playoffs and struggled to beat(and even got beat) by lower seeds every single year

like losing to the C's last year without Hayward?

Yes losing to the Cs in 7 in the 2nd round is just like getting smoked by the wizards and almost losing to the paul george pacers in the first round. If the 2014 nets series was the only series we lost to a lower seed you'd have a point

[mademan]

Has there been any coach in league history that won a championship without a superstar? Only miserable raptors fans would find a way to downplay what they have. Its not like the east was a walk in the park and the raptors were SO much more talented than the bucks/sixers/celts etc that year

tf are u arguing? All i said was that Nurse's track record without Kawhi on the Raps isnt any different than Casey's. Is that not true? I was replying to someone saying Nurse is gonna want out. All i said was he should be humble that he's got a team paying him as much as we are, cause coaching in the league is fickle.

Yes and take away superstars from phil jackson, pop, pat riley etc and they're similar to casey too!!

except this is 1 team. We've seen the raps under Casey and under Nurse. We've seen both without a superstar and we've seen how theyve done.

[Dalek]

My tank mode would include a full nuclear option:

NYK is in the playoffs now, but lacks a consistent threat and leadership. I bet you Thibs would love Lowry and play him 40 mins.

Tor: Lowry
NYK: Ntilkina, Smith Jr, Knox, Bullock and a 2021 FRP

Philly could also use Powell in a sixth man role and is an upgrade over Korkmaz.

Tor: Powell
Phi: Bradley, Korkmaz, Ferguson, 2021 SRP

Pops would probably like to be in the playoffs again and Siakam would be a better fit than Aldridge. I imagine SA could do wonders for his game like they did with Gay.

Tor: Siakam
SA: Aldridge, Lyles, 2021 FRP

Toronto loads up on the draft and probably keeps a couple of those players for the future.

[mademan]

Also casey was a higher seed every year we made the playoffs and struggled to beat(and even got beat) by lower seeds every single year

like losing to the C's last year without Hayward?

Yes losing to the Cs in 7 in the 2nd round is just like getting smoked by the wizards and almost losing to the paul george pacers in the first round. If the 2014 nets series was the only series we lost to a lower seed you'd have a point

And which team actually had strong vets like Gasol and Ibaka? We're in shambleland right now without them

[MavCarter]

tf are u arguing? All i said was that Nurse's track record without Kawhi on the Raps isnt any different than Casey's. Is that not true? I was replying to someone saying Nurse is gonna want out. All i said was he should be humble that he's got a team paying him as much as we are, cause coaching in the league is fickle.

Yes and take away superstars from phil jackson, pop, pat riley etc and they're similar to casey too!!

except this is 1 team. We've seen the raps under Casey and under Nurse. We've seen both without a superstar and we've seen how theyve done.

You'd have a point if they had the exact same roster but they didn't. So no we haven't "seen the raps under casey and under nurse"

[Psubs]

The Magic are 5-2 but they got to get 2 wins vs Washington and 2 wins vs OKC. Oh wait, they split the games with OC but beat Miami. Also the 5th win is vs the Cavs yesterday and play them again tomorrow. That's quite the easy schedule to start.

If the Raptors had such a schedule, would they be 4-3 and none of this talk would matter as much? They at least beat the worst team they faced, the Knicks but even they have been playing well.

[MavCarter]

like losing to the C's last year without Hayward?

Yes losing to the Cs in 7 in the 2nd round is just like getting smoked by the wizards and almost losing to the paul george pacers in the first round. If the 2014 nets series was the only series we lost to a lower seed you'd have a point

And which team actually had strong vets like Gasol and Ibaka? We're in shambleland right now without them

You just made the claim that they're both similar without superstars but now having gasol/ibaka is what made nurse have the advantage with no superstar?

[mademan]

Yes losing to the Cs in 7 in the 2nd round is just like getting smoked by the wizards and almost losing to the paul george pacers in the first round. If the 2014 nets series was the only series we lost to a lower seed you'd have a point

And which team actually had strong vets like Gasol and Ibaka? We're in shambleland right now without them

You just made the claim that they're both similar without superstars but now having gasol/ibaka is what made nurse have the advantage with no superstar?

no, having vets made them have a 'respectable' loss to an undermanned lower seed instead of getting embarassed. (not so respectable, imo)

So hurray for Nurse, i guess?

and to be clear, we were 1 lucky azz shot and complete phuck up by Boston from being embarrassed.

[MavCarter]

And which team actually had strong vets like Gasol and Ibaka? We're in shambleland right now without them

You just made the claim that they're both similar without superstars but now having gasol/ibaka is what made nurse have the advantage with no superstar?

no, having vets made them have a 'respectable' loss to an undermanned lower seed instead of getting embarassed. (not so respectable, imo)

So hurray for Nurse, i guess?

Yes because having respectable vets is really what was missing when we were routinely getting outcoached by the likes of randy wittman. Forget the level of talent between last years raptors/celts team and the level of talent between those raptors teams casey coached compared to the talent levels of those first round matchups

[mademan]

You just made the claim that they're both similar without superstars but now having gasol/ibaka is what made nurse have the advantage with no superstar?

no, having vets made them have a 'respectable' loss to an undermanned lower seed instead of getting embarassed. (not so respectable, imo)

So hurray for Nurse, i guess?

Yes because having respectable vets is really what was missing when we were routinely getting outcoached by the likes of randy wittman. Forget the level of talent between last years raptors/celts team and the level of talent between those raptors teams casey coached compared to the talent levels of those first round matchups

so Raps didnt get outcoached last postseason?

[MavCarter]

no, having vets made them have a 'respectable' loss to an undermanned lower seed instead of getting embarassed. (not so respectable, imo)

So hurray for Nurse, i guess?

Yes because having respectable vets is really what was missing when we were routinely getting outcoached by the likes of randy wittman. Forget the level of talent between last years raptors/celts team and the level of talent between those raptors teams casey coached compared to the talent levels of those first round matchups

so Raps didnt get outcoached last postseason?

Two evenly matched teams roster wise going 7 is getting outcoached? What you do call one team with an inferior talent level pushing another to 7? Or even beating them?

[mademan]

Yes because having respectable vets is really what was missing when we were routinely getting outcoached by the likes of randy wittman. Forget the level of talent between last years raptors/celts team and the level of talent between those raptors teams casey coached compared to the talent levels of those first round matchups

so Raps didnt get outcoached last postseason?

Two evenly matched teams roster wise going 7 is getting outcoached? What you do call one team with an inferior talent level pushing another to 7? Or even beating them?

Who's this team with inferior talent? Did raps have 1 series with Casey where they had the best player? Not against the Nets, not against the Wiz, not against the Pacers.

NBA is a game of talent. Im not even saying this to disparage Nurse or prop up Casey. I think a coach can hurt you, but ultimately, youre as good as your best players. Raps won when they had the best players (2019, i think a case can be made for Philly) and lost when they didnt. Here and there a team wins without the best players, but it's a rarity.

People here prop up Nurse like he's a king or something, but it's always been Lowry. He's a RS superstar and so we're RS monsters. When the playoffs slow down, he becomes limited by his size and lack of top end athleticism. The Raps as a whole get exposed for having a lack of talent, and so they lose to objectively worse teams from the RS, like the C's last year, regardless of who's the coach.

[MavCarter]

so Raps didnt get outcoached last postseason?

Two evenly matched teams roster wise going 7 is getting outcoached? What you do call one team with an inferior talent level pushing another to 7? Or even beating them?

Who's this team with inferior talent? Did raps have 1 series with Casey where they had the best player? Not against the Nets, not against the Wiz, not against the Pacers.

NBA is a game of talent. Im not even saying this to disparage Nurse or prop up Casey. I think a coach can hurt you, but ultimately, youre as good as your best players. Raps won when they had the best players (2019, i think a case can be made for Philly) and lost when they didnt. Here and there a team wins without the best players, but it's a rarity.

People here prop up Nurse like he's a king or something, but it's always been Lowry. He's a RS superstar and so we're RS monsters. When the playoffs slow down, he becomes limited by his size and lack of top end athleticism. The Raps as a whole get exposed for having a lack of talent, and so they lose to objectively worse teams from the RS, like the C's last year, regardless of who's the coach.

If the "he didn't have the best player on the floor" excuse is being used for getting swept/struggling vs 7th seeds in the first round why isn't it being used when we take the superiorly talented celtics 7 games with regular season star kyle lowry? You're whole argument started by trying to discredit nurse winning a championship and using strawman argument points to put him in the same category as casey. Is it fair to say popovich is comparable to casey also because if you take away kawhi/tim duncan and all the championships and give them derozan instead they're isnt much difference? Lets just take away championships and superstars when talking about coaches now. They'll all be on the same level

[SFour]

The Magic are 5-2 but they got to get 2 wins vs Washington and 2 wins vs OKC. Oh wait, they split the games with OC but beat Miami. Also the 5th win is vs the Cavs yesterday and play them again tomorrow. That's quite the easy schedule to start.

If the Raptors had such a schedule, would they be 4-3 and none of this talk would matter as much? They at least beat the worst team they faced, the Knicks but even they have been playing well.

it's not about the schedule or record....all you have to do is use your eyes to see that the Raptors don't have it this season, they would be a 1st round exit if they made the playoffs, is that really what you want? it's a waste of time imo, I'd rather they get a lottery pick this season, try to sign Oladipo and then bounce back for the 2021-22 season.

If the Raptors were playing in Toronto in front of 20k fans then ok I understand not wanting to tank...but they're playing in Tampa this season in front of 1k Raptors fans at most.....they're pretty much playing an entire season on the road, so right away they're at a disadvantage.

[mademan]

Two evenly matched teams roster wise going 7 is getting outcoached? What you do call one team with an inferior talent level pushing another to 7? Or even beating them?

Who's this team with inferior talent? Did raps have 1 series with Casey where they had the best player? Not against the Nets, not against the Wiz, not against the Pacers.

NBA is a game of talent. Im not even saying this to disparage Nurse or prop up Casey. I think a coach can hurt you, but ultimately, youre as good as your best players. Raps won when they had the best players (2019, i think a case can be made for Philly) and lost when they didnt. Here and there a team wins without the best players, but it's a rarity.

People here prop up Nurse like he's a king or something, but it's always been Lowry. He's a RS superstar and so we're RS monsters. When the playoffs slow down, he becomes limited by his size and lack of top end athleticism. The Raps as a whole get exposed for having a lack of talent, and so they lose to objectively worse teams from the RS, like the C's last year, regardless of who's the coach.

If the "he didn't have the best player on the floor" excuse is being used for getting swept/struggling vs 7th seeds in the first round why isn't it being used when we take the superiorly talented celtics 7 games with regular season star kyle lowry? You're whole argument started by trying to discredit nurse winning a championship and using strawman argument points to put him in the same category as casey. Is it fair to say popovich is comparable to casey also because if you take away kawhi/tim duncan and all the championships and give them derozan instead they're isnt much difference? Lets just take away championships and superstars when talking about coaches now. They'll all be on the same level

The entirety of my argument was what i put in that last post. Coaches dont matter much. Bad coaches can really hurt you, but an average coach is not to different than a great coach, and it's near impossible to measure. Nurse winning and Casey losing boils down to 1 having the best team/player in every series he played and the other not having it. Thats the story of the league; the best players usually win. Nurse got put on a pedestal because of that when he shouldnt have

[mademan]

The Magic are 5-2 but they got to get 2 wins vs Washington and 2 wins vs OKC. Oh wait, they split the games with OC but beat Miami. Also the 5th win is vs the Cavs yesterday and play them again tomorrow. That's quite the easy schedule to start.

If the Raptors had such a schedule, would they be 4-3 and none of this talk would matter as much? They at least beat the worst team they faced, the Knicks but even they have been playing well.

it's not about the schedule or record....all you have to do is use your eyes to see that the Raptors don't have it this season, they would be a 1st round exit if they made the playoffs, is that really what you want? it's a waste of time imo, I'd rather they get a lottery pick this season, try to sign Oladipo and then bounce back for the 2021-22 season.

If the Raptors were playing in Toronto in front of 20k fans then ok I understand not wanting to tank...but they're playing in Tampa this season in front of 1k Raptors fans at most.....they're pretty much playing an entire season on the road, so right away they're at a disadvantage.

In the East, the Raps can still grind their way to a playoff spot by playing Lowry 38mpg or some crazy chit, but im not sure why that would be desirable. FO should communicate to Nurse that this is a development season, not a scrap and fight and run the starters into the ground for every last win type season