Trade Deadline Rumours & Discussion Thread II

[OakleyDokely]

Bench players are by definition not as good as the starters. So here's my question. If Masai actually furnished Nick with a "decent bench", would Nurse play them, or still ride his starters 40 minutes per game? Would Nick actually play Seth Curry, or Bones Nyland or Jose Alvarado or ... ? I don't see it. We'd have to have a bench of OG, Pascal and Fred-level players for them to get significant minutes.

Except for Patrick McCaw. If healthy, that guy would see 30-35 mpg.

I think a look at the 2020 team's minutes would tell a lot. No Kawhi, winning team, still good depth. I don't feel like looking it up though. But I'll guess no starter was playing as much as the starters now.

Regular season minutes, top 5:

18/19
1. Kawhi 34.0
2. Lowry: 34.0
3. Siakam 31.9
4. Green: 27.7
5. VanVleet: 27.5
Top 5 average: 31.0

19/20
1. Lowry: 36.2
2. VanVleet: 35.7
3. Siakam: 35.2
4. OG: 29.9
5. Powell: 28.4
Top 5 average: 33.1

20/21
1. VanVleet: 36.5
2. Siakam: 35.8
3. Lowry: 34.8
4. OG: 33.3
5. Trent: 31.8
Top 5 average: 34.4

21/22:
1. VanVleet 37.9
2. Siakam: 37.9
3. OG: 36.0
4. Barnes: 35.4
5. Trent: 35.0
Top 5 average: 36.4

22/23:
1. Siakam: 37.7
2. VanVleet: 36.9
3. OG: 35.8
4. Barnes: 34.8
5. Trent: 33.2
Top 5 average: 35.7


When Nurse had a lot of depth in the championship year, the Raps top players played very little. The season after Kawhi, minutes went up, but were still pretty reasonable. Minutes really didn't out of hand until the last couple years when the depth was depleted to a large extent.

[vulture]

His first answer is winning, then getting guys better to increase their value in the market place.
If that is selfish then I must be living in an alternate world.

Then why are we having these seeming conflicts this season with roles, who dominates the ball, etc?

I'm not in the locker room and neither are you.
This has been a disappointing season, but the raptors have been a winning organization for a decade now. to say that Nick Nurse is responsible for selfish basketball is just baseless speculation. They are top 10 on offense and 20th on defense, so the right question is why is the defense is so bad. Not some nonsense about selfish basketball.

The negativity around here is over the top.

I wouldn't say he promotes selfish basketball, but that the system is too free form considering the talent we have. There are clearly times when the ball moves and is shared more, and times when we go more iso heavy.

What measurement has us 10th in offense, I'm curious. Our half court offense is worse than that, isn't it?[/quote]

The team's offense is based on getting in transition. they play the lease amount of time in the half court like the Grizzlies.
The fact that they are top 10 on offense with this roster of no shooting and little rim pressure is a huge compliment to Nick Nurse.

The better question is why is the defense in the bottom 10 in the league? No being able to contain the ball and no rim protection would be the obvious answers.

[WaltFrazier]

Then why are we having these seeming conflicts this season with roles, who dominates the ball, etc?

I'm not in the locker room and neither are you.
This has been a disappointing season, but the raptors have been a winning organization for a decade now. to say that Nick Nurse is responsible for selfish basketball is just baseless speculation. They are top 10 on offense and 20th on defense, so the right question is why is the defense is so bad. Not some nonsense about selfish basketball.

The negativity around here is over the top.

I wouldn't say he promotes selfish basketball, but that the system is too free form considering the talent we have. There are clearly times when the ball moves and is shared more, and times when we go more iso heavy.

What measurement has us 10th in offense, I'm curious. Our half court offense is worse than that, isn't it?

The team's offense is based on getting in transition. they play the lease amount of time in the half court like the Grizzlies.
The fact that they are top 10 on offense with this roster of no shooting and little rim pressure is a huge compliment to Nick Nurse.

The better question is why is the defense in the bottom 10 in the league? No being able to contain the ball and no rim protection would be the obvious answers.[/quote]

Oh I agree on defense. despite having an elite defender in OG, we don't stop POA and we don't defend the rim well. A quicker guard who could keep the ball in front of him, and a rim protecting big are things we need.

On offense , in the playoffs transition gets reduced by the opponent and half court becomes more important. That will be our problem if we get in. But at least there's been a recent increase in ball movement, with Fred handling less and running through Scottie more.

[vulture]

I'm not in the locker room and neither are you.
This has been a disappointing season, but the raptors have been a winning organization for a decade now. to say that Nick Nurse is responsible for selfish basketball is just baseless speculation. They are top 10 on offense and 20th on defense, so the right question is why is the defense is so bad. Not some nonsense about selfish basketball.

The negativity around here is over the top.

I wouldn't say he promotes selfish basketball, but that the system is too free form considering the talent we have. There are clearly times when the ball moves and is shared more, and times when we go more iso heavy.

What measurement has us 10th in offense, I'm curious. Our half court offense is worse than that, isn't it?

The team's offense is based on getting in transition. they play the lease amount of time in the half court like the Grizzlies.
The fact that they are top 10 on offense with this roster of no shooting and little rim pressure is a huge compliment to Nick Nurse.

The better question is why is the defense in the bottom 10 in the league?

No being able to contain the ball and no rim protection would be the obvious answers

.

Oh I agree on defense. despite having an elite defender in OG, we don't stop POA and we don't defend the rim well. A quicker guard who could keep the ball in front of him, and a rim protecting big are things we need.

On offense , in the playoffs transition gets reduced by the opponent and half court becomes more important. That will be our problem if we get in. But at least there's been a recent increase in ball movement, with Fred handling less and running through Scottie more.[/quote]

The answer to this is you need a superstar in the playoffs. without one of those guys, you're not getting very far.
Scottie handling the ball isn't going to win playoff games right now.

[tanuki1031]

When the league covets three level scorers we covet three level mileage - guys who can start, play extended stretches, and finish in garbage time

[ForeverTFC]

I wouldn't say he promotes selfish basketball, but that the system is too free form considering the talent we have. There are clearly times when the ball moves and is shared more, and times when we go more iso heavy.

What measurement has us 10th in offense, I'm curious. Our half court offense is worse than that, isn't it?

The team's offense is based on getting in transition. they play the lease amount of time in the half court like the Grizzlies.
The fact that they are top 10 on offense with this roster of no shooting and little rim pressure is a huge compliment to Nick Nurse.

The better question is why is the defense in the bottom 10 in the league? No being able to contain the ball and no rim protection would be the obvious answers.

Oh I agree on defense. despite having an elite defender in OG, we don't stop POA and we don't defend the rim well. A quicker guard who could keep the ball in front of him, and a rim protecting big are things we need.

On offense , in the playoffs transition gets reduced by the opponent and half court becomes more important. That will be our problem if we get in. But at least there's been a recent increase in ball movement, with Fred handling less and running through Scottie more.

Fred talked a bit about this on the pod with Reddick in Jan. He said the main issue they're facing is being able to control the "push ahead pass" after a miss. The league is countering our aggressive offensive rebound hunting by getting into their offense a lot faster. At least that's what it sounded to me from the interview. Not sure if we can look at some numbers to try and validate this.

[pingpongrac]

Fred talked a bit about this on the pod with Reddick in Jan. He said the main issue their facing is being able to control the "push ahead pass" after a miss. The league is countering our aggressive offensive rebound hunting by getting into their offense a lot faster. At least that's what it sounded to me from the interview. Not sure if we can look at some numbers to try and validate this.

Last season opponents scored 11.7 PPG in transition against us which was 9th best in the league whereas opponents are scoring 15.4 PPG in transition against us which is 27th. That is a huge swing that aligns with what FVV/you are saying.

[ForeverTFC]

Fred talked a bit about this on the pod with Reddick in Jan. He said the main issue their facing is being able to control the "push ahead pass" after a miss. The league is countering our aggressive offensive rebound hunting by getting into their offense a lot faster. At least that's what it sounded to me from the interview. Not sure if we can look at some numbers to try and validate this.

Last season opponents scored 11.7 PPG in transition against us which was 9th best in the league whereas opponents are scoring 15.4 PPG in transition against us which is 27th. That is a huge swing that aligns with what FVV/you are saying.

Thanks for looking it up. That's actually a huge swing that can explain a lot of drop off in our defense.

Fred talked about rule changes on the go ahead partly being responsible for this: "you can't touch anyone at this point of transition anymore" or something to that tune.

That interview was honestly a very good one but we never discussed it on this board because it just became about FVV.

[Jadoogar]

Jarret Allen to Toronto
OG Anunoby to Cleveland

Toronto gets the best defensive replacement with a contract that is signed for 4 years, while Cleveland gets its elite shooter/defender for the future. I don't think any draft comp. is needed because value-wise, I think it is even.

I would like this kind of trade but i can't see the Cavs doing this without seeing what this team looks like in the playoffs. Plus the East has some big teams that still require a competent center. I like Mobley but he's not going to be able to matchup against Embiid/Giannis or deter shots at the rim like Allen.

If the Cavs struggle in the playoffs due to spacing, i could see them splitting up Allen/Mobley but i think it's just too early for them to consider something like this.

[ciueli]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270187/Raptors-To-Inform-Teams-Of-Whether-They-Will-Be-Sellers-Close-To-Deadline

So, there are only 5 games left before the trade deadline and the front office still doesn't know which direction to pick?

[traps#10]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270187/Raptors-To-Inform-Teams-Of-Whether-They-Will-Be-Sellers-Close-To-Deadline

So, there are only 5 games left before the trade deadline and the front office still doesn't know which direction to pick?

I’ve always thought Masai always holds a very long leash with his core of guys and gives them the benefit of the doubt before big changes have to be made. Let’s see if Masai continues to “evaluate” pass the deadline. My hunch is that FVV, Trent, OG, and Siakam are still on the team pass the deadline.

[niQ]

Read on Twitter

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[Zeno]

I know why media does it, but the phrasing of "player X wants out of city Y" is trash.

[goinrogue]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270187/Raptors-To-Inform-Teams-Of-Whether-They-Will-Be-Sellers-Close-To-Deadline

So, there are only 5 games left before the trade deadline and the front office still doesn't know which direction to pick?

I seriously doubt they don’t know what direction they are heading in. They probably are just not happy with the offers they’re getting. Trying to frighten teams into unprotecting pics and add multiple pics.

[Psubs]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270187/Raptors-To-Inform-Teams-Of-Whether-They-Will-Be-Sellers-Close-To-Deadline

So, there are only 5 games left before the trade deadline and the front office still doesn't know which direction to pick?

I seriously doubt they don’t know what direction they are heading in. They probably are just not happy with the offers they’re getting. Trying to frighten teams into unprotecting pics and add multiple pics.

Get them to panic. Raptors hold the most valuable trade pieces and are holding the NBA contenders hostage. Like having an offer date for properties in a hot market.

[Dalek]

Gary's play and attitude have won me over, but if Toronto needs to pivot due to cost and wants a good return, I don't hate this deal that B/R proposed:

Cleveland Cavaliers Receive: Khem Birch, Gary Trent Jr.
Toronto Raptors Receive: Caris LeVert, Isaac Okoro, Denver's 2027 second-round pick

LeVert is a pretty good scorer who at least closes out the year on his big expiring deal. Okoro is the prize and I like the fit for Toronto. He has high probability to fit into the system just on defense alone, his shooting seems to be on uptick lately.

Kind of like the buy low opportunity when we traded Powell for Trent. Okoro is only 22 and can grow with Toronto. Levert adds some nice bench shooting at least for this year so we can still compete. Added benefit is also tacking in the Birch deal to get out from it.

[SurgeIblocka]

Read on Twitter

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Seeing this doesn’t give me much confidence. His answer's don’t sound like someone who really wants to stay, and is mad about the misinformation out there.

[Son Goku 25]

I don't buy this thing about Masai and Bobby not knowing which direction they'll go. That would be a big time failure on their part. They have likely listened to most of the offers and are waiting on desperate teams who will give in closer to TD. Any good org would have a contingency plan which I know they have.

I'd keep Barnes and try to keep OG, Precious, and Siakam unless we are getting a haul from another team we can't refuse.

[ash_k]

Read on Twitter

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Seeing this doesn’t give me much confidence. His answer's don’t sound like someone who really wants to stay, and is mad about the misinformation out there.

It sounds exactly like OG would respond...just like he responded the same question earlier at the beginning of the season. With the same detached-to-any-drama attitude. OG should be a Raptor for life with Pascal.

[alpngso]

Read on Twitter

?t=xQGJ4rTu4JNQQG8L-jt40A&s=19

Seeing this doesn’t give me much confidence. His answer's don’t sound like someone who really wants to stay, and is mad about the misinformation out there.

Dodge that happiness with the role question lol.
‘Just trying to get better’