Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[pingpongrac]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

[Jerry Lucas]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Question for you: if Scottie averages 17/8/5 with roughly 13-14 FGA and 5-6 FTA per 36 mins this season, a TS% between 56.5-57%, an AST% of 20%, and a TOV% of 15%, what would your assessment be of this hypothetical Year 3 for Scottie?

[DemHeavyHands]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Question for you: if Scottie averages 17/8/5 with roughly 13-14 FGA per 36 mins this season, a TS% between 56.5-57%, an AST% of 20%, and a TOV% of 15%, what would your assessment be of this hypothetical Year 3 for Scottie?

It’s a good year but not a #1 guy year. That’s what we’re hoping for here right?? In todays nba at least 20 ppg should be a breeze

[tsherkin]

Question for you: if Scottie averages 17/8/5 with roughly 13-14 FGA per 36 mins this season, a TS% between 56.5-57%, an AST% of 20%, and a TOV% of 15%, what would your assessment be of this hypothetical Year 3 for Scottie?

That would be really disappointing, given that folks are looking for improvement.

It would reflect him growing far worse at ball protection and continuing to score at below-average efficiency without any other obvious improvement. He was a roughly 16/7/5 guy PER36 last season, and about 16/8/3.5 PER36 as a rookie.

Mikistan might have been doing the annoying alt-case thing when he was talking about Year 3, but he isn't wrong: at this age in seasons past, Scottie might have still be in college, finding the polish he needed... and then might STILL take a couple years to sort it out. We aren't competing for real any time soon, so the hope is mainly that he shows any kind of improvement at all in the areas where he needs to and we can hang on that as a sign of potential improvement. Maybe. People get excited over his potential, but that passing potential won't mean too much if he's a 6'8 Rondo with a nice hook shot.

It will be interesting to watch how the Raptors play this year. All around, but especially how they deploy Scottie.

[Mikistan]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Do you not remember hwta being 22 years old was like? Did you not get better and understand things better3 years later, 5 years later or 10 years later? You guys sound like our media and Doug Smith last year.

Stop throwing out hypotheticals and talkong about failure and what caps his potential have.

We have a legitimate budding star on our team and all you guys do is whine about how he will disappoint its exhausting

[Madvillainy2004]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

I think Ja Morant and Jayson Tatum year 3 leaps are good comparison for what people want from Scottie. Both Ja and Tatum had really strong rookie seasons and took a step back in year 2 with their efficiency and overall level of play. But year 3 was their big break outs where they established themselves as bona-fide multi time Allstars and all-nba guys.

[tsherkin]

Do you not remember hwta being 22 years old was like? Did you not get better and understand things better3 years later, 5 years later or 10 years later? You guys sound like our media and Doug Smith last year.

Stop throwing out hypotheticals and talkong about failure and what caps his potential have.

We have a legitimate budding star on our team and all you guys do is whine about how he will disappoint its exhausting

So, while it's not going to indict him forever, there IS a general arc to NBA carers. And more often than not, the early years are a period of rapid improvement... or we don't see that improvement. Skill and physical tools should overcome context to at LEAST some extent, and the longer they do not, the more likely we are watching a lowering of a given player's upper bound. That doesn't mean he can't become better, or even that he can't necessarily become an AS. But it does start dropping expectations on what that player will look like in his prime because talent outs. It's not like Scottie isn't getting touches or chances. Sure, he's not being maximally supported, but like, high-end guys hit the league on garbage teams all the time and look better than this, so a little concern is warranted.

Understanding goes only so far in the absence of actual skill development. Now, we've seen two years from Scottie, so that doesn't put a pin in anything, we still need to see what he looks like this year and next. But the passage you quoted was talking about Scottie not showing improvement from his rookie season in his third season as a hypothetical; if that DOES happen, that will be very much an "odds are, this guy isn't going to be a perennial All-NBA 1st Team type player" prognosis, and that should not come as any huge surprise.

[Mikistan]

Do you not remember hwta being 22 years old was like? Did you not get better and understand things better3 years later, 5 years later or 10 years later? You guys sound like our media and Doug Smith last year.

Stop throwing out hypotheticals and talkong about failure and what caps his potential have.

We have a legitimate budding star on our team and all you guys do is whine about how he will disappoint its exhausting

So, while it's not going to indict him forever, there IS a general arc to NBA carers. And more often than not, the early years are a period of rapid improvement... or we don't see that improvement. Skill and physical tools should overcome context to at LEAST some extent, and the longer they do not, the more likely we are watching a lowering of a given player's upper bound. That doesn't mean he can't become better, or even that he can't necessarily become an AS. But it does start dropping expectations on what that player will look like in his prime because talent outs. It's not like Scottie isn't getting touches or chances. Sure, he's not being maximally supported, but like, high-end guys hit the league on garbage teams all the time and look better than this, so a little concern is warranted.

Understanding goes only so far in the absence of actual skill development. Now, we've seen two years from Scottie, so that doesn't put a pin in anything, we still need to see what he looks like this year and next. But the passage you quoted was talking about Scottie not showing improvement from his rookie season in his third season as a hypothetical; if that DOES happen, that will be very much an "odds are, this guy isn't going to be a perennial All-NBA 1st Team type player" prognosis, and that should not come as any huge surprise.

All of this is underpinned by your guys' assumptions that he did not show improvement in his second year and he was a disappointment his second year. I don't agree with that supposition. Just because the media told us he disappointed, you all agree with the anchor bias and the appeal to authority biases. One random report from a guy who doesn't even know Scottie last year about him not working hard in the offseason and you all parrot that his offseason habits and training are bad and rag on his trainer being retained this offseason. Spew some more bull for 100 more forum pages to rile yourself up with false expectations and you will all be disappointed no matter the ourcome.

[Madvillainy2004]

Do you not remember hwta being 22 years old was like? Did you not get better and understand things better3 years later, 5 years later or 10 years later? You guys sound like our media and Doug Smith last year.

Stop throwing out hypotheticals and talkong about failure and what caps his potential have.

We have a legitimate budding star on our team and all you guys do is whine about how he will disappoint its exhausting

So, while it's not going to indict him forever, there IS a general arc to NBA carers. And more often than not, the early years are a period of rapid improvement... or we don't see that improvement. Skill and physical tools should overcome context to at LEAST some extent, and the longer they do not, the more likely we are watching a lowering of a given player's upper bound. That doesn't mean he can't become better, or even that he can't necessarily become an AS. But it does start dropping expectations on what that player will look like in his prime because talent outs. It's not like Scottie isn't getting touches or chances. Sure, he's not being maximally supported, but like, high-end guys hit the league on garbage teams all the time and look better than this, so a little concern is warranted.

Understanding goes only so far in the absence of actual skill development. Now, we've seen two years from Scottie, so that doesn't put a pin in anything, we still need to see what he looks like this year and next. But the passage you quoted was talking about Scottie not showing improvement from his rookie season in his third season as a hypothetical; if that DOES happen, that will be very much an "odds are, this guy isn't going to be a perennial All-NBA 1st Team type player" prognosis, and that should not come as any huge surprise.

All of this is underpinned by your guys' assumptions that he did not show improvement in his second year and he was a disappointment his second year. I don't agree with that supposition. Just because the media told us he disappointed, you all agree with the anchor bias and the appeal to authority biases. One random report from a guy who doesn't even know Scottie last year about him not working hard in the offseason and you all parrot that his offseason habits and training are bad and rag on his trainer being retained this offseason. Spew some more bull for 100 more forum pages to rile yourself up with false expectations and you will all be disappointed no matter the ourcome.

I don't think the media really had that much to do with it. Just look at the regression in his numbers from year 1 to year 2. The rest is just kinda fluff and believe what you want. But he definitely did not improve from his rookie season (besides his passing) from a numbers perspective.

[tsherkin]

All of this is underpinned by your guys' assumptions that he did not show improvement in his second year and he was a disappointment his second year. I don't agree with that supposition.

I mean, he was demonstrably worse. We didn't see any improvement at all, only backslide, in his scoring game. We saw him passing more because that was how he was deployed, but that's about it.

Just because the media told us he disappointed,

Now who is assuming things? IDGAF what the media thinks, I'm making my opinion on the basis of my own observations, thank you very much And I don't particularly care about the comments about his work ethic, either, so don't lump me in with that crowd either.

As far as expectations. I would be happy if Scottie showed a semi-competent jumper for the year. I would be happy with league-average scoring efficiency on the same volume he's managing right now (about 16, 17 PTS36). I want to see him growing. We all know he isn't going to be a 30 ppg monster, chasing scoring titles and the like. He isn't good enough for that and never will be. That kind of player, you almost invariably see in HS. They have the first step, they show the jumper reasonably early, etc.

But that's okay. It won't be disappointing for Scottie not to be that guy. If we can get mid/highs teens scoring out of him on better than average efficiency, I will be very happy with that. A bit of a jumper coupled to his post game and passing, with some development in his approach and skill as a ball handler, and he could be a very useful 2nd or 3rd player on the team. That'd be really nice. Shy of shocking and unexpected levels of improvement from him over the next two seasons, that's about all I really want to see out of him, all I really expect/hope for. That would be a really nice player.

But let's not pretend history doesn't exist and that trends aren't a thing. Players usually show it pretty quickly if they're going to be weighty, star-level guys. There are exceptions, to be sure, and so one should exercise caution before giving up on a player, but getting MAD about people being critical of a guy who is slow to develop isn't really sensible.

[Reeko]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

[Mikistan]

All of this is underpinned by your guys' assumptions that he did not show improvement in his second year and he was a disappointment his second year. I don't agree with that supposition.

I mean, he was demonstrably worse. We didn't see any improvement at all, only backslide, in his scoring game. We saw him passing more because that was how he was deployed, but that's about it.

Just because the media told us he disappointed,

Now who is assuming things? IDGAF what the media thinks, I'm making my opinion on the basis of my own observations, thank you very much And I don't particularly care about the comments about his work ethic, either, so don't lump me in with that crowd either.

As far as expectations. I would be happy if Scottie showed a semi-competent jumper for the year. I would be happy with league-average scoring efficiency on the same volume he's managing right now (about 16, 17 PTS36). I want to see him growing. We all know he isn't going to be a 30 ppg monster, chasing scoring titles and the like. He isn't good enough for that and never will be. That kind of player, you almost invariably see in HS. They have the first step, they show the jumper reasonably early, etc.

But that's okay. It won't be disappointing for Scottie not to be that guy. If we can get mid/highs teens scoring out of him on better than average efficiency, I will be very happy with that. A bit of a jumper coupled to his post game and passing, with some development in his approach and skill as a ball handler, and he could be a very useful 2nd or 3rd player on the team. That'd be really nice. Shy of shocking and unexpected levels of improvement from him over the next two seasons, that's about all I really want to see out of him, all I really expect/hope for. That would be a really nice player.

But let's not pretend history doesn't exist and that trends aren't a thing. Players usually show it pretty quickly if they're going to be weighty, star-level guys. There are exceptions, to be sure, and so one should exercise caution before giving up on a player, but getting MAD about people being critical of a guy who is slow to develop isn't really sensible.

Demonstrably worse my ass

[pingpongrac]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Do you not remember hwta being 22 years old was like? Did you not get better and understand things better3 years later, 5 years later or 10 years later? You guys sound like our media and Doug Smith last year.

Stop throwing out hypotheticals and talkong about failure and what caps his potential have.

We have a legitimate budding star on our team and all you guys do is whine about how he will disappoint its exhausting

I have no clue what point you're trying to make comparing a regular working human with an NBA player. One has all of their life to learn and grow while the other typically has ~10 years before they reach their physical peak and start to see a decline in their performance then more often than not find themselves out of the league by their mid 30s. But if you want to use that analogy, sure. I imagine many people on this board have been fired or demoted from a job because they weren't good enough, especially in their late teens/early 20s.

I'm not saying Scottie should be fired (or demoted) or that he isn't good enough to be promoted in this sense; however, if we don't see a lot of improvement after 3 years – with his 3rd year being one where he is most set up to succeed – it is more likely than not that he won't ever blossom into a top player in the league like we are hoping. There is nothing hypothetical about saying that as three years in the NBA is a long time (we're talking about 20-25% of one's career and usually only the best players stick around for ~15 years) and we have numerous occurrences in the past where that 3rd season ends up being the breakout year for budding stars.

What's actually exhausting is how you whine about people whining non-stop. Most people are actually hoping for Scottie to take this opportunity and run with it en route a breakout season. Just because people have expectations for a bigger year doesn't mean they're hoping for Scottie to fail. It's like you don't even read half of the posts that you reply to.

[Mikistan]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

Ping-pong brings up a Mobley comparison based on total minutes and usage but doesn't mention that Mobley had 74 percent of his made buckets last year assisted. Guy gets his points handed to him and plays a completely different offensive style to Scottie but its a comparison that's worth mentioning because some of the other numbers look the same...

[Reeko]

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

Ping-pong brings up a Mobley comparison based on total minutes and usage but doesn't mention that Mobley had 74 percent of his made buckets last year assisted. Guy gets his points handed to him and plays a completely different offensive style to Scottie but its a comparison that's worth mentioning because some of the other numbers look the same...

That's terrible, let's just ignore the fact that Mobley plays with a top 5 passing guard in Darius Garland.

[KP730]

All of this is underpinned by your guys' assumptions that he did not show improvement in his second year and he was a disappointment his second year. I don't agree with that supposition.

I mean, he was demonstrably worse. We didn't see any improvement at all, only backslide, in his scoring game. We saw him passing more because that was how he was deployed, but that's about it.

Just because the media told us he disappointed,

Now who is assuming things? IDGAF what the media thinks, I'm making my opinion on the basis of my own observations, thank you very much And I don't particularly care about the comments about his work ethic, either, so don't lump me in with that crowd either.

As far as expectations. I would be happy if Scottie showed a semi-competent jumper for the year. I would be happy with league-average scoring efficiency on the same volume he's managing right now (about 16, 17 PTS36). I want to see him growing. We all know he isn't going to be a 30 ppg monster, chasing scoring titles and the like. He isn't good enough for that and never will be. That kind of player, you almost invariably see in HS. They have the first step, they show the jumper reasonably early, etc.

But that's okay. It won't be disappointing for Scottie not to be that guy. If we can get mid/highs teens scoring out of him on better than average efficiency, I will be very happy with that. A bit of a jumper coupled to his post game and passing, with some development in his approach and skill as a ball handler, and he could be a very useful 2nd or 3rd player on the team. That'd be really nice. Shy of shocking and unexpected levels of improvement from him over the next two seasons, that's about all I really want to see out of him, all I really expect/hope for. That would be a really nice player.

But let's not pretend history doesn't exist and that trends aren't a thing. Players usually show it pretty quickly if they're going to be weighty, star-level guys. There are exceptions, to be sure, and so one should exercise caution before giving up on a player, but getting MAD about people being critical of a guy who is slow to develop isn't really sensible.

Demonstrably worse my ass

let’s just ignore defence entirely

[pingpongrac]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

Half of those guys you listed have a significantly smaller workload overall. Thomas (17 MPG and generally used as a gunner off the bench), Mann (20 MPG and generally the back-up PG on the floor without SGA/Giddey), Christopher (15 MPG) and Duarte (24 MPG) have all quite literally played less than HALF of the minutes that Scottie has played thus far while Cade missed almost all of last season too. With the exception of Suggs – who got most of his opportunity with the 22-win Magic in his rookie season – and Mobley with the ~50-win Cavs, the remaining players have shown as much on the offensive end as Scottie (or even more) while also playing for generally much worse teams. But in the end, Scottie is getting the ball more than just about everyone from the '21 draft class.

[KP730]

YeAr 3 iS cRiTiCaL
We KnOw A 22 yEaR oLd'S pOtEnTiAl bAsEd On YeAr 3

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

it’s overlooked how different Scottie’s situation/role is compared to your typical lotto pick. gotta take things in context here

many lotto picks land on trash teams and get free reign to do whatever

not the case with Scottie. drafted from Tampa year. Rookie year was on a playoff team with multiple players ahead of him on the pecking order. had to be 3rd/4th option

all that has changed this year - it’s now Scottie’s team. takes that compare him to other guys in his draft class with higher USG% on trash teams? we’ll see how those takes hold up this year

[Reeko]

This is a huge year for Scottie. There has been a massive organizational shift towards making him priority #1 (entirely new coaching staff with a focus on development, 0.5 second offence with a focus on ball/player movement plus an emphasis on giving Scottie the ball more, no more FVV to "hold him back", Siakam has obviously been dangled in trades while Scottie has been deemed untouchable, etc.) after he has already been given a fair bit of opportunities in his career thus far; he's #1 in minutes played of his draft class while his 20 USG% over the first 2 seasons is just behind Mobley. If he has another season where his impact and numbers stay mostly the same despite having an environment/system almost entirely catered to him, there is cause for concern – rather, the likelihood that he doesn't have sky-high potential like we thought would become more obvious.

Cade Cunningham 27.9 USG%
Jalen Green 26.1 USG%
Cam Thomas 24.7 USG%
Josh Giddey 23.6 USG%
Jalen Suggs 22.9 USG%
Franz Wagner 22.4 USG%
Alperen Sengun 21.6 USG%
Tre Mann 21.4 USG%
Josh Christopher 21.4 USG%
Evan Mobley 20.3 USG%
Chris Duarte 20.3 USG%
Scottie Barnes 19.7 USG%

This is a list of guys in Scottie's draft class who are playing consistent minutes. As you can see his USG% is dead last amongst this group. I would argue that for a guy who was picked 4th and who won the Rookie Of The Year award, his USG% suggests that he hasn't been given ample opportunity compared to his peers.

Half of those guys you listed have a significantly smaller workload overall. Thomas (17 MPG and generally used as a gunner off the bench), Mann (20 MPG and generally the back-up PG on the floor without SGA/Giddey), Christopher (15 MPG) and Duarte (24 MPG) have all quite literally played less than HALF of the minutes that Scottie has played thus far while Cade missed almost all of last season too. With the exception of Suggs – who got most of his opportunity with the 22-win Magic in his rookie season – and Mobley with the ~50-win Cavs, the remaining players have shown as much on the offensive end as Scottie (or even more) while also playing for generally much worse teams. But in the end, Scottie is getting the ball more than just about everyone from the '21 draft class.

Regardless, in those minutes they have been on the floor they have been given more freedom offensively than Scottie.

[MiamiSPX]

Scottie has never once offered a single excuse for his play last year. I'm sure everyone knows that but want to point that out just in case. The lines are getting blurred here.

The President of the team, who many of you believe to be the best executive in the league, has deemed Barnes untouchable, and is also making him the focal point of the team. To borrow the same retort that a lot of people here use: I'll trust his judgment more than anyone here.

Some of you would trade him for Harden tomorrow if you could.....