Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V1.0

[HumbleRen]

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All of these teams have surpassed us aside from the Pistons.

Team compete: "But . . . look at the Detroit!"

Minnesota sold their future for Gobert.
Cleveland sold their future for Mitchell
Houston had to sign Fred to start winning games
Orlando is in their full second cycle of tanking and only now are winning games and still haven’t won anything of substance.

Yeah really good examples…

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

[Duffman100]

Team compete: "But . . . look at the Detroit!"

Minnesota sold their future for Gobert.
Cleveland sold their future for Mitchell
Houston had to sign Fred to start winning games
Orlando is in their full second cycle of tanking and only now are winning games and still haven’t won anything of substance.

Yeah really good examples…

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

A single first vs the Gobert and Mitchell packages is a ridiculous comparison.

Especially when Mitchell bolts from the Cavs and they’re left paying that debt for years.

[Madvillainy2004]

Can the Warriors hurry up and trade for Pascal? Lol I'd take Moody + Kuminga + filler and picks

[HumbleRen]

Minnesota sold their future for Gobert.
Cleveland sold their future for Mitchell
Houston had to sign Fred to start winning games
Orlando is in their full second cycle of tanking and only now are winning games and still haven’t won anything of substance.

Yeah really good examples…

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

A single first vs the Gobert and Mitchell packages is a ridiculous comparison.

Especially when Mitchell bolts from the Cavs and they’re left paying that debt for years.

Wasn’t just a single first. I told you it set us back years and you scoffed at it.

Fast forward a couple months, we might have to sell Siakam for pennies on the dollar, devalued our 2023 first round pick, lost a future first round pick and potentially lose OG for nothing. It’s all collateral damage because of that one move.

All that for a play in push that we failed to even win and hasn’t changed our floor or ceiling at all lol.

Master class of a direction to go in.

[Duffman100]

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

A single first vs the Gobert and Mitchell packages is a ridiculous comparison.

Especially when Mitchell bolts from the Cavs and they’re left paying that debt for years.

Wasn’t just a single first. I told you it set us back years and you scoffed at it.

Fast forward a couple months, we might have to sell Siakam for pennies on the dollar, devalued our 2023 first round pick, lost a future first round pick and potentially lose OG for nothing. It’s all collateral damage because of that one move.

All that for a play in push that we failed to even win and hasn’t changed our floor or ceiling at all lol.

Master class of a direction to go in.

So it was a couple of seconds on top of it? Siakam and OG's FA status have nothing to do with the deal.

It's still ridiculous to compare the Poeltl deal as 'selling our future' in comparison to Mitchell and Gobert deals.

[HumbleRen]

A single first vs the Gobert and Mitchell packages is a ridiculous comparison.

Especially when Mitchell bolts from the Cavs and they’re left paying that debt for years.

Wasn’t just a single first. I told you it set us back years and you scoffed at it.

Fast forward a couple months, we might have to sell Siakam for pennies on the dollar, devalued our 2023 first round pick, lost a future first round pick and potentially lose OG for nothing. It’s all collateral damage because of that one move.

All that for a play in push that we failed to even win and hasn’t changed our floor or ceiling at all lol.

Master class of a direction to go in.

So it was a couple of seconds on top of it? Siakam and OG's FA status have nothing to do with the deal.

It's still ridiculous to compare the Poeltl deal as 'selling our future' in comparison to Mitchell and Gobert deals.

Trades are all about timing.

That trade has 100% impacted OG and Siakam’s return package in a negative way. To say otherwise would be rooted in bad faith.

[Duffman100]

Wasn’t just a single first. I told you it set us back years and you scoffed at it.

Fast forward a couple months, we might have to sell Siakam for pennies on the dollar, devalued our 2023 first round pick, lost a future first round pick and potentially lose OG for nothing. It’s all collateral damage because of that one move.

All that for a play in push that we failed to even win and hasn’t changed our floor or ceiling at all lol.

Master class of a direction to go in.

So it was a couple of seconds on top of it? Siakam and OG's FA status have nothing to do with the deal.

It's still ridiculous to compare the Poeltl deal as 'selling our future' in comparison to Mitchell and Gobert deals.

Trades are all about timing.

That trade has 100% impacted OG and Siakam’s return package in a negative way. To say otherwise would be rooted in bad faith.

Even if it has, it's still no way close to Markennen and 3 1sts or 5 1st round draft picks and Vanderbilt.

Debating the Poeltl trade is in any way equal to that level of 'selling the future' is also rooted in bad faith.

[HumbleRen]

So it was a couple of seconds on top of it? Siakam and OG's FA status have nothing to do with the deal.

It's still ridiculous to compare the Poeltl deal as 'selling our future' in comparison to Mitchell and Gobert deals.

Trades are all about timing.

That trade has 100% impacted OG and Siakam’s return package in a negative way. To say otherwise would be rooted in bad faith.

Even if it has, it's still no way close to Markennen and 3 1sts or 5 1st round draft picks and Vanderbilt.

Debating the Poeltl trade is in any way equal to that level of 'selling the future' is also rooted in bad faith.

Again, timing and context.

Cavs still have 2 all star caliber players in their early 20’s to work off with even if Mitchell leaves.

Minny still has 3 all nba caliber players and their bonafide franchise piece locked in for the next several years and are currently a #1 seed.

We have Scottie and 2 expiring contracts. That’s it. That’s DUE to us choosing a win now direction and trading for Poeltl at the absolute wrong time. So yes, that move was objectively selling the future for a short term W which horribly failed by the way.

[Duffman100]

Trades are all about timing.

That trade has 100% impacted OG and Siakam’s return package in a negative way. To say otherwise would be rooted in bad faith.

Even if it has, it's still no way close to Markennen and 3 1sts or 5 1st round draft picks and Vanderbilt.

Debating the Poeltl trade is in any way equal to that level of 'selling the future' is also rooted in bad faith.

Again, timing and context.

Cavs still have 2 all star caliber players in their early 20’s to work off with even if Mitchell leaves.

Minny still has 3 all nba caliber players and their bonafide franchise piece locked in for the next several years and are currently a #1 seed.

We have Scottie and 2 expiring contracts. That’s it. That’s DUE to us choosing a win now direction and trading for Poeltl at the absolute wrong time. So yes, that move was objectively selling the future for a short term W which horribly failed by the way.

Which still isn't even in the same universe in terms of the severity of the 'future being sold'.

How are you even arguing the Poeltl trade is equivalent to the Mitchell/Gobert trades? Even for you that's ludicrous.

[HumbleRen]

Even if it has, it's still no way close to Markennen and 3 1sts or 5 1st round draft picks and Vanderbilt.

Debating the Poeltl trade is in any way equal to that level of 'selling the future' is also rooted in bad faith.

Again, timing and context.

Cavs still have 2 all star caliber players in their early 20’s to work off with even if Mitchell leaves.

Minny still has 3 all nba caliber players and their bonafide franchise piece locked in for the next several years and are currently a #1 seed.

We have Scottie and 2 expiring contracts. That’s it. That’s DUE to us choosing a win now direction and trading for Poeltl at the absolute wrong time. So yes, that move was objectively selling the future for a short term W which horribly failed by the way.

Which still isn't even in the same universe in terms of the severity of the 'future being sold'.

How are you even arguing the Poeltl trade is equivalent to the Mitchell/Gobert trades? Even for you that's ludicrous.

You’re the one saying that. Im simply saying the trade we made has the POTENTIAL to be just as devastating because of the snowball effect that it caused.

If we lose Siakam or OG for nothing, that is 100% just as devastating, if not worse because Minny still has their core 4 guys locked up for the next several years and Cavs having their 2 foundation pieces to build off of.

[Duffman100]

Again, timing and context.

Cavs still have 2 all star caliber players in their early 20’s to work off with even if Mitchell leaves.

Minny still has 3 all nba caliber players and their bonafide franchise piece locked in for the next several years and are currently a #1 seed.

We have Scottie and 2 expiring contracts. That’s it. That’s DUE to us choosing a win now direction and trading for Poeltl at the absolute wrong time. So yes, that move was objectively selling the future for a short term W which horribly failed by the way.

Which still isn't even in the same universe in terms of the severity of the 'future being sold'.

How are you even arguing the Poeltl trade is equivalent to the Mitchell/Gobert trades? Even for you that's ludicrous.

You’re the one saying that. Im simply saying the trade we made has the POTENTIAL to be just as devastating because of the snowball effect that it caused.

If we lose Siakam or OG for nothing, that is 100% just as devastating, if not worse because Minny still has their core 4 guys locked up for the next several years and Cavs having their 2 foundation pieces to build off of.

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

We sold our future or we potentially sold our future?

[HumbleRen]

Which still isn't even in the same universe in terms of the severity of the 'future being sold'.

How are you even arguing the Poeltl trade is equivalent to the Mitchell/Gobert trades? Even for you that's ludicrous.

You’re the one saying that. Im simply saying the trade we made has the POTENTIAL to be just as devastating because of the snowball effect that it caused.

If we lose Siakam or OG for nothing, that is 100% just as devastating, if not worse because Minny still has their core 4 guys locked up for the next several years and Cavs having their 2 foundation pieces to build off of.

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

We sold our future or we potentially sold our future?

You’re putting words in my mouth again.

“Potentially as devastating” does not = potentially sold out future. We already sold our future for a short term goal with that Poeltl trade. Let’s get that out of the away.

My point about “potentially as devastating” is in comparison to those Cavs and Minny trade. Right now ? No, it’s not as bad as those trades. IF we lose Siakam or OG, then it is in my opinion just as terrible as those trades are in terms of impact if not worse for reasons I stated in my previous post.

That situation above, which is a realistic situation mind you isn’t selling out our future, that is the Defcon 1 for this franchise for the next several years.

[Duffman100]

You’re the one saying that. Im simply saying the trade we made has the POTENTIAL to be just as devastating because of the snowball effect that it caused.

If we lose Siakam or OG for nothing, that is 100% just as devastating, if not worse because Minny still has their core 4 guys locked up for the next several years and Cavs having their 2 foundation pieces to build off of.

We sold our future for a play in run. We sure are a great example of building from the middle !

We sold our future or we potentially sold our future?

You’re putting words in my mouth again.

“Potentially as devastating” does not = potentially sold out future. We already sold our future for a short term goal with that Poeltl trade. Let’s get that out of the away.

My point about “potentially as devastating” is in comparison to those Cavs and Minny trade. Right now ? No, it’s not as bad as those trades. IF we lose Siakam or OG, then it is in my opinion just as terrible as those trades are in terms of impact if not worse for reasons I stated in my previous post.

That situation above, which is a realistic situation mind you isn’t selling out our future, that is the Defcon 1 for this franchise for the next several years.

Okay so when I stated Cavs and Wolves 'sold their future' for Mitchell and Gobert. And you said "we sold our future for Poeltl".

It was obvious that the equivalency of the two comments was in the future 'potential'?

[HumbleRen]

We sold our future or we potentially sold our future?

You’re putting words in my mouth again.

“Potentially as devastating” does not = potentially sold out future. We already sold our future for a short term goal with that Poeltl trade. Let’s get that out of the away.

My point about “potentially as devastating” is in comparison to those Cavs and Minny trade. Right now ? No, it’s not as bad as those trades. IF we lose Siakam or OG, then it is in my opinion just as terrible as those trades are in terms of impact if not worse for reasons I stated in my previous post.

That situation above, which is a realistic situation mind you isn’t selling out our future, that is the Defcon 1 for this franchise for the next several years.

Okay so when I stated Cavs and Wolves 'sold their future' for Mitchell and Gobert. And you said "we sold our future for Poeltl".

It was obvious that the equivalency of the two comments was in the future 'potential'?

I mean we ruined our future assets for a trade that did not move the needle at all and has more downsides to it than upside. That’s objectively considered “selling the future”.

My whole point is how severe the impact is from that trade deadline on our future. We won’t fully know until the off season.

As of right now, it’s a bad trade but not the end of the world but it can easily end up being the defining trade that set us back for the next several years. That’s what I mean by being “potentially as devastating” as those Cavs/Minny trades.

[Los_29]

The Poeltl trade really did set this team back. We might’ve lost just one FRP but it’s going to be a lottery pick and it also limited our trade options. I’d feel okay if we had a pick this year. The fact we don’t and have to watch this team play is depressing.

With that said, those young teams haven’t accomplished anything and some of those teams severely compromised their future to get into that position. The harsh reality is many if not all of those teams may not ever get to the point that our Demar/Lowry teams got to.

[TorontoBarneys]

You’re putting words in my mouth again.

“Potentially as devastating” does not = potentially sold out future. We already sold our future for a short term goal with that Poeltl trade. Let’s get that out of the away.

My point about “potentially as devastating” is in comparison to those Cavs and Minny trade. Right now ? No, it’s not as bad as those trades. IF we lose Siakam or OG, then it is in my opinion just as terrible as those trades are in terms of impact if not worse for reasons I stated in my previous post.

That situation above, which is a realistic situation mind you isn’t selling out our future, that is the Defcon 1 for this franchise for the next several years.

Okay so when I stated Cavs and Wolves 'sold their future' for Mitchell and Gobert. And you said "we sold our future for Poeltl".

It was obvious that the equivalency of the two comments was in the future 'potential'?

I mean we ruined our future assets for a trade that did not move the needle at all and has more downsides to it than upside. That’s objectively considered “selling the future”.

My whole point is how severe the impact is from that trade deadline on our future. We won’t fully know until the off season.

As of right now, it’s a bad trade but not the end of the world but it can easily end up being the defining trade that set us back for the next several years. That’s what I mean by being “potentially as devastating” as those Cavs/Minny trades.

Let's not forget the brilliant Thad trade. I still see the argument that we only "traded down 13 spots" but neither Thad or Koloko are currently playing for the Raptors. That trade was just 2 years ago.

[Madvillainy2004]

Okay so when I stated Cavs and Wolves 'sold their future' for Mitchell and Gobert. And you said "we sold our future for Poeltl".

It was obvious that the equivalency of the two comments was in the future 'potential'?

I mean we ruined our future assets for a trade that did not move the needle at all and has more downsides to it than upside. That’s objectively considered “selling the future”.

My whole point is how severe the impact is from that trade deadline on our future. We won’t fully know until the off season.

As of right now, it’s a bad trade but not the end of the world but it can easily end up being the defining trade that set us back for the next several years. That’s what I mean by being “potentially as devastating” as those Cavs/Minny trades.

Let's not forget the brilliant Thad trade. I still see the argument that we only "traded down 13 spots" but neither Thad or Koloko are currently playing for the Raptors. That trade was just 2 years ago.

I'm not gonna defend the Thad trade but its more than a bit disingenuous to say Koloko isnt playing for us (with the implication that hes not playing cause hes bad). He had a decent rookie season then had a totally unpredictable/potentially career threatening respiratory issues. I blame Masai for a lot but not for Koloko being unable to play.

[HumbleRen]

I mean we ruined our future assets for a trade that did not move the needle at all and has more downsides to it than upside. That’s objectively considered “selling the future”.

My whole point is how severe the impact is from that trade deadline on our future. We won’t fully know until the off season.

As of right now, it’s a bad trade but not the end of the world but it can easily end up being the defining trade that set us back for the next several years. That’s what I mean by being “potentially as devastating” as those Cavs/Minny trades.

Let's not forget the brilliant Thad trade. I still see the argument that we only "traded down 13 spots" but neither Thad or Koloko are currently playing for the Raptors. That trade was just 2 years ago.

I'm not gonna defend the Thad trade but its more than a bit disingenuous to say Koloko isnt playing for us (with the implication that hes not playing cause hes bad). He had a decent rookie season then had a totally unpredictable/potentially career threatening respiratory issues. I blame Masai for a lot but not for Koloko being unable to play.

Yeah, Koloko’s incident is a freak accident. It was a dumb trade but the Koloko stuff isn’t something you can control.

Everything else tho, pure mistakes after mistakes lol.

[TorontoBarneys]

I mean we ruined our future assets for a trade that did not move the needle at all and has more downsides to it than upside. That’s objectively considered “selling the future”.

My whole point is how severe the impact is from that trade deadline on our future. We won’t fully know until the off season.

As of right now, it’s a bad trade but not the end of the world but it can easily end up being the defining trade that set us back for the next several years. That’s what I mean by being “potentially as devastating” as those Cavs/Minny trades.

Let's not forget the brilliant Thad trade. I still see the argument that we only "traded down 13 spots" but neither Thad or Koloko are currently playing for the Raptors. That trade was just 2 years ago.

I'm not gonna defend the Thad trade but its more than a bit disingenuous to say Koloko isnt playing for us (with the implication that hes not playing cause hes bad). He had a decent rookie season then had a totally unpredictable/potentially career threatening respiratory issues. I blame Masai for a lot but not for Koloko being unable to play.

I'm not implying Koloko is a bad basketball player. I hope he eventually pans out and I don't think the respiratory illness or whatever he has is going to be ultimately career-threatening IMO. But as it currently stands, that trade is not doing us any dividends. Just facts.

[Madvillainy2004]

Let's not forget the brilliant Thad trade. I still see the argument that we only "traded down 13 spots" but neither Thad or Koloko are currently playing for the Raptors. That trade was just 2 years ago.

I'm not gonna defend the Thad trade but its more than a bit disingenuous to say Koloko isnt playing for us (with the implication that hes not playing cause hes bad). He had a decent rookie season then had a totally unpredictable/potentially career threatening respiratory issues. I blame Masai for a lot but not for Koloko being unable to play.

Yeah, Koloko’s incident is a freak accident. It was a dumb trade but the Koloko stuff isn’t something you can control.

Everything else tho, pure mistakes after mistakes lol.

Yeah like trading down was not a good choice, but if youre gonna do that get a decent player for christ sake lol. Like we couldnt go for Doug McDermott? career .400 3 point shooter and would probably still be in our rotation. Thad was just such an odd choice because he didnt address a need, was old, and was like 2 weeks away from being waived.