Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[tsherkin]

We are in agreement, in fact I find it one of his better qualities.

Yeah, he's a chill dude.

Yeah, the bombing 3 we really hope never to see again. I do expect to take some (and only) wide open 3 just to keep people honest. But yeah, I see him at his best attacking mismatches downlow and otherwise being a pest bucket getter. If he scored 15.3 as a rookie I'm expecting 18, 8, 8 with great defense and that is a a #2 worth that contract.

Yeah, I mean, Scottie blows chunks from 3. I don't think that's going to change a lot. He'll have to try sometimes when he's super wide open, I guess, but we'll just write off those possessions.

18/8 with like 4-7 apg depending on usage patterns makes sense to me. League-average efficiency or maybe a shade higher depending on the details of his shot diet. Quality D. That's a good player.

[Buff]

Yeah, I mean, Scottie blows chunks from 3. I don't think that's going to change a lot. He'll have to try sometimes when he's super wide open, I guess, but we'll just write off those possessions.

Call me a dreamer, I think he can do 33% on those 3 attempts, get 1PPP and not call that a write off.

[tsherkin]

Call me a dreamer, I think he can do 33% on those 3 attempts, get 1PPP and not call that a write off.

I am less optimistic than you. In his four seasons, he's shot better than 30.1% once, and has been under 30% twice. That doesn't illustrate a particularly strong upward trend or level of ability. Same same with his FT% and his below-average shooting from the corner. I don't have faith in his 3pt shooting. He has other ways to contribute, though, so I don't think it ultimately matters too much.

[Buff]

Call me a dreamer, I think he can do 33% on those 3 attempts, get 1PPP and not call that a write off.

I am less optimistic than you. In his four seasons, he's shot better than 30.1% once, and has been under 30% twice. That doesn't illustrate a particularly strong upward trend or level of ability. Same same with his FT% and his below-average shooting from the corner. I don't have faith in his 3pt shooting. He has other ways to contribute, though, so I don't think it ultimately matters too much.

Yeah, I like to be optimistic with this stuff, cuz I use for entertainment. It's been a rough what, 5 years where we have tanked 3 times? Point being, what I enjoy about the sport is the "trying to win" thing and you'd agree that Scottie not being Draymond would go long ways towards that.

[tsherkin]

[
Yeah, I like to be optimistic with this stuff, cuz I use for entertainment. It's been a rough what, 5 years where we have tanked 3 times? Point being, what I enjoy about the sport is the "trying to win" thing and you'd agree that Scottie not being Draymond would go long ways towards that.

Yeah, I'm not trying to force you to change your approach, haha. Scottie isn't a dick like Draymond, so there's that. I don't know that he's much better as a scorer, though he's certainly been game to try. We'll see what comes when Ingram gets on the court.

[Indeed]

because of scotties defensive impact and passing, he can avg a efficient 21-22 and still be the 2nd best or even best player on a championship team imo...but he needs a 25ish and a 23ish guy with him

So he isn't likely to average an efficient anything in the 20+ ppg range. His scoring tools are just too limited. We need to look for him to shoot a bunch less and be happy with him in the teens, I suspect.

And his defense isn't Anunoby impactful, more Siakam impactful. Still good, but unlikely to be 2nd best.
We can discuss if he is better than Anunoby and get paid more than him next year (Barnes makes 38m, Anunoby makes 37m), while imo, Anunoby is overpaid.

[Thaddy]

Barnes is the least efficient 20PPG scorer in the league. Paulo is up there with Scottie too but he hasn't played enough games. This is getting to the red alert alarming territory.

[Buff]

Barnes is the least efficient 20PPG scorer in the league. Paulo is up there with Scottie too but he hasn't played enough games. This is getting to the red alert alarming territory.

Yes, but only if you like to be alarmed.

[Vampirate]

Barnes is the least efficient 20PPG scorer in the league. Paulo is up there with Scottie too but he hasn't played enough games. This is getting to the red alert alarming territory.

I'm kind of giving Paolo a bit of a break here, he's coming of an injury so he might not be his 100% self, but it's startling to see him basically be Barnes in terms of efficiency.

[Thaddy]

Barnes is the least efficient 20PPG scorer in the league. Paulo is up there with Scottie too but he hasn't played enough games. This is getting to the red alert alarming territory.

Yes, but only if you like to be alarmed.

Um what?

[HangTime]

Barnes is the least efficient 20PPG scorer in the league. Paulo is up there with Scottie too but he hasn't played enough games. This is getting to the red alert alarming territory.

Paulo is a Natural scorer, who gets to focus most of his energy on it.

Scottie's working on his scoring, while providing high level of defencive energy.

I think people have to be patient, it'll take him longer to reach his peak, but to be fair, his peak is higher.

[tsherkin]

I think people have to be patient, it'll take him longer to reach his peak, but to be fair, his peak is higher.

Not as a focal guy it isn't.

When we start dropping some of the tougher shots and getting him focused on moving without the basketball, though, he'll end up looking better.

[HangTime]

I think people have to be patient, it'll take him longer to reach his peak, but to be fair, his peak is higher.

Not as a focal guy it isn't.

When we start dropping some of the tougher shots and getting him focused on moving without the basketball, though, he'll end up looking better.

I mean as the focal guy.
You can see how hard Darko is purposely making it on him thus far. Even if you think it "looks bad" , look at surrounding pieces.

Like earlier in the year, where he's drawing a double, and finding the open shooter (who are non-shooter). Make or miss, those play making reps are super beneficial.

When we start to add better pieces, or guys develop betters shots, then Scottie will be "unlocked".

The bolded part, we already know he do can that stuff. It's basically what Nick Nurse wanted him to stick to, and the media was pushing for it to,Instead of developing the best talent on the team.
Which was idiotic, because the few times we saw Scottie lead, it was fun, and clear that Pascal and Fred should be complementary pieces to him.

So, we'll see it that few times this year, just to show everyone "he still has it."


Other than that, he's working on the less comfortable parts. You'll have Darko to thank for that, but again, it'll take time.

[tsherkin]

I mean as the focal guy.

Oh. No, that isn't ever going to work out.

You can see how hard Darko is purposely making it on him thus far. Even if you think it "looks bad" , look at surrounding pieces.

No. Focal guys do well even in the absence of peripheral talent. They operate better with such, obviously, but they don't suck flaming ass on bad teams the way Scottie has this year. Scoring poorly on bad teams doesn't magically turn into scoring at a sufficiently high level just because the team gets better. We're going to have to feed him easier shots with better passing support and take away bad shots for him to start looking better.

That doesn't mean we can't feature Scottie as a playmaker, but he's definitely not shaping into a high-level scorer at all.

[Scase]

I mean as the focal guy.

Oh. No, that isn't ever going to work out.

You can see how hard Darko is purposely making it on him thus far. Even if you think it "looks bad" , look at surrounding pieces.

No. Focal guys do well even in the absence of peripheral talent. They operate better with such, obviously, but they don't suck flaming ass on bad teams the way Scottie has this year. Scoring poorly on bad teams doesn't magically turn into scoring at a sufficiently high level just because the team gets better. We're going to have to feed him easier shots with better passing support and take away bad shots for him to start looking better.

That doesn't mean we can't feature Scottie as a playmaker, but he's definitely not shaping into a high-level scorer at all.

I'm a Scottie truther, but there is no way he's gonna be the focal point of an offence, unless it's a hub, definitely not as a scorer. I don't know how people can have watched him the last 4 years and think that's happening.

[ArthurVandelay]

I mean as the focal guy.

Oh. No, that isn't ever going to work out.

You can see how hard Darko is purposely making it on him thus far. Even if you think it "looks bad" , look at surrounding pieces.

No. Focal guys do well even in the absence of peripheral talent. They operate better with such, obviously, but they don't suck flaming ass on bad teams the way Scottie has this year. Scoring poorly on bad teams doesn't magically turn into scoring at a sufficiently high level just because the team gets better. We're going to have to feed him easier shots with better passing support and take away bad shots for him to start looking better.

That doesn't mean we can't feature Scottie as a playmaker, but he's definitely not shaping into a high-level scorer at all.

I'm a Scottie truther, but there is no way he's gonna be the focal point of an offence, unless it's a hub, definitely not as a scorer. I don't know how people can have watched him the last 4 years and think that's happening.

Definitely a hub

He isn’t a “first option”/top scorer on a team

Anyone expecting that is delusional imo, whether you love or hate him

Doesn't mean Scottie still isn’t a great player or can’t contribute to winning

[Tripod]

Oh. No, that isn't ever going to work out.



No. Focal guys do well even in the absence of peripheral talent. They operate better with such, obviously, but they don't suck flaming ass on bad teams the way Scottie has this year. Scoring poorly on bad teams doesn't magically turn into scoring at a sufficiently high level just because the team gets better. We're going to have to feed him easier shots with better passing support and take away bad shots for him to start looking better.

That doesn't mean we can't feature Scottie as a playmaker, but he's definitely not shaping into a high-level scorer at all.

I'm a Scottie truther, but there is no way he's gonna be the focal point of an offence, unless it's a hub, definitely not as a scorer. I don't know how people can have watched him the last 4 years and think that's happening.

Definitely a hub

He isn’t a “first option”/top scorer on a team

Anyone expecting that is delusional imo, whether you love or hate him

Doesn't mean Scottie still isn’t a great player or can’t contribute to winning

And hub is ideal.

Gets him closer to the basket
Can still just shoot over his guy vs Yak who can't
Has a C to pass to closer to the basket
Has IQ, RJ, BI to pass out to if a double comes
Can set a screen for guys to penetrate
There to grab rebounds on missed outside shots
Let's him do what comes naturally to him, pass

I like that realistically 4 of our starters can put up 20+ on any given night, or week, or possibly month. We just need to hunt for mismatches each game and feed who has it and try to exploit it.

Someone's scoring numbers in the starters are likely to drop by adding in BI, so it sort of stands to reason that it will be pass 1st guys like Barnes and Yak who's could drop 1st. Luckily they do lots of other things great besides score so it's about adapting. Hopefully we get to see some games later this year with all 5.

[Scase]

Oh. No, that isn't ever going to work out.



No. Focal guys do well even in the absence of peripheral talent. They operate better with such, obviously, but they don't suck flaming ass on bad teams the way Scottie has this year. Scoring poorly on bad teams doesn't magically turn into scoring at a sufficiently high level just because the team gets better. We're going to have to feed him easier shots with better passing support and take away bad shots for him to start looking better.

That doesn't mean we can't feature Scottie as a playmaker, but he's definitely not shaping into a high-level scorer at all.

I'm a Scottie truther, but there is no way he's gonna be the focal point of an offence, unless it's a hub, definitely not as a scorer. I don't know how people can have watched him the last 4 years and think that's happening.

Definitely a hub

He isn’t a “first option”/top scorer on a team

Anyone expecting that is delusional imo, whether you love or hate him

Doesn't mean Scottie still isn’t a great player or can’t contribute to winning

That's the thing, so few people are willing to accept something that is in the grey area, Scottie isn't garbage, and he's very likely not going to be a superstar either, and that's fine. Being realistic about our players seems to be verboten anywhere online (especially here), I used to be super high on Scottie and thought he could take a step to stardom, but after 4 years, it's an extremely unrealistic expectation.

And that's fine, not everyone has that potential, and not everyone with that potential ever even sniffs it. He's still a very good player. I just wish opinions like that weren't seen as so controversial.

[tsherkin]

Definitely a hub

He isn’t a “first option”/top scorer on a team

Anyone expecting that is delusional imo, whether you love or hate him

Doesn't mean Scottie still isn’t a great player or can’t contribute to winning

I don't know that I'd call him "great" right now, but he's a valuable contributor. He also has upside in some of those other areas. Particularly as we fiddle with his scoring responsibility, we should see further increase in his ability as a defender, and we know already that he's a pretty solid playmaker with some upside there. That's good stuff.

[mdenny]

For those who are extremely disappointed in scotty's season...they probably bought into the hype that he didn't deserve. And so much of it was fueled by a toxic element of the fanbase that blamed other players for any perceived shortcomings in his game.

I'm not disappointed in his season at all. When you are responsible for a team's offensive performance....your efficiency numbers will worsen. That's why ppl who are so emphatically focused on efficiency tend to overrate players with limited roles.

Agbaji s currently blessed with that type of role. He has been FAR more efficient than Anthony Edwards for example.

In anycase....I can't think of a single facet of the game that scotty could be considered top 10 in the league...nevermind top 5.

He is exactly what I figured....jack of all trades, elite role player.

Interestingly enough...I wonder if Flagg is destined to the same kind of ceiling that scotty is. What facet of the game do we think Flagg will be amongst top 5 in nba? I don't see one.

The superstar guys have at least one attribute that is top 5 in the league.

In anycase...I have a difficult time seeing Flagg and Scotty making a good pairing. They both scream elite role player to me.

All this being said....scotty is a HUGE team asset. The Swiss army knife in a starting 5. He's just nothing close to what his crazy diehard fans envisioned. And he doesn't have the maturity or work ethic to transcend his limitations. Through no fault of his own, "golden child" is actually a really good moniker for him.

Imagine if any raptor had the shaqting a fool moment of gloating during an open dunk while down 15 points and then getting blocked. That was embarrassing. But the most toxic people who would make viral clips of it scores with circus music also happen to be scotty boosters.

There would be endless pages and pages and pages about that play if fred or siakam ever committed such an atrocity.