Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[Ripp]

I've thought about it a bit...if you are the Rockets and you manage to grab Bosh, you almost don't want to give those Knicks picks away. Securing Bosh decreases the chance of LeBron going to the Knicks. If they spend big money on lesser talents (e.g., Joe Johnson+Boozer), then the'll at best be a ~40 win team in the East. Those Knicks picks could be extremely valuable, and gain value if CB doesn't go to the Knicks. Strong incentive to keep them, I think. Plus the optics of using the Knicks picks + Jordan Hill to sign Bosh look bad...no reason to make Walsh look like an idiot.

Yeah, really, what's the point of giving anything up at all? All of that stuff is useful. Keep everything, it's basically up to Morey and what the Raptors are looking for in a trade from a team over the cap has no bearing at all. There certainly won't be any negotiations at all and there's definitely no reason to give up anything of value to secure the services of a top 3 PF in the NBA.

Maybe you should think about it a little bit more.

Your reading comprehension is poor, it seems. I am considering the value of the Knicks picks if the Rockets successfully grab CB, relative to other assets they have...Congratulations, you've successfully beaten a straw man.

[pspot]

If the package becomes Hill and Rubio that's a lot more intriguing.
I still think a traditional C has to be the number one target for the Raps offseason and with that woudl leave the Raps with 3 PFs that need mins (assuming they bring back Amir)

[disoblige]

Hypothetical scenario :
Chicago offers 2nd round pick
Houston offers 1st round pick + assets
NY offers Lee
Miami offers Beasley + picks.

Bosh tells BC he wants to go to chicago. Raptors gets almost nothing.

[Kreamy]

From the rockets board.

Morey was on 790 this morning and while most of the conversation was just back and forth banter and largely irrelevant, some interesting notes:

1) Team is likely to move from their draft position again as they like to maximize assets. Whether up or down or out is unclear.

2) Team will definitely pay luxury tax next year.

3) Team will definitely use the MLE this offseason. Edit: Also said that the entire MLE will be taxed.

4) Les has given Morey the go ahead to take on big contracts if need be to get a star player. He is all in and only asks that Morey "be smart" with the money, but has given him no limitations. The question was obviously a reference to Turkey Glue.

its official, the 2010/2011 nba champions are your Houston Rockets . . .

I would love for the Hedo part to be true.

If we can get Ariza, picks and expiring contracts for Bosh and Turkoglu, I'd still make that trade even if Bosh wants to stay.

[neurotik]

If the package becomes Hill and Rubio that's a lot more intriguing.
I still think a traditional C has to be the number one target for the Raps offseason and with that woudl leave the Raps with 3 PFs that need mins (assuming they bring back Amir)

I dont see us getting Rubio (although I would love it). I agree that the Raps would be great with a traditional centre, but I think making the Bynum deal would not solve that problem because of his injuries. No matter how much I hear people say big risk big reward I disagree. Its almost a guarantee, not a risk. He just got injured again in the playoffs for Christ sakes. We would only have a traditional C for 1/3 or maybe 1/2 of the season, with a good chance of the injuries eventually taking away his skill and potential.

Houston is the better deal regardless of Rubio. It will give us enough prospects and financial flexibility to make a significant improvement in a few years (not to mention it almost guarantees us a top5-7 pick next year due to the fact that the rookies and Hill will take time to develop). Multiple prospect/picks will allow us to hedge our risk and increase our reward

[kingmalaki]

or Hill and Lull and a Knicks pick and cash...but the whole boatload?

The price and the cost is willingness to pay. Draft picks are 50/50 at best so 2 picks is like 1 prospect. Hill is a more known commodity than #14 2010 or number 20 2011. It should be 2 picks, 2 prospects as Jeffries is a salary dump and Battier could be returned after being waived. What would happen with Battier might affect what the take away actually is would it not? The 2010 and 2011 are average picks and with the 2011 it gets worse as the Rockets surely get better. If Battier is agreed to go back I could see there being another pick or prospect or player being thrown in and a pick being taken away. Colangelo is not big on picks. The Raptors have a 20 year old shooting guard whose weakness is shooting and is probably a better 3, an overpriced Turkoglu at the same position so is there room for Battier with Turkoglu and Derozan and Weems all able to play there? Houston does have the best assets no question so it remains to be seen if that improves their bargaining position or not. What is left to be determined is will CB$ be willing to consider Houston if there is a Lakers deal on the table? Houston has better parts long term, the Lakers have immediate help in theory.

You are saying it should be 2 picks and 2 prospects. My question is based on what? Historically that doesn't seem to be the case. JJ was restricted and only got 2 picks and Diaw (who really was a throw in). K-Mart got 3 mid round picks. Folks keep throwing out these deals involving Houston giving up 2-3 young prospects and like 2-3 picks (a combo of each). I'm saying that has never happened....not in any case that I can recall. So why would it happen here, when Bosh has more options than those other free agents did?

[kingmalaki]

I can see something like Hill and both of the Kincks picks, or Hill and our pick and a Knicks pick, or Hill and Lull and a Knicks pick and cash...but the whole boatload? If there has been a deal like that I would love to see it. The closest are the K-Mart and JJ trades, and those only included 3 young prospects (3 picks for Martin, 2 picks and Diaw for JJ).

The one notable difference is that in both of the examples you are giving, the main player was traded into cap space. In this situation, the Raptors would be required to take back at least $12.5 million in non-core contracts including Jared Jeffries and other scrubs. There would be an additional value assigned to taking on those contracts.

Ok, now thats a good response. But the only real bad deal is the Jeffries one. A package of Jeffries, Hill, Chase and Hayes (a option Toronto can decline payment on) gets Houston to $12.5M. Hill and Chase are young role players with decent contracts. I don't see a team being penalized for putting them in a deal, because those are typically the kind of deals teams covet....young talent on cheap deals.

But you are definately right about the other deals involving TE's. Maybe that will force Houston to offer more picks/players.

[Kevin Willis]

I can see something like Hill and both of the Kincks picks, or Hill and our pick and a Knicks pick, or Hill and Lull and a Knicks pick and cash...but the whole boatload? If there has been a deal like that I would love to see it. The closest are the K-Mart and JJ trades, and those only included 3 young prospects (3 picks for Martin, 2 picks and Diaw for JJ).

The one notable difference is that in both of the examples you are giving, the main player was traded into cap space. In this situation, the Raptors would be required to take back at least $12.5 million in non-core contracts including Jared Jeffries and other scrubs. There would be an additional value assigned to taking on those contracts.

Ok, now thats a good response. But the only real bad deal is the Jeffries one. A package of Jeffries, Hill, Chase and Hayes (a option Toronto can decline payment on) gets Houston to $12.5M. Hill and Chase are young role players with decent contracts. I don't see a team being penalized for putting them in a deal, because those are typically the kind of deals teams covet....young talent on cheap deals.

But you are definately right about the other deals involving TE's. Maybe that will force Houston to offer more picks/players.

Too many players coming back in this deal. 4 to 1 won't really help the raptors. Unless they buy out a player that goes back to Houston. Hill, Llull, draft pick(s) and player that will be bought out and return to Houston to cover the rest of the 12.5.

[Guy986]

or Hill and Lull and a Knicks pick and cash...but the whole boatload?

The price and the cost is willingness to pay. Draft picks are 50/50 at best so 2 picks is like 1 prospect. Hill is a more known commodity than #14 2010 or number 20 2011. It should be 2 picks, 2 prospects as Jeffries is a salary dump and Battier could be returned after being waived. What would happen with Battier might affect what the take away actually is would it not? The 2010 and 2011 are average picks and with the 2011 it gets worse as the Rockets surely get better. If Battier is agreed to go back I could see there being another pick or prospect or player being thrown in and a pick being taken away. Colangelo is not big on picks. The Raptors have a 20 year old shooting guard whose weakness is shooting and is probably a better 3, an overpriced Turkoglu at the same position so is there room for Battier with Turkoglu and Derozan and Weems all able to play there? Houston does have the best assets no question so it remains to be seen if that improves their bargaining position or not. What is left to be determined is will CB$ be willing to consider Houston if there is a Lakers deal on the table? Houston has better parts long term, the Lakers have immediate help in theory.

Look, if the LA Bynum deal is legit Bosh is going to the Lakers. Rockets can't compete with that offer and even if they could... they wouldn't. It all depends on if Andrew Bynum is on the table.

If the Raptors aren't big on draft picks then there is no S&T possibility between the Rockets and the Raptors.

[bballsparkin]

I would want Houston's pick this year and the NY swap pick next year. Those are the only picks that we can know for sure will be decent. All the other picks could very well be very late first rounders. Throw in Jefferies, Hayes and Chase/rights to Lull. That's decent. No great prospects from the bunch but it's a lot better than a TPE + first pick. Plus it would guarantee that the Raptors get a good pick in 2011. Which is key to me. Not to mention the 2011 expirings. And it sends Bosh west.

Houston gains an all-star forward on a good team with excellent management without losing a major piece. If Yao is healthy they could go all the way.

[neurotik]

Is it just me or does anyone else think that a Bynum trade would result in more mediocre play from the raps for the next few years. At least the Houston deal allows us to do a proper rebuild.

[bballsparkin]

To me, why would the Lakers trade Bynum? Like Laker fans have said, he looks to have the potential as an allstar center. Not exactly easy to come by. Plus he's younger and cheaper. So I'd be very worried about his health if the Lakers let him go.

[Raps in 4]

Found another little tidbit while digging through the forum at Clutchfans.com on another player that BC possibly has interest in from the Rockets. This is another summarizing of an interview this time from Richard Justice who is the man that wrote the "Rockets are preparing to woo Bosh" article from a couple days back. The interview was on Sports Radio 1560 am a couple days before he wrote the article that inspired the title of this thread:

Link:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=29

Richard Justice spoke about this today on 1560 with John and Lance. Justice does speak with Morey on a regular bases so I do take his word on it. He did report that Morey was trying to acquire Ricky Rubio.

He stated that Morey will be there at Chris Bosh's house at 12:01AM to talk to him about wanting to come to Houston. He said that Morey and his team was already working on some videos for him to see. He went on to talk about how Houston probably has the best offer out there to make a SnT work. He talked about how Colangelo and Morey are really good friends and Bryan Colangelo has interest in Jordon Hill and Sergio Llull.

But Justice did make a great point that I've been trying to make. There's two parties you have to please. So if Morey can convince Bosh to come to Houston, you still have to please Toronto. Toronto doesn't want to lose him empty-handed. At least in Houston, Bosh can be the "man" here.

Don't know anything about Llull but there is atleast another possible name on the radar other than Jordan Hill that would possibly be included in a package young players, expirings, and first round picks for Bosh.

Why would Morey be going after Rubio when he has Brooks? Everyone seems to think Rubio is going to be a top three point guard. I just don't see it. He doesn't have CP3's offense. Might have his passing ability. Doesn't have Rondo's speed. He could be great on D and passing, but if he isn't a scoring threat, how could he be top three?

Maybe BC asked Morey to see if he could get Rubio as part of a Bosh package??? What would you rather have for Bosh. Three good prospects (J Hill, and two first rounders) or one great prospect (Rubio)? I'd take Rubio even though he won't be coming over for another year.

Rubio alone would make any S&T with Bosh worth it. If BC can pull that off, his reputation will skyrocket again.

[panthermark]

Look, if the LA Bynum deal is legit Bosh is going to the Lakers. Rockets can't compete with that offer and even if they could... they wouldn't. It all depends on if Andrew Bynum is on the table.

If the Raptors aren't big on draft picks then there is no S&T possibility between the Rockets and the Raptors.

Here is a "joke" the Coldfish put on the Bulls board...as we try to explain to some of our own fans that there will be no bidding war.

Same situation applies (for the most part...there is a slight difference with over the cap teams...but you get the meaning).
------
Paxson: "Hey Chris, do you want to come to Chicago?"
Bosh: "No, I really like LA and Houston."
Paxson: "Well, if we gave up Noah and a pick for you, would that make us more desirable?"
Bosh: "So, the rumors are true. You are crazy."
------
As has been stated by those outside of the Raptor fan base many times over....it really does not matter what other teams have to offer. Bosh will end up with the team he chooses. The only people that want some type of bidding war is BC and his followers. Players in the league have managed to force traded when they were still under contract (as I'm sure you guys know), there is no reason to think that a free agent can't get to the team that he wants to go to.

[OAKLEY_2]

[*]Hypothetical scenario :
Chicago offers 2nd round pick
Houston offers 1st round pick + assets
NY offers Lee
Miami offers Beasley + picks.

Bosh tells BC he wants to go to chicago. Raptors gets almost nothing.

Hypothetical for sure. Likely? Not very. Bosh is much more likely to go to a team that is maxed out with the best talent on big contracts. Chicago or Miami are not on that type of list. If any of us had a choice to play for the Lakers or Chicago or Miami let's be real we'd all pick LA every time.

A wing that can create is a stated desire of Bosh's in terms of a key team component. Miami? No. Chicago? No. Houston yes. LA yes. Toronto? It is still very early. It is just as likely Bosh stays in Toronto as it is him going to the Bulls or Miami unless one of those 2 teams land a really big fish. Let's face reality those 2 teams are just not that good and at this point NYK are dreadful. The constant returning to worst case option: second round pick and the TPE is not going to happen. People who keep returning to that scenario are subscribing to a flawed idea that this is an adversarial situation. It is not so.

[Fairview4Life]

Look, if the LA Bynum deal is legit Bosh is going to the Lakers. Rockets can't compete with that offer and even if they could... they wouldn't. It all depends on if Andrew Bynum is on the table.

If the Raptors aren't big on draft picks then there is no S&T possibility between the Rockets and the Raptors.

Here is a "joke" the Coldfish put on the Bulls board...as we try to explain to some of our own fans that there will be no bidding war.

Same situation applies (for the most part...there is a slight difference with over the cap teams...but you get the meaning).
------
Paxson: "Hey Chris, do you want to come to Chicago?"
Bosh: "No, I really like LA and Houston."
Paxson: "Well, if we gave up Noah and a pick for you, would that make us more desirable?"
Bosh: "So, the rumors are true. You are crazy."
------
As has been stated by those outside of the Raptor fan base many times over....it really does not matter what other teams have to offer. Bosh will end up with the team he chooses. The only people that want some type of bidding war is BC and his followers. Players in the league have managed to force traded when they were still under contract (as I'm sure you guys know), there is no reason to think that a free agent can't get to the team that he wants to go to.

And you keep thinking he will have a massive preference of one team over any other. I still haven't heard why this is the case. Why is Bosh saying LA or Houston only and not Chicago, for example?

[Raps in 4]

[*]Hypothetical scenario :
Chicago offers 2nd round pick
Houston offers 1st round pick + assets
NY offers Lee
Miami offers Beasley + picks.

Bosh tells BC he wants to go to chicago. Raptors gets almost nothing.

Hypothetical for sure. Likely? Not very. Bosh is much more likely to go to a team that is maxed out with the best talent on big contracts. Chicago or Miami are not on that type of list. If any of us had a choice to play for the Lakers or Chicago or Miami let's be real we'd all pick LA every time.

A wing that can create is a stated desire of Bosh's in terms of a key team component. Miami? No. Chicago? No. Houston yes. LA yes. Toronto? It is still very early. It is just as likely Bosh stays in Toronto as it is him going to the Bulls or Miami unless one of those 2 teams land a really big fish. Let's face reality those 2 teams are just not that good and at this point NYK are dreadful. The constant returning to worst case option: second round pick and the TPE is not going to happen. People who keep returning to that scenario are subscribing to a flawed idea that this is an adversarial situation. It is not so.

Chicago would be a lot better if they added Bosh. Bosh and Noah would be an awesome frontcourt.

[Guy986]

Look, if the LA Bynum deal is legit Bosh is going to the Lakers. Rockets can't compete with that offer and even if they could... they wouldn't. It all depends on if Andrew Bynum is on the table.

If the Raptors aren't big on draft picks then there is no S&T possibility between the Rockets and the Raptors.

Here is a "joke" the Coldfish put on the Bulls board...as we try to explain to some of our own fans that there will be no bidding war.

Same situation applies (for the most part...there is a slight difference with over the cap teams...but you get the meaning).
------
Paxson: "Hey Chris, do you want to come to Chicago?"
Bosh: "No, I really like LA and Houston."
Paxson: "Well, if we gave up Noah and a pick for you, would that make us more desirable?"
Bosh: "So, the rumors are true. You are crazy."
------
As has been stated by those outside of the Raptor fan base many times over....it really does not matter what other teams have to offer. Bosh will end up with the team he chooses. The only people that want some type of bidding war is BC and his followers. Players in the league have managed to force traded when they were still under contract (as I'm sure you guys know), there is no reason to think that a free agent can't get to the team that he wants to go to.

I don't believe that there will be a full blown bidding war in the NBA for Bosh's service but i do believe that BC holds some leverage. You'll have to give the Raptors something for Chris Bosh imo.

Lets say Bosh is dead set on going to Chicago. But he also wants his 6th year so a S&T must happen between Chicago and Toronto. So Bosh goes to BC and say

"My heart is in Chicago. Imma go there no matter what. Trade me."

But Chicago is only willing to offer James Johnson, TPE and a future first in a S&T.

BC is going to come back to Bosh and say "I'm not taking that offer. You'll have to give me another team to work with otherwise you can sign with Chicago outright"

What is Chris Bosh going to do in that scenario? I think Bosh has more to lose than the Raptors in this. James Johnson and a future first(likely in the 20th range) isn't going to do anything for the franchise. Is bosh going to sign with Chicago and lose out on that 6th year and 30 million? No, he's going to come back, make a compromise and say....

"Chicago is my first option but i'm also willing to go to Houston"

If Houston beats Chicago's offer of James Johnson, TPE and a future first, Morey gets Bosh.

[hype_2004]

Look, if the LA Bynum deal is legit Bosh is going to the Lakers. Rockets can't compete with that offer and even if they could... they wouldn't. It all depends on if Andrew Bynum is on the table.

If the Raptors aren't big on draft picks then there is no S&T possibility between the Rockets and the Raptors.

Here is a "joke" the Coldfish put on the Bulls board...as we try to explain to some of our own fans that there will be no bidding war.

Same situation applies (for the most part...there is a slight difference with over the cap teams...but you get the meaning).
------
Paxson: "Hey Chris, do you want to come to Chicago?"
Bosh: "No, I really like LA and Houston."
Paxson: "Well, if we gave up Noah and a pick for you, would that make us more desirable?"
Bosh: "So, the rumors are true. You are crazy."
------
As has been stated by those outside of the Raptor fan base many times over....it really does not matter what other teams have to offer. Bosh will end up with the team he chooses. The only people that want some type of bidding war is BC and his followers. Players in the league have managed to force traded when they were still under contract (as I'm sure you guys know), there is no reason to think that a free agent can't get to the team that he wants to go to.

I don't believe that there will be a full blown bidding war in the NBA for Bosh's service but i do believe that BC holds some leverage. You'll have to give the Raptors something for Chris Bosh imo.

Lets say Bosh is dead set on going to Chicago. But he also wants his 6th year so a S&T must happen between Chicago and Toronto. So Bosh goes to BC and say

"My heart is in Chicago. Imma go there no matter what. Trade me."

But Chicago is only willing to offer James Johnson, TPE and a future first in a S&T.

BC is going to come back to Bosh and say "I'm not taking that offer. You'll have to give me another team to work with otherwise you can sign with Chicago outright"

What is Chris Bosh going to do in that scenario? I think Bosh has more to lose than the Raptors in this. James Johnson and a future first(likely in the 20th range) isn't going to do anything for the franchise. Is bosh going to sign with Chicago and lose out on that 6th year and 30 million? No, he's going to come back, make a compromise and say....

"Chicago is my first option but i'm also willing to go to Houston"

If Houston beats Chicago's offer of James Johnson, TPE and a future first, Morey gets Bosh.

Then BC will counter "Only if Hedo is coming along with you" Bosh's reply " Aww Nuts"

[panthermark]

[*]Hypothetical scenario :
Chicago offers 2nd round pick
Houston offers 1st round pick + assets
NY offers Lee
Miami offers Beasley + picks.

Bosh tells BC he wants to go to chicago. Raptors gets almost nothing.

Hypothetical for sure. Likely? Not very. Bosh is much more likely to go to a team that is maxed out with the best talent on big contracts. Chicago or Miami are not on that type of list. If any of us had a choice to play for the Lakers or Chicago or Miami let's be real we'd all pick LA every time.

A wing that can create is a stated desire of Bosh's in terms of a key team component. Miami? No. Chicago? No. Houston yes. LA yes. Toronto? It is still very early. It is just as likely Bosh stays in Toronto as it is him going to the Bulls or Miami unless one of those 2 teams land a really big fish. Let's face reality those 2 teams are just not that good and at this point NYK are dreadful. The constant returning to worst case option: second round pick and the TPE is not going to happen. People who keep returning to that scenario are subscribing to a flawed idea that this is an adversarial situation. It is not so.

Why is Bosh more likely to go to a team that is capped out over Chicago or even Miami?

And are you saying that Rose and Wade don't count? What "wing" are you talking about...Ariza and Artest? All-Star guards are probably on the "approved" list. So I guess Bosh would not want to play with Paul or Williams? Or do SG's only count when it fits your need (Kobe but not Wade?)

And last I checked, both Miami and Chicago finished ahead of Toronto...and have a chance of being even better next year based on this summer.