ImageImageImageImageImage

Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer

User avatar
God Squad
RealGM
Posts: 13,350
And1: 11,594
Joined: Feb 22, 2010
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#481 » by God Squad » Fri Jul 9, 2021 6:59 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:
720 wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
Pistons are willing to trade the pick for a reason. Cade is not way above everyone else.


This isn't a Zion, AD, Lebron kind of guy. More of a Wiggins, towns and Kyrie level

Hey this was said months ago so I’m not sure if it was you or not. But did you ever say Cade is the 5th best prospect in this draft? Might have not been you but just wondering.


I'll admit I'm not as high on Cade as others. I like his size but he doesn't do anything great.

Not a great shooter, not a great athelte, not great vision, not a great handle, not many iso moves.


I do think Mobley and Green have more potential than Cade, yes! And I wouldn't be surprised if Suggs or Kuminga become better as well. I don't think he's a lock to be a superstar

I'm also lower on Cade than most around here. I'd rank the top 4

T1
Green + Mobley
T2
Cade + Suggs
Image
UnderdogRaptors
RealGM
Posts: 35,216
And1: 44,452
Joined: Oct 30, 2012
Location: Suspended.
       

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#482 » by UnderdogRaptors » Fri Jul 9, 2021 7:54 am

lol
;ab_channel=RaptorsFan2
Image
BC_IS_A_PLAYA wrote:jonas sucks, his dad should have got a vasectomy
AussieRaptor
Junior
Posts: 457
And1: 460
Joined: Dec 25, 2014
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#483 » by AussieRaptor » Fri Jul 9, 2021 10:02 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:
720 wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
Pistons are willing to trade the pick for a reason. Cade is not way above everyone else.


This isn't a Zion, AD, Lebron kind of guy. More of a Wiggins, towns and Kyrie level

Hey this was said months ago so I’m not sure if it was you or not. But did you ever say Cade is the 5th best prospect in this draft? Might have not been you but just wondering.


I'll admit I'm not as high on Cade as others. I like his size but he doesn't do anything great.

Not a great shooter, not a great athelte, not great vision, not a great handle, not many iso moves.


I do think Mobley and Green have more potential than Cade, yes! And I wouldn't be surprised if Suggs or Kuminga become better as well. I don't think he's a lock to be a superstar


How is Cade not a great shooter? He shot 40% from 3 (6 attempts per game) and 85% from the line (6 attempts per game).

What would qualify as a “great shooter” if Cade isn’t?
User avatar
OAKLEY_2
RealGM
Posts: 20,206
And1: 9,190
Joined: Dec 19, 2008

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#484 » by OAKLEY_2 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 10:29 am

AussieRaptor wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
720 wrote:Hey this was said months ago so I’m not sure if it was you or not. But did you ever say Cade is the 5th best prospect in this draft? Might have not been you but just wondering.


I'll admit I'm not as high on Cade as others. I like his size but he doesn't do anything great.

Not a great shooter, not a great athelte, not great vision, not a great handle, not many iso moves.


I do think Mobley and Green have more potential than Cade, yes! And I wouldn't be surprised if Suggs or Kuminga become better as well. I don't think he's a lock to be a superstar


How is Cade not a great shooter? He shot 40% from 3 (6 attempts per game) and 85% from the line (6 attempts per game).

What would qualify as a “great shooter” if Cade isn’t?


Green ahead of Cade... That is, as yet to show up defence Green over 6'8 PG Cade. Two tiers. What is this the Skip and Shannon show?
User avatar
UnbelievablyRAW
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,735
And1: 4,521
Joined: Oct 29, 2011
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#485 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Fri Jul 9, 2021 12:49 pm

Was listening to Chad Fords podcast with Adam Stanco (long history as a scout) and one interesting point he made was that a guys high school tape is more indicative of their potential ceiling than their college tape. In college you don’t get the freedom to play to your strengths and often forced into a specific role, whereas in HS the top prospects are able to show out more and you don’t get to see that again until the NBA.

With that said, watching Suggs in high school you can see he dialed back his scoring to be more of a team guy in Gonzaga. Look how often he’d pull from deep 3 (his shot looks good too) and how often he’d attack the rim and make a variety of finishes. Yes the competition is trash high schoolers but it’s the confidence to take and make those kinds of shots that is encouraging. I guess the point that Adam was making being that their HS dominance is what they could/would look like if they hit their peak in the NBA

"Above average role player is now being paid like a superstar from one good playoff series. This will end up as one of the worst contracts in the league." paulbball on Pascal Siakam
User avatar
HumbleRen
RealGM
Posts: 18,507
And1: 25,530
Joined: Jul 02, 2021
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#486 » by HumbleRen » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:08 pm

UnbelievablyRAW wrote:Was listening to Chad Fords podcast with Adam Stanco (long history as a scout) and one interesting point he made was that a guys high school tape is more indicative of their potential ceiling than their college tape. In college you don’t get the freedom to play to your strengths and often forced into a specific role, whereas in HS the top prospects are able to show out more and you don’t get to see that again until the NBA.

With that said, watching Suggs in high school you can see he dialed back his scoring to be more of a team guy in Gonzaga. Look how often he’d pull from deep 3 (his shot looks good too) and how often he’d attack the rim and make a variety of finishes. Yes the competition is trash high schoolers but it’s the confidence to take and make those kinds of shots that is encouraging. I guess the point that Adam was making being that their HS dominance is what they could/would look like if they hit their peak in the NBA



I’m not sure about that lol.

The worst nba players were probably the best or one of the best HS players in their city. They’re all putting up 20-30 points in their sleep.

Suggs scoring output was definitely hampered by playing in that system though. For example, Cade played 8 more minutes than Suggs, was the main scorer and only averaged 5 more points than Suggs.

While Suggs was probably the 3rd option at best in terms of scoring, playing in games that were basically a blow out by the end of the 2nd quarter which would impact his scoring opportunities.

The close games or high stakes games is a good indicator of Suggs. He went from the 3rd scoring option to being the main focal point of the offence in those games.
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 19,104
And1: 11,341
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#487 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:08 pm

UnderdogRaptors wrote:lol
;ab_channel=RaptorsFan2


I. Can. Not. Stand. To. Listen. To. Bryan. Colangelo. What a phoney! Especially hard to hear his smooth patter knowing who the best players from the draft really were/are. "We got a bouncy five". If a bouncy five was what the Raps wanted, why did they force feed JV with beer and donuts?

But I remember this draft and lottery. The clip of the Derrick Williams dunk that kept being replayed. The disappointment of falling to 5. The elation when the Cavs reached for TT. I wanted Jonas at the time, but hey, I'm not a professional scout. These guys should know better. I just want to scream at the screen "Trade down for both Charlotte's picks and take Kawhi and Klay (or Butler)!"

I wonder if the TVA would have a problem with that?
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,428
And1: 51,844
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#488 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:09 pm

UnderdogRaptors wrote:lol
;ab_channel=RaptorsFan2


JV got drafted 10 years ago. Wow time flies.
TD2FutureStar
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,780
And1: 1,369
Joined: Feb 04, 2020

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#489 » by TD2FutureStar » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:12 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
AussieRaptor wrote:
NotMyKawhi wrote:
I'll admit I'm not as high on Cade as others. I like his size but he doesn't do anything great.

Not a great shooter, not a great athelte, not great vision, not a great handle, not many iso moves.


I do think Mobley and Green have more potential than Cade, yes! And I wouldn't be surprised if Suggs or Kuminga become better as well. I don't think he's a lock to be a superstar


How is Cade not a great shooter? He shot 40% from 3 (6 attempts per game) and 85% from the line (6 attempts per game).

What would qualify as a “great shooter” if Cade isn’t?


Green ahead of Cade... That is, as yet to show up defence Green over 6'8 PG Cade. Two tiers. What is this the Skip and Shannon show?

Every time I read your posts I imagine someone really hyped up on too much caffeine. Just the way it reads. Haha
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,824
And1: 24,253
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#490 » by mtcan » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:20 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
UnderdogRaptors wrote:lol
;ab_channel=RaptorsFan2


I. Can. Not. Stand. To. Listen. To. Bryan. Colangelo. What a phoney! Especially hard to hear his smooth patter knowing who the best players from the draft really were/are. "We got a bouncy five". If a bouncy five was what the Raps wanted, why did they force feed JV with beer and donuts?

But I remember this draft and lottery. The clip of the Derrick Williams dunk that kept being replayed. The disappointment of falling to 5. The elation when the Cavs reached for TT. I wanted Jonas at the time, but hey, I'm not a professional scout. These guys should know better. I just want to scream at the screen "Trade down for both Charlotte's picks and take Kawhi and Klay (or Butler)!"

I wonder if the TVA would have a problem with that?

To his credit...I don't think JV at #5 is the worst pick ever.

10 years later...JV is beasting in Memphis. 17 ppg, 12.5 rpg with a PER of 24 is seriously good especially at his salary. Difference between JV in Memphis and Toronto is that his usage and minutes went up and it despite that...Memphis is a very competitive team. They need JJJ to get back game shape and they will be in the playoffs next season.

DeAndre Ayton's playoff performance is going to start changing minds as to the role of a traditional big man going forward.
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 19,104
And1: 11,341
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#491 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:24 pm

God Squad wrote:My Comp for top 4
Cade - Middleton/Hayward type.


lol. Have you seen Cade's passing? I would easily compare Cade to Luka. Size, shooting, court vision - he's clearly the most projectable of the top four into being a superstar.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,428
And1: 51,844
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#492 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:30 pm

UnbelievablyRAW wrote:Was listening to Chad Fords podcast with Adam Stanco (long history as a scout) and one interesting point he made was that a guys high school tape is more indicative of their potential ceiling than their college tape. In college you don’t get the freedom to play to your strengths and often forced into a specific role, whereas in HS the top prospects are able to show out more and you don’t get to see that again until the NBA.

With that said, watching Suggs in high school you can see he dialed back his scoring to be more of a team guy in Gonzaga. Look how often he’d pull from deep 3 (his shot looks good too) and how often he’d attack the rim and make a variety of finishes. Yes the competition is trash high schoolers but it’s the confidence to take and make those kinds of shots that is encouraging. I guess the point that Adam was making being that their HS dominance is what they could/would look like if they hit their peak in the NBA



As Mark Few mentioned recently, he was surprised Suggs wanted to go to Gonzaga. Team was stacked, highly structured. Suggs is all about winning, never cared about his stats. That definitely has to taken into account.
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,824
And1: 24,253
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#493 » by mtcan » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:31 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
God Squad wrote:My Comp for top 4
Cade - Middleton/Hayward type.


lol. Have you seen Cade's passing? I would easily compare Cade to Luka. Size, shooting, court vision - he's clearly the most projectable of the top four into being a superstar.

Luka is the obvious comparison in terms of best case scenario.
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 19,104
And1: 11,341
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#494 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:31 pm

mtcan wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:I. Can. Not. Stand. To. Listen. To. Bryan. Colangelo. What a phoney! Especially hard to hear his smooth patter knowing who the best players from the draft really were/are. "We got a bouncy five". If a bouncy five was what the Raps wanted, why did they force feed JV with beer and donuts?

But I remember this draft and lottery. The clip of the Derrick Williams dunk that kept being replayed. The disappointment of falling to 5. The elation when the Cavs reached for TT. I wanted Jonas at the time, but hey, I'm not a professional scout. These guys should know better. I just want to scream at the screen "Trade down for both Charlotte's picks and take Kawhi and Klay (or Butler)!"

I wonder if the TVA would have a problem with that?

To his credit...I don't think JV at #5 is the worst pick ever.

10 years later...JV is beasting in Memphis. 17 ppg, 12.5 rpg with a PER of 24 is seriously good especially at his salary. Difference between JV in Memphis and Toronto is that his usage and minutes went up and it despite that...Memphis is a very competitive team. They need JJJ to get back game shape and they will be in the playoffs next season.

DeAndre Ayton's playoff performance is going to start changing minds as to the role of a traditional big man going forward.


How could you watch this Finals and think drafting bigs high is the way to go? Ayton is useful, but hell, Kyle made Bebe look useful catching those lobs.

The Suns are clearly - CLEARLY - being led by CP and Booker. It's a guard/wing-dominated league. I'm not saying not to draft Mobley if he falls. But if that's who we draft, let's not dirty bulk him up to DeAndre Jordan size. It's a different league.
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,824
And1: 24,253
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#495 » by mtcan » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:36 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
mtcan wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:I. Can. Not. Stand. To. Listen. To. Bryan. Colangelo. What a phoney! Especially hard to hear his smooth patter knowing who the best players from the draft really were/are. "We got a bouncy five". If a bouncy five was what the Raps wanted, why did they force feed JV with beer and donuts?

But I remember this draft and lottery. The clip of the Derrick Williams dunk that kept being replayed. The disappointment of falling to 5. The elation when the Cavs reached for TT. I wanted Jonas at the time, but hey, I'm not a professional scout. These guys should know better. I just want to scream at the screen "Trade down for both Charlotte's picks and take Kawhi and Klay (or Butler)!"

I wonder if the TVA would have a problem with that?

To his credit...I don't think JV at #5 is the worst pick ever.

10 years later...JV is beasting in Memphis. 17 ppg, 12.5 rpg with a PER of 24 is seriously good especially at his salary. Difference between JV in Memphis and Toronto is that his usage and minutes went up and it despite that...Memphis is a very competitive team. They need JJJ to get back game shape and they will be in the playoffs next season.

DeAndre Ayton's playoff performance is going to start changing minds as to the role of a traditional big man going forward.


How could you watch this Finals and think drafting bigs high is the way to go? Ayton is useful, but hell, Kyle made Bebe look useful catching those lobs.

The Suns are clearly - CLEARLY - being led by CP and Booker. It's a guard/wing-dominated league. I'm not saying not to draft Mobley if he falls. But if that's who we draft, let's not dirty bulk him up to DeAndre Jordan size. It's a different league.

I'm not advocating for drafting big men high...but 10 years ago it was still very much a thing to do.

Obviously today it may be more controversial to draft a "tradtional" center but JV was not a bad pick see what he is doing 10 years later.

I've been on record to say that I prefer drafting Suggs and Green and that I'd come to learn to love Mobley if we end up with him. I've also wondered if Kuminga might be an option because of my bias towards drafting guards/wings in the top 4.
will
RealGM
Posts: 52,083
And1: 50,740
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant. Shouts to Sheryl's Caribbean Cuisine
Contact:
         

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#496 » by will » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:48 pm

Speaking Jalen Suggs to the Raptors into existence.
User avatar
wtcantfw
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,294
And1: 3,594
Joined: Jun 18, 2005

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#497 » by wtcantfw » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:49 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
mtcan wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:I. Can. Not. Stand. To. Listen. To. Bryan. Colangelo. What a phoney! Especially hard to hear his smooth patter knowing who the best players from the draft really were/are. "We got a bouncy five". If a bouncy five was what the Raps wanted, why did they force feed JV with beer and donuts?

But I remember this draft and lottery. The clip of the Derrick Williams dunk that kept being replayed. The disappointment of falling to 5. The elation when the Cavs reached for TT. I wanted Jonas at the time, but hey, I'm not a professional scout. These guys should know better. I just want to scream at the screen "Trade down for both Charlotte's picks and take Kawhi and Klay (or Butler)!"

I wonder if the TVA would have a problem with that?

To his credit...I don't think JV at #5 is the worst pick ever.

10 years later...JV is beasting in Memphis. 17 ppg, 12.5 rpg with a PER of 24 is seriously good especially at his salary. Difference between JV in Memphis and Toronto is that his usage and minutes went up and it despite that...Memphis is a very competitive team. They need JJJ to get back game shape and they will be in the playoffs next season.

DeAndre Ayton's playoff performance is going to start changing minds as to the role of a traditional big man going forward.


How could you watch this Finals and think drafting bigs high is the way to go? Ayton is useful, but hell, Kyle made Bebe look useful catching those lobs.

The Suns are clearly - CLEARLY - being led by CP and Booker. It's a guard/wing-dominated league. I'm not saying not to draft Mobley if he falls. But if that's who we draft, let's not dirty bulk him up to DeAndre Jordan size. It's a different league.

Exactly. Ayton is beasting, but he's pretty much relegated to screener and roll man on offense. He picks up CP3 and Booker's scraps. Where his true value is is being mobile and agile enough to anchor the defense at his size. Do you need to use a high pick to get a guy with that skill set? Maybe.
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 27,824
And1: 24,253
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#498 » by mtcan » Fri Jul 9, 2021 1:58 pm

wtcantfw wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
mtcan wrote:To his credit...I don't think JV at #5 is the worst pick ever.

10 years later...JV is beasting in Memphis. 17 ppg, 12.5 rpg with a PER of 24 is seriously good especially at his salary. Difference between JV in Memphis and Toronto is that his usage and minutes went up and it despite that...Memphis is a very competitive team. They need JJJ to get back game shape and they will be in the playoffs next season.

DeAndre Ayton's playoff performance is going to start changing minds as to the role of a traditional big man going forward.


How could you watch this Finals and think drafting bigs high is the way to go? Ayton is useful, but hell, Kyle made Bebe look useful catching those lobs.

The Suns are clearly - CLEARLY - being led by CP and Booker. It's a guard/wing-dominated league. I'm not saying not to draft Mobley if he falls. But if that's who we draft, let's not dirty bulk him up to DeAndre Jordan size. It's a different league.

Exactly. Ayton is beasting, but he's pretty much relegated to screener and roll man on offense. He picks up CP3 and Booker's scraps. Where his true value is is being mobile and agile enough to anchor the defense at his size. Do you need to use a high pick to get a guy with that skill set? Maybe.

I'm on the side that says that elite guard/wing scoring is 100% essential to a building a winner...so Mobley at #4 is an important piece but won't turn this team into a contender. This is why I'm for a trade that somehow gets us another pick or 2 in the lottery...so you can give yourself a chance to find a potential elite wing/guard scoring option.
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,428
And1: 51,844
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#499 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Jul 9, 2021 2:01 pm

NBA Draft Prospects: Six wings the Raptors could select with picks No. 46 and 47


Kessler Edwards, Pepperdine (junior), 6-foot-8, 203 lbs., 6-foot-11.25 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 28, Vecenie mock: 39, Composite board: 38

Strengths: Great shooter with elite free-throw percentage to support, excellent defensive recognition and reaction time, great block rate for a forward, finished well inside against lesser competition, very strong combine games.

Concerns: Shot mechanics aren’t perfect or consistent with the tendency to miss short, needs to pull the trigger with more decisiveness, defence came with lapses at college level.



Aaron Henry, Michigan State (junior), 6-foot-6, 210 lbs., 6-foot-10.75 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 58, Vecenie mock: 51, Composite board: 40

Strengths: Great on-ball defence with motor-technique combination and strong block-steal rate, one of the best passing forwards in the class, just a very active player always looking to impact the game.

Concerns: Poor shooter on fair volume, just an OK athlete by NBA standards, increased playmaking comes with turnover cost, not as aggressive driving as he should be.






Herbert Jones, Alabama (senior), 6-foot-7.25, 206 lbs., 7-foot-0.25 wingspan, 22 years old
Vecenie board: 34, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 41

Strengths: One of the best perimeter defenders in NCAA with all the tools to make it translate, improved handle and playmaking, showed small-sample growth from 3 and at free-throw line as a senior, reputation as elite culture piece.

Concerns: No stand-out offensive skill and limited shooting track record, can skew foul- and turnover-prone, did it all start to click or was he just 22?





Joe Wieskamp, Iowa (sophomore), 6-foot-7.25, 205 lbs., 6-foot-11 wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 36, Vecenie mock: 53, Composite board: 49

Strengths: Claim as best shooter in class (after Corey Kispert), gets himself open well and shoots over top, some ability to attack closeout with mid-range/floater package, good length and burst.

Concerns: Likely to be limited defensively, ineffective in pick-and-roll opportunities, makes reads a beat late with ball in his hands, secondary specialist skills still in development.



Scottie Lewis, Florida (sophomore) 6-foot-5.25, 188 lbs., 7-foot wingspan, 21 years old
Vecenie board: 80, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 58

Strengths: Tremendous defender with monster steal and block rates, opponents basically stopped going near him, some slashing ability, big and fun personality, called me gorgeous on Zoom.

Concerns: Really limited offensive package with low volume, low efficiency and bad turnover rate, reluctant outside shooter, poor judgment of attractiveness on Zoom.






Justin Champagnie, Pittsburgh (sophomore), 6-foot-6.75, 206 lbs., 6-foot-9.5 wingspan, 20 years old
Vecenie board: 51, Vecenie mock: Undrafted, Composite board: 60

Strengths: Excellent bounce around rim on defence, good steal and block rates, improved playmaker with low turnover rate despite high usage, elite rebounder.

Concerns: Not much track record as an effective shooter despite getting attempts up, offensive production will be largely hustle-based to start, lesser one-on-one defender than others in this tier/archetype due to limited lateral quickness.




That’s where we could have been headed with Justin and Julian Champagnie until Julian opted to return to St. John’s for his junior season. Justin, meanwhile, kept his name in the mix, earning the definitive status of highest-ranked Champagnie twin in the 2021 draft.

Having said that, Champagnie is not mocked to be selected on any of the boards we surveyed. He does, however, rank as high as 37 on some boards, with a wide range that suggests he’s more of a two-way or Exhibit 10 target at this stage. Like a few others in this group, Champagnie offers good size at a forward position with some emerging secondary offensive skills — he showed some real playmaking feel without a spike in turnovers with that responsibility — but doesn’t have much track record of connecting on 3s (28 percent on 200 attempts over two seasons).

Despite not being the defender Jones or Lewis are, Champagnie offers elite rebounding and, despite his height, maybe a more natural path to undersized bench minutes. If he’s playing a more interior defensive game, he has a terrific first jump for contesting. He’s probably a (very fun) G Leaguer to start.
User avatar
UnbelievablyRAW
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,735
And1: 4,521
Joined: Oct 29, 2011
     

Re: Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!! 

Post#500 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Fri Jul 9, 2021 2:02 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
UnbelievablyRAW wrote:Was listening to Chad Fords podcast with Adam Stanco (long history as a scout) and one interesting point he made was that a guys high school tape is more indicative of their potential ceiling than their college tape. In college you don’t get the freedom to play to your strengths and often forced into a specific role, whereas in HS the top prospects are able to show out more and you don’t get to see that again until the NBA.

With that said, watching Suggs in high school you can see he dialed back his scoring to be more of a team guy in Gonzaga. Look how often he’d pull from deep 3 (his shot looks good too) and how often he’d attack the rim and make a variety of finishes. Yes the competition is trash high schoolers but it’s the confidence to take and make those kinds of shots that is encouraging. I guess the point that Adam was making being that their HS dominance is what they could/would look like if they hit their peak in the NBA



I’m not sure about that lol.

The worst nba players were probably the best or one of the best HS players in their city. They’re all putting up 20-30 points in their sleep.

Suggs scoring output was definitely hampered by playing in that system though. For example, Cade played 8 more minutes than Suggs, was the main scorer and only averaged 5 more points than Suggs.

While Suggs was probably the 3rd option at best in terms of scoring, playing in games that were basically a blow out by the end of the 2nd quarter which would impact his scoring opportunities.

The close games or high stakes games is a good indicator of Suggs. He went from the 3rd scoring option to being the main focal point of the offence in those games.


I wasn’t saying the high school tape is what we need to look at to truly evaluate guys, just that when evaluating the top prospects we can glean a broader range of their full skill set in their HS tape. You can see with Suggs he actually has no problem and confidence pulling up from deep when people go under screens or even early in the shot clock if he has a good look. Something you didn’t see with the Zags

Also a lot more acrobatic finishes than I had seen in his college film. Just in general the impression I got is that he would be fine in a shooting guard role as more of a scorer than he’s given credit for
"Above average role player is now being paid like a superstar from one good playoff series. This will end up as one of the worst contracts in the league." paulbball on Pascal Siakam

Return to Toronto Raptors