ImageImageImageImageImage

Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic)

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer

User avatar
Hero_Panda
Veteran
Posts: 2,522
And1: 3,996
Joined: Oct 15, 2015
Location: SHINE ON!
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#481 » by Hero_Panda » Thu Aug 5, 2021 9:20 pm

phanman wrote:
Hero_Panda wrote:People keep saying Precious can't shoot, but have they watched him play? Heat fans have said Riley/Spoelstra forced him into a Bam role but he's shown to have a mid-ranger and a developing 3pt shot, and I've seen highlights from the Olympics where he makes a seldom 3. That at least that tells me there's something to work with there.

In terms of Dragic, I don't think anyone is refuting that he sucks or washed, it's just that real prize of the trade was picks/Achiuwa with a good side addition of Okpala. Dragic really doesn't move the needle for this team from hopeful playoff contender to serious ECF contender, and he's definitely not young enough to join the youth movement...unless he pulls something like this in training camp...


Spoiler:
Anyone know where I can get good quality, cheap price of that Music Band shirt?

Yeah.. everybody is refuting this statement man. He doesn't suck nor is washed. :lol: It was only a year ago that he was a major piece in helping the Heat reach the finals


My bad, meant to type "saying" and not "refuting". The word "refuting" was in my mind as I was typing out my post.
"My life has been full of terrible misfortunes most of which never happened."-Montaigne
"at the Fed level, I'm a libertarian; state level, Republican; local level, Democrat; family and friends level, a socialist."-G & V Graham
biblast
RealGM
Posts: 10,436
And1: 4,812
Joined: Aug 24, 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
         

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#482 » by biblast » Thu Aug 5, 2021 9:21 pm

StopitLeo wrote:The deal is Lowry for Dragic + other stuff. The deal is not Lowry for Dragic moved to a third team + other stuff.

Toronto would have known that one outcome was having to keep Dragic. Miami would have known that if Toronto couldn’t find a third team for Dragic they would have to send more compensation. Simple as that. Nothing has been botched or whatever else people are suggesting.


You don't know that for a fact, you are speculating just like all of us! Not saying you are wrong but there is a long hold up for a reason which is not ideal any way you slice it.
Mr.Raptorsingh
RealGM
Posts: 35,018
And1: 28,653
Joined: May 17, 2007
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#483 » by Mr.Raptorsingh » Thu Aug 5, 2021 9:32 pm

Has Dragic been traded yet
User avatar
Bruin
RealGM
Posts: 25,214
And1: 39,708
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
       

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#484 » by Bruin » Fri Aug 6, 2021 2:04 am

Wasnt this supposed to be done by tonight?
Image
Appostis
Analyst
Posts: 3,667
And1: 3,006
Joined: May 11, 2021
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#485 » by Appostis » Fri Aug 6, 2021 2:07 am

PrinceAli wrote:Wasnt this supposed to be done by tonight?


Friday. Details would have to come out tomorrow. Or at least the official date when signings can happen.
Los_29
RealGM
Posts: 15,237
And1: 13,852
Joined: Apr 10, 2021

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#486 » by Los_29 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 2:08 am

I need a Woj bomb.
Purple Forever
Junior
Posts: 400
And1: 227
Joined: Jul 12, 2005

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#487 » by Purple Forever » Fri Aug 6, 2021 2:37 am

Don’t forget the rules on trading someone a second time. Once this goes through we will have Dragic till Dec if I remember correctly. So best to take all the time we need to see if he can be traded to a third team now.
User avatar
Courtside
RealGM
Posts: 19,452
And1: 14,185
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#488 » by Courtside » Fri Aug 6, 2021 2:48 am

Purple Forever wrote:Don’t forget the rules on trading someone a second time. Once this goes through we will have Dragic till Dec if I remember correctly. So best to take all the time we need to see if he can be traded to a third team now.

He can be traded at any time by himself. The rule does prohibit using him in a package deal, tho.
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 9,522
And1: 2,227
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#489 » by Village Idiot » Fri Aug 6, 2021 6:40 am

I posted the following on my home Portland boardand I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

BNM wrote:
Matt800 wrote:He would be a good fit, but I don't think it is realistic from both sides. Why would Toronto want CJ? And why would Portland want a guy who cant play for 1-2 months to start the season? Portland needs a good season and that really wouldn't help.
Why would TOR want CJ? I don't think they would. I think there would need to be a third team involved.
Toronto's had some big shortcomings which CJ addresses:

Isolation scoring:

If we look at a list of the leagues best isolation scorers from last season, using 2 isolation possesions per game as a threshold, they only had 1 player, Pascal Siakam, on the list. Nobody else was good enough at isolation scoring to even attempt it. Siakam managed .94 PPP which put him in the 62.5 percentile of all players, not just those who met my filtering criteria. CJ, on the other hand, was 5th on that list with 1.09 PPP and 88.7 percentile.

Pick-and-roll ball handling

The pick-and-roll is the staple of modern NBA sets. Its prevalence has been increasing every year. The Raptors are lacking in this area. If we look at the NBA leaders for this playtype, again using 2 possessions as pick and roll ballhandler as the minimum threshold, we see all of the Blazers guards at the top of the list. Norm Powell (when he was with the Raptors) and Dame are both top 5 with 1.12 and 1.07 PPP. CJ isn't too far down at 1.02 PPG and Ant at .99. Siakam is right below him at .98. FVV is a ways down at .92 and Dragic (whom they probably won't keep) and Flynn are quite a ways down the list.

Spot-up shooting:

CJ is 5th on the listbehind both Snell and Ant. The first current Raptor, OG Anunoby, doesn't even appear until the 2nd page. FVV and GTJ appear further down on that page.

In general FVV is not all that good. He's a really likeable guy but should be coming off the bench as the third guard and not starting.

One thing that is clear though is that Siakam is by far the Raptors best player and he does a lot of the same things well that CJ does. If they want to win now and not later they should want to add CJ to Siakam.

I would instead suggest that two Raptors roll players, OG and Boucher, would be both more attainable and better complimentary fits for our team. They are both efficient role players who don't require a lot of touches whereas Siakam is a guy who needs to be in focus.

CJ for OG and Dragic is a deal that makes both teams better and works fine under the CBA. OG slots in starting at SF for us and Dragic gives us a fantastic 3rd guard and insurance in case Dame is out for any extended period of time.
"There are no right answers to wrong questions." - Ursula K. Le Guin
Appostis
Analyst
Posts: 3,667
And1: 3,006
Joined: May 11, 2021
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#490 » by Appostis » Fri Aug 6, 2021 6:48 am

I value OG and/or Pascal over CJ.
People are out there saying Pascal/FVV are aged out of the core...yet at 30 year(Sept birthday) CJ is what the team needs?

No thanks. Team is better off seeing what it has with its current roster, and if needed fix weaknesses next season.
dkb9696
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,265
And1: 968
Joined: Sep 01, 2020
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#491 » by dkb9696 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 11:17 am

Am I correct to assume that the trade will be announced today.
Apz
Head Coach
Posts: 6,773
And1: 2,503
Joined: Jan 18, 2019
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#492 » by Apz » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:07 pm

mihaic wrote:Come February we'll peddle Dragic to Philly instead of Lowry. Pressure would be on Morey, that would be epic. Dragic was not washed playing for Slovenia NT


Eh, wrong dragic. Goran didnt play in slovenias first ever olympics because he "needed to rest". Worrying by itself
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,410
And1: 51,835
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#493 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:24 pm

Should hearnsomething by 12pm if we are trading him
dkb9696
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,265
And1: 968
Joined: Sep 01, 2020
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#494 » by dkb9696 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:25 pm

Apz wrote:
mihaic wrote:Come February we'll peddle Dragic to Philly instead of Lowry. Pressure would be on Morey, that would be epic. Dragic was not washed playing for Slovenia NT


Eh, wrong dragic. Goran didnt play in slovenias first ever olympics because he "needed to rest". Worrying by itself


You could also look at it that he will be healthy and well rested.
mihaic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,697
And1: 3,857
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#495 » by mihaic » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:28 pm

Apz wrote:
mihaic wrote:Come February we'll peddle Dragic to Philly instead of Lowry. Pressure would be on Morey, that would be epic. Dragic was not washed playing for Slovenia NT


Eh, wrong dragic. Goran didnt play in slovenias first ever olympics because he "needed to rest". Worrying by itself

he had a good game against Germany. 11/13 shooting.
dkb9696
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,265
And1: 968
Joined: Sep 01, 2020
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#496 » by dkb9696 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:30 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:Should hearnsomething by 12pm if we are trading him


What makes you say that
User avatar
dhackett1565
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,883
And1: 2,152
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Location: Pessimist central, wondering how I got here, unable to find my way out.

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#497 » by dhackett1565 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:39 pm

dkb9696 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Should hearnsomething by 12pm if we are trading him


What makes you say that


If the Heat and Lowry want to get it over with, noon is when they are allowed to officially sign the contract, and the deal needs to happen roughly at the same time as the signing. So noon is a fair expectation of an announcement of the trade details, and any Dragic trade is easier to pull off if rolled directly into the Lowry SnT than trying to flip him later. Of course, it is possible, but there is at least a reason to believe that the odds of hearing something go up once the SnT is happening.
Alfred re: Coach Mitchell - "My doctor botched my surgury and sewed my hand to my head, but I can't really comment on that, because I'm not a doctor, and thus he is above my criticism."
User avatar
dhackett1565
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,883
And1: 2,152
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Location: Pessimist central, wondering how I got here, unable to find my way out.

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#498 » by dhackett1565 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:42 pm

Courtside wrote:
Purple Forever wrote:Don’t forget the rules on trading someone a second time. Once this goes through we will have Dragic till Dec if I remember correctly. So best to take all the time we need to see if he can be traded to a third team now.

He can be traded at any time by himself. The rule does prohibit using him in a package deal, tho.


Yes, though it is not until Dec/Jan. Dragic can be flipped immediately (even with other pieces, so long as we don't need to combine their salaries to match a bigger salary coming back). If we need to aggregate his salary we have to wait until 2 months after we trade for him.

So if the plan is for a big salary coming back, it is definitely easier to trade him immediately so that we aren't really trading him but rolling that Dragic trade into the Lowry trade. For any smaller salaries there is no particular rush, besides the team likely wanting any prospect return to be available for summer league.
Alfred re: Coach Mitchell - "My doctor botched my surgury and sewed my hand to my head, but I can't really comment on that, because I'm not a doctor, and thus he is above my criticism."
User avatar
WuTang_CMB
RealGM
Posts: 41,410
And1: 51,835
Joined: Sep 26, 2017
   

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#499 » by WuTang_CMB » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:44 pm

dkb9696 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Should hearnsomething by 12pm if we are trading him


What makes you say that


moratorium lifted. I get the sense raps/miami being extra cautious with what happend last year with the Bucks

Read on Twitter
dkb9696
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,265
And1: 968
Joined: Sep 01, 2020
 

Re: Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic) 

Post#500 » by dkb9696 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:44 pm

dhackett1565 wrote:
dkb9696 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:Should hearnsomething by 12pm if we are trading him


What makes you say that


If the Heat and Lowry want to get it over with, noon is when they are allowed to officially sign the contract, and the deal needs to happen roughly at the same time as the signing. So noon is a fair expectation of an announcement of the trade details, and any Dragic trade is easier to pull off if rolled directly into the Lowry SnT than trying to flip him later. Of course, it is possible, but there is at least a reason to believe that the odds of hearing something go up once the SnT is happening.


Thanks. I am looking forward when everything is made official. I am not holding my breath regarding Dragic being traded though. Do you know of there Is there any truth that the Heat need to improve the trade package if Dragic is not traded in a 3 team deal?

Return to Toronto Raptors