Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Basketball_Jones]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

[Son Goku 25]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

Honestly I can respect that. Didn't take that long to realize he isn't a first option, he's more of a Draymond or Lowry in a sense which is fine. We need that kind of player to win esp as a big man who can now hopefully focus more on defense and pick and choose his spots to score plus facilitate.

[DreamTeam09]

If you look at his %s from yr to yr it's up to down to up to down this year because you play, try new things, play some more, try new things, I mean that seems like a pretty normal player development arc to me, but hey I don't need everyone to go in and out dribble cross into the step back 3 from day 1 to appreciate a player.

[Scase]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

[Basketball_Jones]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Yeah I think the mandate was these are the guys you chose Masai and you got this years pick I want to see some results next season. He probably got worried some Ingram is like an insurance plan in case he whiffs on the pick and Scottie/IQ/RJ/Yak continue being mid.

[Los_29]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Raptors traded Indy's pick next year. They still have their FRP this year.

[Tripod]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Raptors traded Indy's pick next year. They still have their FRP this year.

Some people just can't see the obvious.

Masai took a chance that a borderline AllStar would help the team more than a likely 20-30 pick would. Yes there is risk but let's not pretend there isn't risk in drafting an unproven 20 year old at #20....not ti mention it could take years to reach upside, if ever.

This is 1 step along the journey, not the final step. People need to relax. We added a 20+ point player for a mid 1st to a team needing a scoring option.

[Scase]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Yeah I think the mandate was these are the guys you chose Masai and you got this years pick I want to see some results next season. He probably got worried some Ingram is like an insurance plan in case he whiffs on the pick and Scottie/IQ/RJ/Yak continue being mid.

That's been my vibe as well, I mentioned it elsewhere but I feel like it's all a reaction to the outcome of the Jak trade. When that was made Masai had like 3 years or so left on his contract, it failed and he had to pivot, but he pivoted too late, and now he's essentially a player in his contract year, gotta make the production look good so you can sell the check signers on the future. So we make a move to be able to compete for the play in/playoff so he can negotiate a new contract.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm interested to see how BI fits/plays on the team, and how Scotties game is impacted by it, definitely more intrigued than I was after the RJ/IQ trade. Hopefully some extra spacing on the floor can open it up for Scottie and we can see him focus more on the inside 3pt game, cause that 3pt shot, aint it.

[Thaddy]

We're going to sell him on his current contract after a failed few years of competing. He's the worst 20PPG scorer in the league, there's no way that can be a part of a contending core. We are overvaluing crappy players on our roster. Gradey, Barnes, and Barrett are not pieces to the championship puzzle.

I hope we can draft an actual core piece in this draft and sell soon. The two timeline approach is more of a business / financial move than a contending move. The reality is we need to make winning "sell" trades that bring in pick flexibility. They jumped the gun and bought low on Ingram, which is a neutral move.

I would have liked for us to keep that mid first from Indiana, turn Brown/Olynyk/Mitchell/Boucher into 2nd rounders we could develop and sell later for more pick flexibility while we develop high end lottery talent.

If we have Tre Johnson and 2 more lottery picks that we developed, and then added a consolidation piece for the picks and youth we developed, that would be more in line with a winning move than what we've done.

[Los_29]

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Raptors traded Indy's pick next year. They still have their FRP this year.

Some people just can't see the obvious.

Masai took a chance that a borderline AllStar would help the team more than a likely 20-30 pick would. Yes there is risk but let's not pretend there isn't risk in drafting an unproven 20 year old at #20....not ti mention it could take years to reach upside, if ever.

This is 1 step along the journey, not the final step. People need to relax. We added a 20+ point player for a mid 1st to a team needing a scoring option.

I actually don’t even get it. Isn’t drafting in the lottery what they want? We have an upcoming lottery pick and just added a great player for literally nothing.

If they have no faith in drafting young players then they should cheer for a more established team.

[ArthurVandelay]

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

Raptors traded Indy's pick next year. They still have their FRP this year.

Some people just can't see the obvious.

Masai took a chance that a borderline AllStar would help the team more than a likely 20-30 pick would. Yes there is risk but let's not pretend there isn't risk in drafting an unproven 20 year old at #20....not ti mention it could take years to reach upside, if ever.

This is 1 step along the journey, not the final step. People need to relax. We added a 20+ point player for a mid 1st to a team needing a scoring option.

The interesting wrinkle is BI is a former #2 pick

[Basketball_Jones]

Like a very good version of Draymond is what Scottie’s best role is imo. Do it all everything and cover on defense while the real offensive stars do the heavy lifting. Like he can certainly change that narrative someday but it’s going to take a monster offseason of improvement which we haven’t seen quite yet.

[TorontoBarneys]

Raptors traded Indy's pick next year. They still have their FRP this year.

Some people just can't see the obvious.

Masai took a chance that a borderline AllStar would help the team more than a likely 20-30 pick would. Yes there is risk but let's not pretend there isn't risk in drafting an unproven 20 year old at #20....not ti mention it could take years to reach upside, if ever.

This is 1 step along the journey, not the final step. People need to relax. We added a 20+ point player for a mid 1st to a team needing a scoring option.

I actually don’t even get it. Isn’t drafting in the lottery what they want? We have an upcoming lottery pick and just added a great player for literally nothing.

If they have no faith in drafting young players then they should cheer for a more established team.

Sure you do, you're just being obtuse because you can't help it.

Trading away any chance at a top '26 pick for Ingram is a move. It's a move that could play out well, or it could end up negatively impacting the team's prospects. It's not a foregone conclusion that what they just did was the most sensible thing to do, nor is it yet obvious if it was a mistake.

You are sitting behind a computer screen wondering why tankers want to tank. Can you give it a rest, maybe?

And before you strawman me - I actually like the move (for the time being), and think it could turn out pretty well for the franchise as long as we get a stud in the next draft. If we don't, we are likely headed for mediocrity, and that's what most people don't want (some fans are fine with it, as we've seen multiple times on this forum).

[LoganAndWade]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

U guys love the word treadmilling.. I think u think, any team that doesn't win the chip is "treadmilling"
Have you heard of : acquiring talent/assests ? Tradable talent .. if u have a BUNCH of talent, but no real superstar.. at some point u try to combine a few of those star players into one superstar .. while still keeping a few star players for that super star to compete with ...
I genuinely think u just look for any reason to post negativity and put no actual critical thinking into what you're saying !

[GLF]

What I’m confused about with the tankers who hate this move is BI is not going to affect our tank and draft position for this upcoming draft because he’s barely gonna play in the second half. So whether we draft a stud or not has nothing to do with BI lol. If the front office misses on this draft they just missed and it is what it is. You win some you lose some. I choose to believe in the front office because they have a good history of drafting well overall. But you won’t nail it every time, that’s just the reality.

And if y’all want to cry about the 20th or so pick we gave up that’s on y’all. The likelihood of that pick becoming as good as BI is very low. And tankers know this because they’re the first to scream about how the lower the draft pick the less likely you are to get a star. Which is why they want us to tank so bad in the first place. Other than the health worry, which 90% of people agree is a worry, I don’t understand what everyone is going on about.

Y’all said this team needs another star level player alongside Scottie. Y’all said this team needs talent. When healthy, BI is both of those things but people are still complaining. That draft pick isn’t guaranteed to become a star and even if they do become a star it will take a few years of development to get them there. No one in this draft is generational, so I expect that player to take 3-4 years to become a star if they even become one at all. Only generational players become stars within their first 2 years or so of being in the league. I don’t know, all of this just feels like people wanting to complain and be mad just to be mad.

[Scase]

All star my ass lol. I like Scottie but Masai probably sees we’re gonna be tanking forever if we’re building around him.

It rings a bit hollow to me by trading for Ingram though. Propping him/the team up with a short term solution who is often injured, is just trading rebuilding forever around Scottie, to treadmilling around Scottie.

U guys love the word treadmilling.. I think u think, any team that doesn't win the chip is "treadmilling"
Have you heard of : acquiring talent/assests ? Tradable talent .. if u have a BUNCH of talent, but no real superstar.. at some point u try to combine a few of those star players into one superstar .. while still keeping a few star players for that super star to compete with ...
I genuinely think u just look for any reason to post negativity and put no actual critical thinking into what you're saying !

And what critical thinking are you putting in here? You just used an incredibly wide blanket statement of "acquire assets and combine them into a superstar", like realistically when does that happen? And if your example is Kawhi, like it usually is with people that suggest such a vague course of action, kawhi was injured, and was an expiring that never had any chance of staying put, so basically if that results in anything less than a chip, it's a horrible outcome.

This isn't even about tanking vs not tanking, it's about acquiring enough talent, with enough room to grow that the team doesn't get capped in that perennial 1st/2nd round exit territory. There is not a single player on this roster that has the potential to become good enough to move us out of that range. This is about rebuilding vs retooling, the latter of which is what we are doing.

Acquire assets all you want, but assets are only assets, if other teams are willing to trade something of value for them. What happened this deadline? We had KD refuse to be traded, Jimmy dictated like 2-3 locations and he ended up in one of them, Fox who isn't even close to the level of either of those 2 players essentially forced his way to SAS, and so on. You can have all the assets in the world, but if you can't trade them for this magical superstar player, it doesn't matter.

What I’m confused about with the tankers who hate this move is BI is not going to affect our tank and draft position for this upcoming draft because he’s barely gonna play in the second half. So whether we draft a stud or not has nothing to do with BI lol. If the front office misses on this draft they just missed and it is what it is. You win some you lose some. I choose to believe in the front office because they have a good history of drafting well overall. But you won’t nail it every time, that’s just the reality.

And if y’all want to cry about the 20th or so pick we gave up that’s on y’all. The likelihood of that pick becoming as good as BI is very low. And tankers know this because they’re the first to scream about how the lower the draft pick the less likely you are to get a star. Which is why they want us to tank so bad in the first place. Other than the health worry, which 90% of people agree is a worry, I don’t understand what everyone is going on about.

Y’all said this team needs another star level player alongside Scottie. Y’all said this team needs talent. When healthy, BI is both of those things but people are still complaining. That draft pick isn’t guaranteed to become a star and even if they do become a star it will take a few years of development to get them there. No one in this draft is generational, so I expect that player to take 3-4 years to become a star if they even become one at all. Only generational players become stars within their first 2 years or so of being in the league. I don’t know, all of this just feels like people wanting to complain and be mad just to be mad.

I don't think anyone genuinely hates the move, I'm not a fan of it overall, but I'm more positive on it, compared to the Jak trade. I think it will result in a net positive outcome in the short term, but the teams long term success is still almost entirely dependent on the upcoming draft pick. And if that is still the case, then that is just proof that we weren't ready for a trade like this.

I do not think that BI is any way a star level player, he's in that Siakam tier of player where they are very good, but in no way a star that can lead a team to anything meaningful. The best he's ever done is 24.7/5.5/5.8 on above average efficiency, for 45 games, that does not fit into the star category IMO.

You can say it just seems like being mad just to be mad, but you can flip that around as well. People being in support of it are in support of it just cause they don't want another losing season, not cause they think it's actually a good move for the franchise long term.

Anyways, we need to get this back on topic about Scottie like I tried to with my last post before I get a ban for being negative. All in all, better team short term, should be interesting to see how him and Scottie fit together which I think is probably going to be a good fit. I still think RJ needs to be moved for both cost and fit reasons, but next season should definitely be a better watch than this season, and I suspect Scottie will bounce back to have a better year, assuming we run more of the scoring through BI first and Scottie second.

Scottie isn't cut out to be a 1st option on offence, and BI should help alleviate that problem.

[ArthurVandelay]

Like a very good version of Draymond is what Scottie’s best role is imo. Do it all everything and cover on defense while the real offensive stars do the heavy lifting. Like he can certainly change that narrative someday but it’s going to take a monster offseason of improvement which we haven’t seen quite yet.

I think any comparison to Draymond is poor imo.

Draymond's best scoring season was 14ppg in his 4th season when he was 25 years old. Besides that season he has never averaged over 12ppg. He's only averaged double figures 4 of 13 seasons. He hasn't averaged double digits scoring in 7 seasons.

I think everyone agrees Scottie is not a first option/superstar scorer but there is a very, very, VERY large gap between Scottie and Draymond.

Scottie is going to be a nightly 20 point triple double threat with good to great defense. This isn't directed at you Basketball_Jones, but people need to appreciate what Scottie is versus what they wish the Raptors had, imo.

[Basketball_Jones]

Like a very good version of Draymond is what Scottie’s best role is imo. Do it all everything and cover on defense while the real offensive stars do the heavy lifting. Like he can certainly change that narrative someday but it’s going to take a monster offseason of improvement which we haven’t seen quite yet.

I think any comparison to Draymond is poor imo.

Draymond's best scoring season was 14ppg in his 4th season when he was 25 years old. Besides that season he has never averaged over 12ppg. He's only averaged double figures 4 of 13 seasons. He hasn't averaged double digits scoring in 7 seasons.

I think everyone agrees Scottie is not a first option/superstar scorer but there is a very, very, VERY large gap between Scottie and Draymond.

Scottie is going to be a nightly 20 point triple double threat with good to great defense. This isn't directed at you Basketball_Jones, but people need to appreciate what Scottie is versus what they wish the Raptors had, imo.

Okay instead of Very good version of Draymond how about. Super goku version of him? Lol. It was more his role and type of player rather then his level/caliber. I agree Scottie is a much better all around player.

[Scase]

Like a very good version of Draymond is what Scottie’s best role is imo. Do it all everything and cover on defense while the real offensive stars do the heavy lifting. Like he can certainly change that narrative someday but it’s going to take a monster offseason of improvement which we haven’t seen quite yet.

I think any comparison to Draymond is poor imo.

Draymond's best scoring season was 14ppg in his 4th season when he was 25 years old. Besides that season he has never averaged over 12ppg. He's only averaged double figures 4 of 13 seasons. He hasn't averaged double digits scoring in 7 seasons.

I think everyone agrees Scottie is not a first option/superstar scorer but there is a very, very, VERY large gap between Scottie and Draymond.

Scottie is going to be a nightly 20 point triple double threat with good to great defense. This isn't directed at you Basketball_Jones, but people need to appreciate what Scottie is versus what they wish the Raptors had, imo.

Okay instead of Very good version of Draymond how about. Super goku version of him? Lol. It was more his role and type of player rather then his level/caliber. I agree Scottie is a much better all around player.

As much as I hate Draymond the person, he is still a HoF player, and he is an exceptional defensive player. A level that Scottie likely never reaches, Draymond was the defensive anchor for multiple championship teams.

If Scottie manages that career, we are laughing. But let's be honest here, he's likely a more offensively productive version, with worse defence. Definitely not a bad thing, but I don't think there is some massive gap between Scottie and a future first ballot HoFer lol.

[dTox]

Read on Twitter