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Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#501 » by Jay_Hawk » Tue Aug 2, 2011 5:02 pm

DG88 wrote:Things are getting uglier
NEW YORK (AP) -- The NBA has filed an unfair labor practice charge and a federal lawsuit against the NBA Players Association, accusing the players of failing to bargain "in good faith" and of "impermissible pressure tactics" in labor talks.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/08/02/nba- ... index.html


The lawsuit was filed in federal district court in New York. It asks the court to declare the NBA lockout does not break antitrust laws. The NBA also says it wants to void existing player contracts if the NBPA sheds its union status


Void existing player contracts? That could lead to two things: the greatest FA class ever, or the real-life 2K franchise fantasy draft I've been longing for.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#502 » by ReggieSlater » Tue Aug 2, 2011 5:58 pm

If they void contracts would teams still retain rights to their players? If not that would just be insane. I doubt players would have much loyalty to their teams after an ugly labor negotiation period. I wonder if TOR would have an above average chance at targeting FAs.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#503 » by Mos Def » Tue Aug 2, 2011 6:28 pm

Here's a good article about the NHL Lockout 7 years ago and how it relates to the NBA's situation.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... ef:nbahpt1

"Obviously they're very difference scenarios," said veteran hockey writer Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "I look back and I understand why [the NHL] did it at the time, but now everything's back to where it was financially, with some major issues.

"So whereas before, I couldn't see how the league could afford to ever lock out again, now I don't see how they're not going to lock out again."

Wait, what?

"Another lockout. Oh yeah," columnist Damien Cox of the Toronto Star wrote in May. "Unthinkable? They'd never do it again? Think again. ... The league didn't get its 'idiot-proof' CBA; therefore, it must try again."

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The lockout to end all lockouts was supposed to do just that -- improve the financial health of the NHL's 30 franchises enough that everyone, from owners to players to fans, would benefit in a system that would last for years. By that, most people thought years, not just the six seasons to this point and a seventh to be played in the currently cash-crazed conditions of 2011-12.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#504 » by from24ft » Tue Aug 2, 2011 7:47 pm

Just when you thoughts things could not get any classier.



What a good example of bargaining in "good faith".

EDIT:

If this was a jeopardy question it would go like this.

"What can the league due to totally mess sup the landscape and mangle up all sense of order from gravity to direction? How can we make this more complicated beyond any sensible ability to put it together, Alex?"


This is a punitive response. There is nothing "good faith" about this, nor can a statement like this be taken as a sign of one side wanting to resolve the issue. It's like threatening to pull the table cloth at your Christmas Dinner. It shows that you are an irrational jerk, who is just interested in control and who is willing to inflict more harm by pouring gas on the flaming fire. I honestly don't understand how this would be be good for the negotiations, or even the league. What is wrong with Stern? Is this more, "I know where the bodies are hidden" talk?

(I think someone should kindly let Stern know that he should be considering giving more time to lawn bowling in the future.)
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#505 » by Parataxis » Tue Aug 2, 2011 7:59 pm

ReggieSlater wrote:If they void contracts would teams still retain rights to their players? If not that would just be insane. I doubt players would have much loyalty to their teams after an ugly labor negotiation period. I wonder if TOR would have an above average chance at targeting FAs.


Nah, if the players actually (as opposed to what the NFLPA did) decertify, then holding rights would consitute an anti-trust violation. At least at first. (In future, teams could include a 'no-compete' clause in the contracts, theoretically.)
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#506 » by from24ft » Tue Aug 2, 2011 8:07 pm

This will screw up the 30 teams in the union as much as it will screw the players. Is the munchkin feeling okay?


(or does he just want to show everyone how powerful he is?)


EDIT: The number one stipulation by NBAPA should be that no matter what happens in the next CBA. Stern is dismissed of his duties. I would make all future negotiations and agreements contingent on this basic premise. I think the man has made some questionable statements and I feel that he needs to be culled if future league harmony is to exist.


#1, demand by the NBAPA, should be for a new commissioner. I would not come back to the table unless this guy is shown the door by the owners. My opinion of course, but I think the NBAPA is in a great position to turf this thug. They are going to get ripped on the next deal anyway, might as well pop this pimple while they are at it.

EDIT2: It's quite simple really, don't come back to the table until a new commissioner is appointed.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#507 » by Harry Palmer » Tue Aug 2, 2011 11:09 pm

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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#508 » by distracted » Wed Aug 3, 2011 1:09 am

Does anyone understand why Jimmer is named in the suit?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#509 » by ronleroy » Wed Aug 3, 2011 4:08 am

because he lives in new york, and they are filing the case in new york.

I don't watch football, did those guys become free agents or not after decertification?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#510 » by distracted » Wed Aug 3, 2011 12:29 pm

ronleroy wrote:because he lives in new york, and they are filing the case in new york.

I don't watch football, did those guys become free agents or not after decertification?


That's nice that he lives in NY, but he doesn't have an NBA contract. Is he even a member of the union?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#511 » by Fairview4Life » Wed Aug 3, 2011 12:39 pm

distracted wrote:
ronleroy wrote:because he lives in new york, and they are filing the case in new york.

I don't watch football, did those guys become free agents or not after decertification?


That's nice that he lives in NY, but he doesn't have an NBA contract. Is he even a member of the union?


They specifically included them because they weren't signed and lived in NY. I haven't looked into why, but there's a reason.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#512 » by distracted » Wed Aug 3, 2011 1:10 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:They specifically included them because they weren't signed and lived in NY. I haven't looked into why, but there's a reason.


Yeah I read that too...I was wondering the reason :)

It just doesn't make any sense to me why a person who has never had an NBA contract can be included. Wouldn't that also include everyone playing down at Rucker Park?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#513 » by Fairview4Life » Wed Aug 3, 2011 2:06 pm

Draft rights.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#514 » by distracted » Wed Aug 3, 2011 2:12 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:Draft rights.


He doesn't own his own draft rights though. The NBA should be suing itself in that case.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#515 » by from24ft » Thu Aug 4, 2011 7:02 am

Jimmer you bastard, your ways have cost the owners untold millions, you will not hide so easily, the NBA will leave no stone un-turned.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#516 » by from24ft » Thu Aug 4, 2011 7:22 am

http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/201 ... y-cut-espn

David Stern Takes A Lockout Pay Cut, And The B.S. Express Rolls On

LAS VEGAS - JULY 12: NBA Commissioner David Stern addresses the media during a press conference following the board of governors meetings at NBA Summer League on July 12, 2010 at the Palms Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada.

David Stern has been on a public relations blitz during the NBA lockout, and he's doing it all free of charge. But look a little bit closer, and the picture gets a lot more complicated. Plus: Remembering Korey Stringer, early reviews for "Watch the Throne", and more.


Aug 3, 2011 - David Stern has been in the news all week. On Monday we found out that he makes as much as $23 million-a-year as NBA commissioner. On Tuesday, he announced a lawsuit against against the Players Association and appeared on ESPN. And Wednesday's big news tells us that contrary to earlier reports, Stern won't be taking a salary during the NBA Lockout.

All of which clouds the issue. Of course David Stern's not taking a salary during the NBA lockout. The owners won't be generating any money, and the players won't be getting paid, either. How is it news that David Stern would choose not to get paid?

It'd only be relevant if he still tried to collect his eight figures. While we're talking about salary, though... Something Stern said on Tuesday afternoon struck a chord.

During an interview with Jay Harris on ESPN, Stern explained that the economy's changed, and the system needs to change, too. "Since the players get 57 percent of every dollar and we've seen their salaries go from $250,000-a-year to $5.2 million... I actually take some pride in that, because that meant that the revenues were growing, and we could be in a position to see players making that much money. But it's time for a reset, and we don't think the union is ready for that reset."

First off all, the figures he mentions are confusing. The average salary at the start of the last lockout (in '97-98) was $2 million, which is slightly different than salaries ballooning at a 95% rate. More importantly, what Stern forgets to mention is that while players got paid more, so did he.

We have to go back to 1990 to put this in perspective. Back then, players made an average of $860,000, and Stern made $3 million-per-year (more than all three other major sports commissioners combined, according to the New York Times). And now his salary's jumped to somewhere $15 million between $23 million, depending on which reporters you believe.

So while individual players are getting paid $4 million more thanks to inflation over the long term, David Stern's making between $12 to $20 million more than he did in 1990. Not necessarily some grand inequality, but a perfect example of Stern's selective reporting.

If you were to hear that David Stern's annual salary has grown by $20 million over the past 20 years, you might conclude that NBA's been growing steadily, and everyone's getting rich. You might not blame the players when you they're salaries have grown by $4 million. And if everyone's getting rich individually, but teams are losing money, you might think that's a problem that should be solved among the teams.

You won't do any of that, though, because you'll never hear anything like the truth from David Stern and the owners, as they try to take us all for a ride on the "bull Express."

Tuesday was just the latest example of a dichotomy between numbers and truth that hangs over this lockout. No matter how many out-of-context statistics it takes to make his case, David Stern's job is to paint the players as greedy and unreasonable, and make himself and the owners look like innocent victims. He's good at it, too. Did you hear he's working for free?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#517 » by Indeed » Thu Aug 4, 2011 12:48 pm

from24ft wrote:http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/2011/8/3/2342220/david-stern-nba-lockout-pay-cut-espn

David Stern Takes A Lockout Pay Cut, And The B.S. Express Rolls On

LAS VEGAS - JULY 12: NBA Commissioner David Stern addresses the media during a press conference following the board of governors meetings at NBA Summer League on July 12, 2010 at the Palms Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada.

David Stern has been on a public relations blitz during the NBA lockout, and he's doing it all free of charge. But look a little bit closer, and the picture gets a lot more complicated. Plus: Remembering Korey Stringer, early reviews for "Watch the Throne", and more.


Aug 3, 2011 - David Stern has been in the news all week. On Monday we found out that he makes as much as $23 million-a-year as NBA commissioner. On Tuesday, he announced a lawsuit against against the Players Association and appeared on ESPN. And Wednesday's big news tells us that contrary to earlier reports, Stern won't be taking a salary during the NBA Lockout.

All of which clouds the issue. Of course David Stern's not taking a salary during the NBA lockout. The owners won't be generating any money, and the players won't be getting paid, either. How is it news that David Stern would choose not to get paid?

It'd only be relevant if he still tried to collect his eight figures. While we're talking about salary, though... Something Stern said on Tuesday afternoon struck a chord.

During an interview with Jay Harris on ESPN, Stern explained that the economy's changed, and the system needs to change, too. "Since the players get 57 percent of every dollar and we've seen their salaries go from $250,000-a-year to $5.2 million... I actually take some pride in that, because that meant that the revenues were growing, and we could be in a position to see players making that much money. But it's time for a reset, and we don't think the union is ready for that reset."

First off all, the figures he mentions are confusing. The average salary at the start of the last lockout (in '97-98) was $2 million, which is slightly different than salaries ballooning at a 95% rate. More importantly, what Stern forgets to mention is that while players got paid more, so did he.

We have to go back to 1990 to put this in perspective. Back then, players made an average of $860,000, and Stern made $3 million-per-year (more than all three other major sports commissioners combined, according to the New York Times). And now his salary's jumped to somewhere $15 million between $23 million, depending on which reporters you believe.

So while individual players are getting paid $4 million more thanks to inflation over the long term, David Stern's making between $12 to $20 million more than he did in 1990. Not necessarily some grand inequality, but a perfect example of Stern's selective reporting.

If you were to hear that David Stern's annual salary has grown by $20 million over the past 20 years, you might conclude that NBA's been growing steadily, and everyone's getting rich. You might not blame the players when you they're salaries have grown by $4 million. And if everyone's getting rich individually, but teams are losing money, you might think that's a problem that should be solved among the teams.

You won't do any of that, though, because you'll never hear anything like the truth from David Stern and the owners, as they try to take us all for a ride on the "bull Express."

Tuesday was just the latest example of a dichotomy between numbers and truth that hangs over this lockout. No matter how many out-of-context statistics it takes to make his case, David Stern's job is to paint the players as greedy and unreasonable, and make himself and the owners look like innocent victims. He's good at it, too. Did you hear he's working for free?



I think you can put this on the related thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1127974

Rich people are getting rich, not surprised. The worst thing is "Stern made $3 million-per-year (more than all three other major sports commissioners combined, according to the New York Times).". NBA is really a corrupted business. When someone can be in the job for 10 years, things like that will happen.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#518 » by DG88 » Thu Aug 4, 2011 4:43 pm

from24ft wrote:http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/2011/8/3/2342220/david-stern-nba-lockout-pay-cut-espn

David Stern Takes A Lockout Pay Cut, And The B.S. Express Rolls On

LAS VEGAS - JULY 12: NBA Commissioner David Stern addresses the media during a press conference following the board of governors meetings at NBA Summer League on July 12, 2010 at the Palms Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada.

David Stern has been on a public relations blitz during the NBA lockout, and he's doing it all free of charge. But look a little bit closer, and the picture gets a lot more complicated. Plus: Remembering Korey Stringer, early reviews for "Watch the Throne", and more.


Aug 3, 2011 - David Stern has been in the news all week. On Monday we found out that he makes as much as $23 million-a-year as NBA commissioner. On Tuesday, he announced a lawsuit against against the Players Association and appeared on ESPN. And Wednesday's big news tells us that contrary to earlier reports, Stern won't be taking a salary during the NBA Lockout.

All of which clouds the issue. Of course David Stern's not taking a salary during the NBA lockout. The owners won't be generating any money, and the players won't be getting paid, either. How is it news that David Stern would choose not to get paid?

It'd only be relevant if he still tried to collect his eight figures. While we're talking about salary, though... Something Stern said on Tuesday afternoon struck a chord.

During an interview with Jay Harris on ESPN, Stern explained that the economy's changed, and the system needs to change, too. "Since the players get 57 percent of every dollar and we've seen their salaries go from $250,000-a-year to $5.2 million... I actually take some pride in that, because that meant that the revenues were growing, and we could be in a position to see players making that much money. But it's time for a reset, and we don't think the union is ready for that reset."

First off all, the figures he mentions are confusing. The average salary at the start of the last lockout (in '97-98) was $2 million, which is slightly different than salaries ballooning at a 95% rate. More importantly, what Stern forgets to mention is that while players got paid more, so did he.

We have to go back to 1990 to put this in perspective. Back then, players made an average of $860,000, and Stern made $3 million-per-year (more than all three other major sports commissioners combined, according to the New York Times). And now his salary's jumped to somewhere $15 million between $23 million, depending on which reporters you believe.

So while individual players are getting paid $4 million more thanks to inflation over the long term, David Stern's making between $12 to $20 million more than he did in 1990. Not necessarily some grand inequality, but a perfect example of Stern's selective reporting.

If you were to hear that David Stern's annual salary has grown by $20 million over the past 20 years, you might conclude that NBA's been growing steadily, and everyone's getting rich. You might not blame the players when you they're salaries have grown by $4 million. And if everyone's getting rich individually, but teams are losing money, you might think that's a problem that should be solved among the teams.

You won't do any of that, though, because you'll never hear anything like the truth from David Stern and the owners, as they try to take us all for a ride on the "bull Express."

Tuesday was just the latest example of a dichotomy between numbers and truth that hangs over this lockout. No matter how many out-of-context statistics it takes to make his case, David Stern's job is to paint the players as greedy and unreasonable, and make himself and the owners look like innocent victims. He's good at it, too. Did you hear he's working for free?

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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#519 » by Laowai » Fri Aug 5, 2011 2:38 am

Right now the lock-out on both sides are about who's Johnson's are bigger.
The reality is that this will be resolved not by the the NBA superstars and the Elite Teams.
But the average NBA player and majority of teams that are hurting.
Look for a hard cap tied with increases tied revenue increases it really is the only way this will be settled.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#520 » by Parataxis » Fri Aug 5, 2011 4:06 am

Well, the Raps have about 455 lbs of Johnson, so we're looking pretty good.

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