OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[13th Man]

Masking and social distancing works to lower flu numbers in addition to covid.

Social distancing yes. Masks, no for the most part. Not the masks that most people wear which are medical grade or cloth. The only masks that are really effective against covid and influenza are N95 masks.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

After reading this, I believe that unless they are N95 grade, masks do more harm than good. I've always suspected this to be true and all of the studies from the link just confirms it.

The curation of that 'mask-facts' article is highly suspect and some of the points aren't even related to a lot of points around covid.

Add on the that curator is the same person who is writing this blog.
https://marilynsingletonmdjd.com/2020/10/12/off-the-record-with-dr-adams-4/

Who actually refers to the virus as the Wuhan virus.

So credibility of the link you provided and that 'doctor' is pretty low to start.

But are the facts presented refutable? If the facts are bunk then you may have a case. I didn't see him inject any of his personal opinion into the article, just citing facts from all different types of studies.

[13th Man]

Masking and social distancing works to lower flu numbers in addition to covid.

Social distancing yes. Masks, no for the most part. Not the masks that most people wear which are medical grade or cloth. The only masks that are really effective against covid and influenza are N95 masks.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

After reading this, I believe that unless they are N95 grade, masks do more harm than good. I've always suspected this to be true and all of the studies from the link just confirms it.

This OPINION is very politically charged. The blogger sounds like a Trump supporter by the looks of her other blog...and that is all you need to know about her views on "science".

The mere fact that the mask limits propulsion of droplets especially in indoor spaces, that may contain covid and or influenza is enough of a reason to wear it.

All I see are facts from studies, not much opinion if any.

[mtcan]

Social distancing yes. Masks, no for the most part. Not the masks that most people wear which are medical grade or cloth. The only masks that are really effective against covid and influenza are N95 masks.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

After reading this, I believe that unless they are N95 grade, masks do more harm than good. I've always suspected this to be true and all of the studies from the link just confirms it.

This OPINION is very politically charged. The blogger sounds like a Trump supporter by the looks of her other blog...and that is all you need to know about her views on "science".

The mere fact that the mask limits propulsion of droplets especially in indoor spaces, that may contain covid and or influenza is enough of a reason to wear it.

All I see are facts from studies, not much opinion if any.

"Facts" can be spun in different ways. No one is disputing that an N95 mask offers ultimate protection. But the point of other masks is to limit propulsion of virus droplets into the air. It isnt 100% effective but if everyone does it...it can lower risk of transmission. That is really the point of everyone wearing the masks. Masks that aren't N95 are not useless.

[Duffman100]

Social distancing yes. Masks, no for the most part. Not the masks that most people wear which are medical grade or cloth. The only masks that are really effective against covid and influenza are N95 masks.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

After reading this, I believe that unless they are N95 grade, masks do more harm than good. I've always suspected this to be true and all of the studies from the link just confirms it.

The curation of that 'mask-facts' article is highly suspect and some of the points aren't even related to a lot of points around covid.

Add on the that curator is the same person who is writing this blog.
https://marilynsingletonmdjd.com/2020/10/12/off-the-record-with-dr-adams-4/

Who actually refers to the virus as the Wuhan virus.

So credibility of the link you provided and that 'doctor' is pretty low to start.

But are the facts presented refutable? If the facts are bunk then you may have a case. I didn't see him inject any of his personal opinion into the article, just citing facts from all different types of studies.

Sure there are facts from studies (whether those studies have been peer reviewed I'm not sure).

But the curation and conclusions taken from assembling the facts is suspect and highly subjective. It took me 5 minutes with a slight critical eye to point out a few holes.

If I wasn't at my full time job, I could go section by section and point out logic errors that someone without a medical degree shouldn't be able to point out.

If you look at her blog, her language. The unprofessionalism and clear slant of her views already makes her a suspect source.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Social distancing yes. Masks, no for the most part. Not the masks that most people wear which are medical grade or cloth. The only masks that are really effective against covid and influenza are N95 masks.

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

After reading this, I believe that unless they are N95 grade, masks do more harm than good. I've always suspected this to be true and all of the studies from the link just confirms it.

This OPINION is very politically charged. The blogger sounds like a Trump supporter by the looks of her other blog...and that is all you need to know about her views on "science".

The mere fact that the mask limits propulsion of droplets especially in indoor spaces, that may contain covid and or influenza is enough of a reason to wear it.

All I see are facts from studies, not much opinion if any.

intentional omission of facts isn't scientific. this is just an opinion piece framed in a way to support not wearing masks.

[ItsDanger]

Go look at OSHA pre 2020 if you want details on masks.

[13th Man]

Go look at OSHA pre 2020 if you want details on masks.

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

[Hero]

Current Ontario hospitalizations in last 4 days: 206, 225, 213, 217
Active cases: 5442,5662, 5754, 5697

That's about 3.8% hospitalization rate. Early, August was roughly 5%. Early July was 7.5%. Early June was 17-20%. Absolute hospital numbers were higher than current. The increase in number of tests does not explain the difference.

This is also the normal influenza season where hospitalizations would normally increase congruently. Need more detail but next 10 days or so will be very telling on the consistency of the data from early spring. Right now, there is a clear trend away from spring pattern.

This is a pattern pretty much across the world. This second wave is much less severe in terms of both hospitalization and death rates. I think the most likely reason is a different age mix of people getting it this time, with the nursing home being better secured and older people continuing to take more precautions than younger people. I believe the death rate among hospitalized patients has also decreased significantly since the spring, again around the world. Treatment has steadily improved even without any single drug being a dominant factor.

I think it makes sense for authorities to consider both hospitalization rates as well overall case count. It's called public health for a reason. We need to consider all the aspects when deciding what to shut down and what to keep open.

[NBA Sheady]

From everything I've read about masks and the studies I've actually dug into there is a high level of protection with simple cloth/cotton masks so long as all parties are wearing them.

Around Dundas and Dovercourt where I live only about 5% of the population are wearing any kind of mask so I'm now making a point to wear nothing but KN95 masks.

It should be noted that many N95 masks have an exhaust port so they only protect the wearer.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Go look at OSHA pre 2020 if you want details on masks.

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

[13th Man]

Go look at OSHA pre 2020 if you want details on masks.

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine. Denouncing it as blatantly false has no merit to me without any substance to back that up. I'm basing my opinion on facts from the various studies out there.

Yes, people are hysteric when it comes to mask wearing I have witnessed this myself and from videos online. Forgot to put on my mask one time from the car and people acted as if I was a walking nuclear bomb.

[mtcan]

Go look at OSHA pre 2020 if you want details on masks.

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

Yup. Have been wearing a mask everyday at work along with everyone else who is allowed into the hospital since March. I can confirm...no one suddenly dropping due to lack of oxygen and no increase in bacterial pneumonia in 7 months and counting.

The only time the mask comes off is when eating lunch...so for 15 minutes of the work day.

[mtcan]

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine. Denouncing it as blatantly false has no merit to me without any substance to back that up. I'm basing my opinion on facts from the various studies out there.

Yes, people are hysteric when it comes to mask wearing I have witnessed this myself and from videos online. Forgot to put on my mask one time from the car and people acted as if I was a walking nuclear bomb.

Sure...only the studies that support your predetermined conclusion. That isn't how science works.

[NBA Sheady]

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine.

You're actually not free to share opinions that could endanger the public and people have had posts deleted by mods because of it.

[13th Man]

statements like this are just blatantly false.



I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine.

You're actually not free to share opinions that could endanger the public and people have had posts deleted by mods because of it.

I'm still free to having an opinion that is based on studies, censorship cannot take that from me.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Yep. Not saying that masks are totally ineffective but unless they are N95 grade, they could be doing more harm than good.

statements like this are just blatantly false.

The level of hysteria that we see from the general public regarding mask wearing is a bit amusing or sad to me. People would freak out at anyone removing their masks 10ft away and even outdoors while they continue to improperly use their cloth masks while restricting their oxygen intake and recycling the bacteria from the mask.

I find statements like 'restricting oxygen' and 'recycling bacteria' to be amusing while denouncing the 'hysteria' of wearing them.

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine. Denouncing it as blatantly false has no merit to me without any substance to back that up. I'm basing my opinion on facts from the various studies out there.

cherry picked facts that solely focus on protecting the wearer of the mask. there are lots of peer reviewed studies with facts in regards to protecting others when wearing a mask, but cherry pick away to support your opinion.

Yes, people are hysteric when it comes to mask wearing I have witnessed this myself and from videos online. Forgot to put on my mask one time from the car and people acted as if I was a walking nuclear bomb.

were they hysterical because their O2 was so low and all of that recycled bacteria?

[mtcan]

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine.

You're actually not free to share opinions that could endanger the public and people have had posts deleted by mods because of it.

I'm still free to having an opinion that is based on studies, censorship cannot take that from me.

If the president of the United States can have dangerous posts deleted from Twitter and Facebook...don't think you are any more special.

[13th Man]

You're actually not free to share opinions that could endanger the public and people have had posts deleted by mods because of it.

I'm still free to having an opinion that is based on studies, censorship cannot take that from me.

If the president of the United States can have dangerous posts deleted from Twitter and Facebook...don't think you are any more special.

And Twitter and Facebook are not left leaning and biased? ok.

[NBA Sheady]

You're free to your opinion and I'm free to mine.

You're actually not free to share opinions that could endanger the public and people have had posts deleted by mods because of it.

I'm still free to having an opinion that is based on studies, censorship cannot take that from me.

You're welcome to all the opinions you want. You just can't express any here that would endanger the community.

Duff responded to your post and he could have easily just deleted it.

BTW that is not censorship.

The term censorship has been co-opted by the right so that you guys can claim to be 'victims'. It's such a common thing in right-wing propaganda that University Prof's have written papers about it. So I'm not surprised your 'source' outed themselves as racist.

[mtcan]

I'm still free to having an opinion that is based on studies, censorship cannot take that from me.

If the president of the United States can have dangerous posts deleted from Twitter and Facebook...don't think you are any more special.

And Twitter is not biased? ok.

Once again...your rights mean **** when you are spreading bad information.