Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[JN]

Absolutely outstanding set of games tonight for both the fan who enjoys more of the prospect aspect of the NCAA and those who enjoy the game itself. Great rivalries, good teams, good prospects -- you will not find any other day this year with three games that fit those criteria as well as tonight, and that includes the NCAA tournament (even without UK playing)

#2 Syracuse - #11 Georgetown (7:00): A very good rivalr (once a great one) that will have a nostalgic feel to it in the broadcast tonight. With the Syracuse departure to the ACC most likely starting next year, its not certain if the rivalary will continue. (similar to Kansas Missouri). Syracuse is #2 in the country, Georgetown may be one of the more surprising teams at #11. Syracuse has alot of second tier NBA draft talent, Georgetown not so much. They get by more on system, hard work, and not next level talent.

Draft Express Rankings
2012 #25 - Dion Waiters (SU)
2012 #38 - Kris Joseph (SU)
2012 #52 - Hollis Thompson (GT)
2013 #18 - Fab Melo (SU)

Georgetown has an unheralded freshmen in Otto Porter that may work his way up through the draft rankings over the next few years.

#6 Kansas vs #7 Baylor

A great matchup -- two teams that are still in the chase for a #1 seed. The Big 12 has three very good teams this year. We all know the Baylor prospects, and the big Kansas prospect in Thomas Robinson (who is the top player of the candidate right now with Anthony Davis)

Prospects
2012 - #6 Thomas Robinson (kan)
2012 - #7 Perry Jones (Bay)
2012 - #13 Quincy Miller (Bay)
2012 - #34 Tyshawn Taylor (Kan) - redeeming himself as a senio
2012 - #49 Elijah Johnson (Kan)
2013 #48 - Jeff Withey (kansas) - He has really improved. I can see him being a late first rounder next year and having a lengthy NBA career as a useful scrub.

#10 Duke at #5 UNC - The best rivalry game in sports -- even though I tend to despise both programs, I inevitably end up cheering for UNC. Two teams that are also competing for a #1 seed. John Henson is a moron. Jimmy Dykes from ESPN may have put it best last night -- Anthony Davis gets alot of blocks because he is in good position -- John Henson gets alot of blocks because he is always out of position.

Prospects:
#4 - Harrison Barnes (UNC)
#8 - John Moron (UNC)
#9 - Tyler Zeller (UNC)
#17 - Kendall Marshall (UNC)
#18 - Austin Rivers (Duke)
#19 - Mason Plumlee (Duke)
2013 - #3 James Mcadoo (UNC)
2013 - #9 PJ Hariston (UNC)
2013 - #21 Reggie Bullock (UNC)
2013 - #28 Dexter Strickland (UNC)
2013 - #47 Andre Dawkins (Duke)
2013 - #56 Ryan Kelly (Duke)

Essentially the entire UNC rotation is a first round prospect.

ENJOY THE GAMES

[Brinbe]

Awesome write-up, JN. Much-appreciated!

[CunningLinguist]

About MKG, his size shouldn't be a concern, at worst he's 6'6 w/ shoes, but bwt 6'6 to 6'7, that is a legit SF size. He also plays bigger than his size cos of his aggressive power SF style but good thing is he doesn't have t-rex arms and right now yes he is abit skinny but he's known for being a gym rat. He practically gets to the gym early in the morning to workout/practice, with NBA-level training workout I can see his body changes tremendously in offseason or a year or two especially he plays such an aggressive style its hard not to see training staff wants him to get bigger.

I do have concern about his offense. But he seems like he can find other ways to score, mostly from transition I know, but half court, he just knows ways to draw foul (attacking the lane, getting offensive rebound and go up again and draw fouls)....that's why he will have to bulk up. He doesn't really engage to score prolly of his unselfishness but when he sees opportunities he will attack. And he has shown an NBA move quite often, not alot of them but when he drives into the lane, his hands are high up with two power dribbles going up like Dwade does. That move is pretty legit cos its unlikely he gets stripped. I'm not sure if baby hook is gonna work in the nba, he uses that over smaller defenders...but I just see him having Gerald Wallace type of offense, slash and attack when he sees tiny opening. I know y'all want a legit go-to-scorer, but we do have bargs as primary option, and pray demar to improve everything, so MKG can be 2nd or 3rd option I don't see a big problem with that cos MKG does so much more than just scoring anyways.

And being wear and tear from being so aggressive on the floor, that's part of his game, injuries are unpredictable, even some guys out there who doesn't play as hard or being aggressive will still get injuries. That part of his game is making huge impact on the court, so its a risk and gamble but if you want an impact player, there have to be sacrifices. Some might stay injury-free, look at Iggy he was an iron man for first 5-6 years.

But what if the usual bumps and bruises that come with playing a full NBA season prevent him from playing with the same energy. There goes a huge part of his competitive advantage.

[fredericklove]

I guess I'll be watching Raps at 7 then UNC at 9. Perhaps I'll tune in on Baylor late tonight to see the nonexistent greatness of PJ3 in 2nd half, I bet Steely will come in tonight to glorify his PJ3 love fest. Nice to see what he'll have to say, he's just one tiny step closer to getting banned lol.

[JN]

PJ3 circle jerk at 7 involving Steely and the voices in his head.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

As I've mentioned before, it's not so much about MKG being small but that LeBron, Durant, Melo, Gallo, Gay and Paul George are huge. If you're drafting MKG to be a premier defender and he can't guard these guys, his value takes a big hit. Guarding SGs is not a high priority these days, nor will they be for the foreseeable future, and if you put him on PGs you'll wreck his knees.

Back in the plus column, I'm still really impressed by his pace with the ball. That takes him from being just a wing runner to a catalyst, a creator of sorts which could offset some halfcourt weakness. If you can change the game to your style for a possession by grabbing a board/TO and taking off then you're not costing the team or demanding anything, only helping. Running like that is part of a balanced offense. He just needs to avoid being a liability in the half court, and I don't think he's that bad.

[fredericklove]

PJ3 circle jerk at 7 involving Steely and the voices in his head.

and calling us all parrots again tonight, and idiotically reminds us the media tells us who to like (that one cracks me up), it's always fun to see a an immature rude poster going pope on us trolling is a hell of a drug i guess.

[CunningLinguist]

As I've mentioned before, it's not so much about MKG being small but that LeBron, Durant, Melo, Gallo, Gay and Paul George are huge. If you're drafting MKG to be a premier defender and he can't guard these guys, his value takes a big hit. Guarding SGs is not a high priority these days, nor will they be for the foreseeable future, and if you put him on PGs you'll wreck his knees.

Back in the plus column, I'm still really impressed by his pace with the ball. That takes him from being just a wing runner to a catalyst, a creator of sorts which could offset some halfcourt weakness. If you can change the game to your style for a possession by grabbing a board/TO and taking off then you're not costing the team or demanding anything, only helping. Running like that is part of a balanced offense. He just needs to avoid being a liability in the half court, and I don't think he's that bad.

I would actually use him as a point forward to act as a facilitator.

In regard to his size, I think it also limits his potential as a post player on offense.

[fredericklove]

To be honest, who the hell can guard Lebron, Durant and Melo anyways. I still see MKG holding his own against other 3 tho.

[Tough Tony D]

"For me its definetly Beal. Taller, better athlete, better defender, better rebounder, better FT shooter. Almost 1 full year younger. (Rivers is aug. 1 1992, Beal is June 28 1993)"

Beal isnt taller than Rivers. At 2011 skills academy, Rivers measured 6'5 in shoes w/ 6'7 wingspan.
Beal has same wingspan but only measured 6'3.5 in shoes

I agree Beal is not taller, but his arms are so much longer than River's t-rex arms and Beal plays bigger than his size too. River might have more offensive production, however Beal will have better all around game imo.

Well, I haven't seen them next to each other and went by Espn's the measurements seem to vary alot up until the Chicago pre draft camp. I don't put too much value in them tho.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/re ... adley-beal

6'5


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/re ... tin-rivers

6'4

[FluLikeSymptoms]

To be honest, who the hell can guard Lebron, Durant and Melo anyways. I still see MKG holding his own against other 3 tho.

Fair enough, but how high do you want to draft a defense-first guy who can "hold his own" against 2nd tier SFs and only hope to be average in the half court on offense?

[Tough Tony D]

To be honest, who the hell can guard Lebron, Durant and Melo anyways. I still see MKG holding his own against other 3 tho.

Fair enough, but how high do you want to draft a defense-first guy who can "hold his own" against 2nd tier SFs and only hope to be average in the half court on offense?

He's a freshman, he's not perfect yet. A lot of room to grow, but incredible potential.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/02 ... ss&emc=rss

Kidd-Gilchrist scored 13 points and grabbed 13 rebounds, and Calipari said that the 18-year-old is similar to his brightest star at Memphis.

"He reminds me of Derrick Rose," Calipari said. "He's tougher on himself than I am on him. Like he came running over during the game and says to me, 'Coach, I'm sorry.' I said, 'Stop, just have fun and go play.'"

[sunny]

out of curiosity, can anyone share their potential/expectation-pick number relationship?

first 2 picks - potential
3-7: realistic expectations
8-20 - mix
20-60: potential

Not sure what you mean, do you mean like

1st pick - Franchise player
2-7 - Lower level/"David West" all-star
8-12 - Top 15 at their position starter
13-20 - Borderline starter
21-30 - Usable bench player

That's if I was picking. I have Barnes and MKG in the "top 15 starter" 8-12 group but it looks like they go 2-7 which mixes the brew somewhat. I think this is the best draft in years to be picking 9th or 10th. I believe there'll be multiple all-star talents on the board at that point. I have 9th in this year's draft as easily more valuable than 4th in last year's one. Cleveland would take this year's Lamb, Sullinger, Henson, Moultrie over last year's T Thompson without even thinking about it

This is something that 82games.com has discussed. Check out their draft pick success chart:

http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

I'll check it out. I was more so hinting at how your draft slot changes what you're looking for.
With the first pick are you looking for a superstar more so than other picks? or because the pick is so important, you need to select someone who is guaranteed to atleast contribute?
Similarly, if you have later pick, because its less important, you are more inclined to go for a home run with potential.

[Undefeated]

I've seen him have a lot of difficulty finishing in traffic, especially against size (see the St. John's game where Dieng stuffed him 3 times). I saw the play you mentioned, and it was the best move I've seen from him all year, but he relies a lot on spin moves, similar to Derozan, rather than breaking guys down off the dribble.

Finishing in traffic or his touch for the backboard isn't much of a problem considering how well he pounds the glass for the offensive rebound putback with usually two or three defenders jumping over his back and he still lays the ball in. He's shooting 52% on 2-point field goals, so that's some solid conversion rate at the rim. And that's better than guys like Harrison Barnes and Terrence Jones. He's had no problems putting the ball on the deck for two strong dribbles and going right at some of the big man prospects in his class like John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Cody Zeller and Patric Young while still finishing it over them. I just think with more room to operate in the lane at the NBA level, he'll show more of that dribble-drive game much like Harrison Barnes. He won't breakdown guys off the dribble taking multiple dribbles, but he'll use two or three dribbles with incredible protection of the ball and explode right to the rim for the dunk/lay-up. Breaking down the defense from the perimeter is all about being explosive and having a plan in mind. And by all accounts, MKG seems to have some pretty good decision-making.

[Marlo Stanfield]

For that MKG/Corey Brewer comparison... here are their stats with Corey Brewer as a Junior and MKG as a Freshman....

MKG - 31.3MPG, 12.6ppg, 7.8rpg, 2.2apg, 1.1blk, 1.2stl, 2.3TO, 0.479FG%, 0.289 3P%, 0.756FT%
Brew - 28.1MPG, 13.2ppg, 4.7rpg, 2.9apg, 0.4blk, 1.9stl, 2.5TO, 0.475FG%, 0.336 3P%, 0.723FT%

[sunny]

For that MKG/Corey Brewer comparison... here are their stats with Corey Brewer as a Junior and MKG as a Freshman....

MKG - 31.3MPG, 12.6ppg, 7.8rpg, 2.2apg, 1.1blk, 1.2stl, 2.3TO, 0.479FG%, 0.289 3P%, 0.756FT%
Brew - 28.1MPG, 13.2ppg, 4.7rpg, 2.9apg, 0.4blk, 1.9stl, 2.5TO, 0.475FG%, 0.336 3P%, 0.723FT%

pace pace pace
very different situations they were in.

[Marlo Stanfield]

It's still pretty obvious who's better just watching their games. Then again, Corey got a little derailed by that ACL tear. Still, he never took time to learn a jumper or expand his game in any way.

[fredericklove]

hey PJ3 in the first half - 2 pts, 1 reb, wussup with that???????? pffft, so if he can't get it on first half, then will he get it on in his notorious non-existent 2nd half?

[sunny]

In a listing published today of the most successful collegiate programs in terms of NBA salaries earned since 1985, Arizona ranks third nationally with more than $737 million in total earnings. That figure ranks behind only North Carolina ($852M) and Duke ($808M) Here are the top five schools:

Rnk School Earnings
1. North Carolina $852 million
2. Duke $808
3. ARIZONA $737
4. Georgetown $727
5. Michigan $715

[CunningLinguist]

hey PJ3 in the first half - 2 pts, 1 reb, wussup with that???????? pffft, so if he can't get it on first half, then will he get it on in his notorious non-existent 2nd half?

Now, now. He has 3 points. How dare you misrepresent the achievements of a once in a decade player.